How good can you get alone ?

[VeryStrongest]

Hey guys, a question who always interested me it's exactly how much can you improve in fighting by yourself without going to gym ? We all know those youtubers (sometimes even ex-pro for the last one I saw) who explain that you can get very good especially in striking, speed and condition by yourself without "normal" gym training, I even saw some argue about one being able to learn skills and become decent without going to gym. (Though obviously being limited about skills and how much you can improve)

Simply put I was wondering how much of the "Hard work always pay" can apply by yourself without a gym. Can you really become a decent or even competent/good fighter by following youtubes videos/training by yourself and without a proper coach/sparring -partner ?

What do you guys think ? Did any of you know someone who never got to a training in gym but is a decent/good fighter ?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Not that good. Biggest things are lack of instruction, and lack of feedback (both from an instructor, and from sparring). What you can do is maintain your skills alone, once you already have them, if you don't have access to a gym/dojo.

 

[VeryStrongest]

Not that good. Biggest things are lack of instruction, and lack of feedback (both from an instructor, and from sparring). What you can do is maintain your skills alone, once you already have them, if you don't have access to a gym/dojo.

I agree that pure skills and fighting technique is way too hard to have a proper lvl by yourself. That said what do you think about cardio/conditioning/striking strength / speed ? Those are all to an extent related to skills but I do think one can become very good at it without gym, I mean I already saw guys surprisingly fast and with powerfuls punchs without the skills comparable.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I already saw guys surprisingly fast and with powerfuls punchs without the skills comparable.

The human body is like 3 separate springs. Without training, each spring will be compressed and be released independently. No matter how good you may train yourself, if you don't understand the "body unification - all body parts move and stop at the same time", your progress will have limitation.

Simple test - ask a non-MA guy to do right punch and left kick at the same time.

Can he

- start his punch and kick at the same time?
- stop his punch and kick at the same time?
- generate power both on his punch and kick?
- remain good balance?
- have good flexibility?
- ...

 

[dvcochran]

I feel there is a huge void in this kind of training/thinking. I have to ask; what was the "ex-pro" supposedly a pro in? I am skeptical to say the least.

If the guy was an ex-pro, whatever, I suspect what they are saying is that someone who has Already had ample and quality training can practice effectively on their own.
Take shadow boxing for example. A staple of boxing training for endurance and mental acuity. BUT, it is done as a component of the whole training model. Another example is solo bag work. It can improve almost anyone but if continuously done ineffectively OR incorrectly it is counter productive and will set bad habits and cause premature injury.
The thing that is most paramount about training alone is not being hit back. Even if a person creates impacts to simulate punches/strikes (I had a Parkour guy try to make this argument) it is impossible for a person training alone to simulate all the dynamics of another person actually trying to strike you.

Youtube is great for things a person already knows and only needs verification/clarification on for the mechanics or movements. It cannot teach the how/why/when of a movement/skill from scratch.

Here is my hard rule when searching Youtube for information. I will Always watch at Least 6 videos (more it they are available)of the same thing. At least 1/2 of those will likely be flat out wrong or different from what I learned.
In other words, Youtube has about as much incorrect information as correct information. How is someone who knows little to nothing about the subject matter supposed to rely heavily on that kind of information?

A very, very bad idea. IMHO

EDIT: Welcome to the forum. Forgot to say that first.

 

[VeryStrongest]

The human body is like 3 separate springs. Without training, each spring will be compressed and be released independently. No matter how good you may train yourself, if you don't understand the "body unification - all body parts move and stop at the same time", your progress will have limitation.

That actually a very good point mate, and yeah I agree. Basically without the proper skills training to support/improve them the striking/speed training a guy may have without going to gym would be less effective than the potential he could have get if he was developing properly his skills ?

I feel there is a huge void in this kind of training/thinking. I have to ask; what was the "ex-pro" supposedly a pro in? I am skeptical to say the least.

If the guy was an ex-pro, whatever, I suspect what they are saying is that someone who has Already had ample and quality training can practice effectively on their own.
Take shadow boxing for example. A staple of boxing training for endurance and mental acuity. BUT, it is done as a component of the whole training model. Another example is solo bag work. It can improve almost anyone but if continuously done ineffectively OR incorrectly it is counter productive and will set bad habits and cause premature injury.
The thing that is most paramount about training alone is not being hit back. Even if a person creates impacts to simulate punches/strikes (I had a Parkour guy try to make this argument) it is impossible for a person training alone to simulate all the dynamics of another person actually trying to strike you.

Youtube is great for things a person already knows and only needs verification/clarification on for the mechanics or movements. It cannot teach the how/why/when of a movement/skill from scratch.

Here is my hard rule when searching Youtube for information. I will Always watch at Least 6 videos (more it they are available)of the same thing. At least 1/2 of those will likely be flat out wrong or different from what I learned.
In other words, Youtube has about as much incorrect information as correct information. How is someone who knows little to nothing about the subject matter supposed to rely heavily on that kind of information?

A very, very bad idea. IMHO

He is a ex- pro yeah in kick-boxing and some other sports , he is a well know french-youtuber who get around the world to fight people. He already got against José Aldo best students in sparring, and he was pretty impressive for a retired dude IMO (I never saw him fighting on his prime when he was a pro that said.)

What he said pretty much was that "with my training program you can get decent at home by yourself, though if you want to step up and reach some impressive lvl you would need a gym" But yeah I get what are you saying.

But the true question would be, how much a ex pro like him can teach about fighting with only videos/training program in some books ? Because the main problems with those videos it's that they can have the best explanation/training program in the world, the actual creator of the said training ins't there to correct you if you have the wrong stand, do the wrong move etc..

 

[Buka]

Welcome to martial Talk, VeryStrongest.

 

[VeryStrongest]

Welcome to martial Talk, VeryStrongest.

Thanks.

I feel there is a huge void in this kind of training/thinking. I have to ask; what was the "ex-pro" supposedly a pro in? I am skeptical to say the least.

If the guy was an ex-pro, whatever, I suspect what they are saying is that someone who has Already had ample and quality training can practice effectively on their own.
Take shadow boxing for example. A staple of boxing training for endurance and mental acuity. BUT, it is done as a component of the whole training model. Another example is solo bag work. It can improve almost anyone but if continuously done ineffectively OR incorrectly it is counter productive and will set bad habits and cause premature injury.
The thing that is most paramount about training alone is not being hit back. Even if a person creates impacts to simulate punches/strikes (I had a Parkour guy try to make this argument) it is impossible for a person training alone to simulate all the dynamics of another person actually trying to strike you.

Youtube is great for things a person already knows and only needs verification/clarification on for the mechanics or movements. It cannot teach the how/why/when of a movement/skill from scratch.

Here is my hard rule when searching Youtube for information. I will Always watch at Least 6 videos (more it they are available)of the same thing. At least 1/2 of those will likely be flat out wrong or different from what I learned.
In other words, Youtube has about as much incorrect information as correct information. How is someone who knows little to nothing about the subject matter supposed to rely heavily on that kind of information?

A very, very bad idea. IMHO

By the way here his wikipedia page:Abdellah Ezbiri - Wikipedia

So for a good as good as he was (he train various pro in different kind of sports actually) to say that you can get "competent" alone by following the proper program make me wonder, is he a liar (very doubtful) is he wrong or should we take under context his words ?

 

[dvcochran]

Thanks.




By the way here his wikipedia page:Abdellah Ezbiri - Wikipedia

So for a good as good as he was (he train various pro in different kind of sports actually) to say that you can get "competent" alone by following the proper program make me wonder, is he a liar (very doubtful) is he wrong or should we take under context his words ?

If you are training alone, how will you know what competent is? If just does not work that way. Can a person get more fit and learn some mechanics? Sure. But there will always be a huge void in the training.

 

[VeryStrongest]

If you are training alone, how will you know what competent is? If just does not work that way. Can a person get more fit and learn some mechanics? Sure. But there will always be a huge void in the training.

If this question was for me, I don't, I train boxing in club . If you are meaning on how can one know how good he is without sparring/opposition I get you. Anyway , how can a someone of that lvl think that in your opinion ? I am not saying he is right neither that he is wrong, I think sparring is a must for proper progress without mentionning the flaws of the "training alone via youtube video" method.

But what make me doutful about him might being right in any sense of the words it's the fact that not only he train world-known champion in different kind of sport and he is very well respected by the martial art community/sport in France.

I never trained with such method, but if some high pro-lvl people thing it's effective I guess it can be debated, despite how doubtful it is. All in all I agree that training in a gym proper way>>those methods, I think however the question is how good for improvement are those methods of solo training ?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I agree that pure skills and fighting technique is way too hard to have a proper lvl by yourself. That said what do you think about cardio/conditioning/striking strength / speed ? Those are all to an extent related to skills but I do think one can become very good at it without gym, I mean I already saw guys surprisingly fast and with powerfuls punchs without the skills comparable.

Cardio and conditioning sure. But striking strength and speed is based on technique, so unless you're just naturally skilled at it you won't be very good at it if you don't train with people. And you won't know if you're good/naturally skilled at it unless you're training with competent people or getting in fights.

 

[VeryStrongest]

Cardio and conditioning sure. But striking strength and speed is based on technique, so unless you're just naturally skilled at it you won't be very good at it if you don't train with people. And you won't know if you're good/naturally skilled at it unless you're training with competent people or getting in fights.

I can see your point. So do you think I guy training striking strength via elastic-bands very often won't be able to become a decent/competent striker like this guy his saying ? I mean many people claim how great elastic-band/weight punch training very often by yourself can improve your speed/striking , but I wonder how this apply to people who don't have the proper "basic" training (proper guard footwork etc) as us who have and must learn everything from this kind of videos.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What he said pretty much was that "with my training program you can get decent at home by yourself, though if you want to step up and reach some impressive lvl you would need a gym" But yeah I get what are you saying.

But the true question would be, how much a ex pro like him can teach about fighting with only videos/training program in some books ? Because the main problems with those videos it's that they can have the best explanation/training program in the world, the actual creator of the said training ins't there to correct you if you have the wrong stand, do the wrong move etc..

I haven't watched the video, but something to keep in mind here-he has a motivation to convince you that you can learn at home. Mainly if you believe him, you're more likely to buy his program, which he wants you to do. If he came out and said that he doesn't think it's effective, then that would be really bad for business. Even with that, based on what you said, he's still saying what you can learn on your own is limited.

Now I don't know the dude. I don't know how much he needs money, how ethical of a guy he is, or if he really believes what he's saying. But plenty of people make programs, and say what they will to sell it.

 

[JR 137]

You really have to look at the person. Where they started, I guess...

Say there’s a guy who’s never learned anything about fighting before. Maybe he’s had a few “fights” in the playground, but that’s about it. Never thought about a proper punch, let alone tried to or had it taught to him. And he’s a desk guy at work and doesn’t do much of anything physically outside of work.

Watching a few videos and getting a punching bag (and using it) will make him better. Something is better than nothing. If he’s consistent, he’ll be in better shape, stronger, faster, and hitting harder.

Let’s say he’s got a knack for it and and with some work he actually does a respectable job working the bag. Working a bag doesn’t mean you can fight; it means you can work a bag. I used to hit the bag at my local YMCA. Quite often I got compliments. People would ask me if I competed in boxing, kickboxing, stuff like that. Some people said things like “I’d hate to have to fight you.” My answer was always the same - “The bag makes me look great. It doesn’t get out of the way and hit me back.”

Can you get better on your own? Sure, if you’re starting at nothing. If you can actually hold your own with realistically attackers after training on your own, you’re doing so in spite of training on your own, not really because of it. Although maybe you’ll develop a harder and faster punch that’ll end the fight that you wouldn’t have without the training. Something is better than nothing.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I can see your point. So do you think I guy training striking strength via elastic-bands very often won't be able to become a decent/competent striker like this guy his saying ? I mean many people claim how great elastic-band/weight punch training very often by yourself can improve your speed/striking , but I wonder how this apply to people who don't have the proper "basic" training (proper guard footwork etc) as us who have and must learn everything from this kind of videos.

Like I said in my most recent reply, i havent seen the video so i cant comment on what he's saying. But i think those things can absolutely help increase your strength, but it's not a replacement for those fundamentals, and without those (again unless you're a rare natural) you'll (general you, i know you said you do train) be severely lacking.

 

[VeryStrongest]

I haven't watched the video, but something to keep in mind here-he has a motivation to convince you that you can learn at home. Mainly if you believe him, you're more likely to buy his program, which he wants you to do. If he came out and said that he doesn't think it's effective, then that would be really bad for business. Even with that, based on what you said, he's still saying what you can learn on your own is limited.

Now I don't know the dude. I don't know how much he needs money, how ethical of a guy he is, or if he really believes what he's saying. But plenty of people make programs, and say what they will to sell it.

Yeah obviously I figured much, that said I don't think (via his reputation etc) that he is a "fraud" in the sense he want money etc, he his a very high-ranked coach for example he is one of those who trained massively Karim Benzema in his earliest day when he was still a fighter. But either way that doens't means we should take what he said word for word obviously, I make this thread in the first place because I was doubtful of his arguments.

As for the rest yeah he said pretty much that becoming a pro with that kind of training ins't possible, but becoming competent (I guess he mean at best amateur lvl) ins't out of idea.

 

[VeryStrongest]

You really have to look at the person. Where they started, I guess...

Say there’s a guy who’s never learned anything about fighting before. Maybe he’s had a few “fights” in the playground, but that’s about it. Never thought about a proper punch, let alone tried to or had it taught to him. And he’s a desk guy at work and doesn’t do much of anything physically outside of work.

Watching a few videos and getting a punching bag (and using it) will make him better. Something is better than nothing. If he’s consistent, he’ll be in better shape, stronger, faster, and hitting harder.

Let’s say he’s got a knack for it and and with some work he actually does a respectable job working the bag. Working a bag doesn’t mean you can fight; it means you can work a bag. I used to hit the bag at my local YMCA. Quite often I got compliments. People would ask me if I competed in boxing, kickboxing, stuff like that. Some people said things like “I’d hate to have to fight you.” My answer was always the same - “The bag makes me look great. It doesn’t get out of the way and hit me back.”

Can you get better on your own? Sure, if you’re starting at nothing. If you can actually hold your own with realistically attackers after training on your own, you’re doing so in spite of training on your own, not really because of it. Although maybe you’ll develop a harder and faster punch that’ll end the fight that you wouldn’t have without the training. Something is better than nothing.

Very interesting answer. I think you pretty much explained how far can those kind of "self training" get you when you don't have any other experience in gym. Now how much you can improve when you have already some experience (basics) is another question, and as far as the lvl change (amateur, pro ) it become a different question yet again I guess.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yeah obviously I figured much, that said I don't think (via his reputation etc) that he is a "fraud" in the sense he want money etc, he his a very high-ranked coach for example he is one of those who trained massively Karim Benzema in his earliest day when he was still a fighter. But either way that doens't means we should take what he said word for word obviously, I make this thread in the first place because I was doubtful of his arguments.

As for the rest yeah he said pretty much that becoming a pro with that kind of training ins't possible, but becoming competent (I guess he mean at best amateur lvl) ins't out of idea.

I reread what I wrote, and it's a bit stronger than I meant. I don't think he's a fraud. What I do think is that he can convince himself that what he's doing is for the good of the people who buy the program. Kind of like JR's response that something is better than nothing. So having that mindset, it's not fraudulent or unethical to sell it. Which makes it very easy to ignore the other arguments (you're taking away someone who may have gone to an actual gym, for instance, or people may have false confidence and be more likely to get into fights), even if you are a legitimate instructor.

And everyone wants money. Whether they got it or not, they want more. It just depends on what they're willing to do for it (and how fast they spend it).

 

[dvcochran]

I can see your point. So do you think I guy training striking strength via elastic-bands very often won't be able to become a decent/competent striker like this guy his saying ? I mean many people claim how great elastic-band/weight punch training very often by yourself can improve your speed/striking , but I wonder how this apply to people who don't have the proper "basic" training (proper guard footwork etc) as us who have and must learn everything from this kind of videos.

True, they will make you a better puncher/striker. But like I said earlier, bands do not punch back. And punching the air (or even a bag) does not give you truly real feedback.

 

[Flying Crane]

In my opinion, you need quality instruction, with an instructor face-to-face and hands-on.

However, with quality instruction you can make tremendous improvements through practice at home, by yourself. If you do not have people to work with outside of class, you can still get in quality practice.