How Effective Is Bodybuilding For Self Defence?

[JP3]

Pics or it didn't happen

Kuniggety you've outed me as a person who has no idea how to use the media embedding tools on MT. I would be pleased and proud to oblige, I just don't know how. Maybe this is a decent time to learn.

And just because they're squatting with weight doesn't mean they have to load up the weight like a power lifter would; they can use weight and reps just like every lift they're currently doing.

When I explained it that way, the girls who actually lifted incorporated it into their routine. And most of them actually liked it.

The dreaded double leg lunge, sometimes seen in iron Gyms across the world, generally accompanied by grunting noises of the large, hirsute males.... well they used to be hirsuite before they shaved it all off, I suppose.

Yes, my lady really likes the way her leg training is going now.

 

[kuniggety]

Kuniggety you've outed me as a person who has no idea how to use the media embedding tools on MT. I would be pleased and proud to oblige, I just don't know how. Maybe this is a decent time to learn.

I might be an old fart but I don't know how to embed your own images either. You can link to stuff online or upload a file of yours as an attachment with the button by post reply.

 

[Steve]

Click on the gallery link and upload some pics to a new album.

 

[Buka]

I might be an old fart but I don't know how to embed your own images either. You can link to stuff online or upload a file of yours as an attachment with the button by post reply.

"Might"?

 

[kuniggety]

"Might"?

Hey, some of us are on the cusp. Not everyone has securely attained that title such as yourself.

 

[Steve]

Glad this got necro'd. Some good discussion about self defense definitions and bodybuilding. I enjoyed re-reading the thread.

 

[tim po]

Glad this got necro'd. Some good discussion about self defense definitions and bodybuilding. I enjoyed re-reading the thread.

my body type is thin, wiry and tall. i weighed 100 pounds when i was 18 years old! i could eat a horse a day then, and not gain a pound. i began weight training at 18, and employed body-building science off and on throughout my twenties and early 30's. at 33 i weighed 180 lbs, solid lean muscle, and yes, i was viewed as 'probably not worth the trouble.' however, i had gained some insight over those years, and learned to 'cycle' body building with functional strength training, to 'teach' the new muscles how to work in situations other than the controlled excersizes performed to force them to grow.

body building specifically relies on isolation and catabolisis. you force a muscle to work alone and quickly reach a state of failure. this is not what you want to train your body to do, if you're goal is strength applicable to martial arts technique. functional strength excersizes focus on using the entire body as a coordinated unit, as with pistol-squats, one-arm-push-ups, and other whole body excersizes. whats more is that you do not approach failure, but instead do the excersizes several times a day, every day. training your body to perform more effeciently. you will build muscle this way but very slowly, and you will lose some of the mass built by body building when you stop, but you didn't need it. muscles grow fast, tendons do not.

in summary, body building is useful if you need it. but the long road is better. i am 48 now and recovering from an accident, but aside from that ( and i have gotten pretty skinny again as my activity has been less since last may) but i have retained functional strength and mobility. i don't look as good as i did ten years ago, but that is fine with me. continuing to use body building out of vanity at this point in my life would only decrease my longevity, i'm only concerned now with function.

hollywood has taught us what 'strong' looks like, but this is largely an illusion. at a certain point, too much muscle mass becomes a liability, depending of course on your skeleton-and the amount of real estate available to anchor thick tendons to bone. any muscle that exceeds the possible attachment capacity of your skeleton will just slow you down.

 

[Alan0354]

I only talk about weight training(part of body building) here. I think strength is very very important for MA. You need strength on top of MA technique. I don't buy into you have good technique, you don't need strength. Bruce Lee was about the first that emphasize on weight training, now most of the pro fighters and athletes use weight training as part of the workout regiment . Not only for strength, but for injury recovery. That's the reason you see older and older athletes that are still on top of their game pass 40.

I spend half my workout on weight training. I can say for sure if I were to be forced to give up MA or weight training, I'd give up MA in a heart beat. My back and neck will not survive without weight training.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Bruce Lee was about the first that emphasize on weight training, now most of the pro fighters and athletes use weight training as part of the workout regiment . Not only for strength, but for injury recovery. That's the reason you see older and older athletes that are still on top of their game pass 40.

I spend half my workout on weight training. I can say for sure if I were to be forced to give up MA or weight training, I'd give up MA in a heart beat. My back and neck will not survive without weight training.

If your MA already contains weights, you don't ever have to give up anything.

Have you ever trained with rings?

 

[Alan0354]

If your MA already contains weights, you don't ever have to give up anything.

Have you ever trained with rings?

No, cane is the only thing I train. I am not giving up anything, I do it half and half. Both are just as important. MA is aerobics, completely different. People need both.

From my interacting with quite a bit of MA people in Kung Fu even when I was in Hong Kong, they even said too much muscle get in the way and slow you down. That's very common in the old believes. That's the reason you see the older MA generation were so thin.

I look at it as injury recovery just as much as strength. It is very different the weight of weapon training vs actually weight training. The weight exercise for recovery is very different from swinging the weapon. Just lately, I have left shoulder and elbow problem from punching too much and swing the stick, I have to find weight exercise to tame the pain and knock on wood, I found it.

 

[caped crusader]

How much do you think the intimidation factor of massive, aesthetic muscles play into keeping yourself safe? I think you'll be pretty good, as long as you aren't the one starting that potential knife fight in the first place.
The intimidation levels hold exception for other branching physiques I think-

-Nordic strongman: intimidation factor +120%
-Tennis (only your dominant forearm is big and nothing else): intimidation factor -50℅
-Gains Goblin (short, dumb, ugly, but jacked): intimidation factor -12℅

Depends how far you take Bodybuilding. If you are a mass monster thonged warrior on stage it´s not that healthy but if you are a guy who wants some size and does cardio without abusing steroids then it´s all good and can use it in a fight. sure skill can win as we saw in the BJJ fighter against a big Bodybuilder posted a while back but also look at the MMA Guys. Some carry a fair bit of muscle. Even Heavy weight Boxers use weight training and a decent amount of muscle. was Tyson slow? muscle bound although he had good size using Bodybuilding training in his workouts? nope was a Raging bull in the ring !

 

[Alan0354]

Depends how far you take Bodybuilding. If you are a mass monster thonged warrior on stage it´s not that healthy but if you are a guy who wants some size and does cardio without abusing steroids then it´s all good and can use it in a fight. sure skill can win as we saw in the BJJ fighter against a big Bodybuilder posted a while back but also look at the MMA Guys. Some carry a fair bit of muscle. Even Heavy weight Boxers use weight training and a decent amount of muscle. was Tyson slow? muscle bound although he had good size using Bodybuilding training in his workouts? nope was a Raging bull in the ring !

When technique of both fighters are equal, the one that is stronger definitely win. Remember the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Gracie obviously did not train as much in weights are Huges. When they were on the ground, Huges just flatten Gracie, that was brute strength. Gracie got flatten and being ground and pound until the referee stopped the fight. It wasn't even a contest.

Gracie might have better technique than Huges, but just look at him, he just didn't look like he has much muscles. I bet those light or middle weight UFC fighters can bench like 315lbs(3 X 45lbs plate on each side). Imagine if he fight with some BJJ of the same weight, even he's at the bottom, just press up and the BJJ guy might go flying.

 

[caped crusader]

When technique of both fighters are equal, the one that is stronger definitely win. Remember the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Gracie obviously did not train as much in weights are Huges. When they were on the ground, Huges just flatten Gracie, that was brute strength. Gracie got flatten and being ground and pound until the referee stopped the fight. It wasn't even a contest.

Gracie might have better technique than Huges, but just look at him, he just didn't look like he has much muscles. I bet those light or middle weight UFC fighters can bench like 315lbs(3 X 45lbs plate on each side). Imagine if he fight with some BJJ of the same weight, even he's at the bottom, just press up and the BJJ guy might go flying.

Agree Alan. It's like some Aikido guy trying to apply Nikyo on a trained beefy arm ..Just won't happen regardless of the dreamers wishes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When technique of both fighters are equal, the one that is stronger definitely win. Remember the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Gracie obviously did not train as much in weights are Huges. When they were on the ground, Huges just flatten Gracie, that was brute strength. Gracie got flatten and being ground and pound until the referee stopped the fight. It wasn't even a contest.

Gracie might have better technique than Huges, but just look at him, he just didn't look like he has much muscles. I bet those light or middle weight UFC fighters can bench like 315lbs(3 X 45lbs plate on each side). Imagine if he fight with some BJJ of the same weight, even he's at the bottom, just press up and the BJJ guy might go flying.

Maybe the term bodybuilding has evolved. When I was hanging out with some bodybuilders, it was all about muscle size, and strength was secondary. Bodybuilding - as defined that way - isn’t all that beneficial to self-defense. It limits mobility (back then, it significantly limited ROM, too - perhaps that has evolved) and often flexibility. The muscles in MMA are generally from strength training, which is a different animal, and highly beneficial to fighting skill.

 

[caped crusader]

When I was hanging out with some bodybuilders,

Emm...ok. I guess JK van Damme Was not flexible and he did some competition Bodybuilding. Flex wheeler & others.

Flex Wheeler Interview | Idai Makaya Publications & Coaching Services

idaimakaya.com

 

[BrendanF]

There have been plenty of 'flexible' bodybuilders; several have done full splits on stage. Doesn't mean that "It limits mobility (back then, it significantly limited ROM, too - perhaps that has evolved) and often flexibility." is an inaccurate statement. Muscle bulk does limit ROM beyond a point:

When technique of both fighters are equal, the one that is stronger definitely win. Remember the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Gracie obviously did not train as much in weights are Huges. When they were on the ground, Huges just flatten Gracie, that was brute strength.

I'd say when technique is equal, the one that is 'fitter' will generally win. With fitness obviously implying an holistic view in which aerobic/anaerobic capacity is prioritised.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Emm...ok. I guess JK van Damme Was not flexible and he did some competition Bodybuilding. Flex wheeler & others.

Flex Wheeler Interview | Idai Makaya Publications & Coaching Services

idaimakaya.com

Which doesn't change the truth of the general case.

While it is entirely possible to train for multiple goals, the goal of traditional body building is bulk and definition. Not flexibility. And not strength.

 

[Alan0354]

I don't know about the extreme body builder, there's no reason why they cannot be flexible if they want to and stretch.

I belonged to Gold's Gym which is a heavy duty gym, there were people that went on competition circuit for body building, they were not just big, they were very fit also. I know enough "big" friends that are flexible, some into martial arts. Most of them don't do body building but still work hard and get very strong. They look big and intimidating also even though they don't compete.

Not too many people want to compete in body building but just want to get big. It is very hard and expensive to go on real body building and compete. You have to get down to like 4% body fat, the diet is very very expensive and it literally take over your life. A lot of people just train and get big, but not interested in competition. In professional's eyes, they might not qualify to compete, but for normal eyes, they sure look big and nice and trim. Those are the ones you have to watch out. They might not be the "real" body builder in the pure sense, but they are strong and a lot of them are fast and flexible. Just because they are big doesn't not mean they don't train in fighting. I know a guy going to the gym during the morning lunch break, they train in Karate after work.

It's funny I heard a lot of kung-fu people in Hong Kong said more muscles slow you down and make you inflexible. From my experience, they were just jealous because they were small and thin. You definitely can be both, big and good in fighting.

 

[Ivan]

It's funny I heard a lot of kung-fu people in Hong Kong said more muscles slow you down and make you inflexible. From my experience, they were just jealous because they were small and thin. You definitely can be both, big and good in fighting.

Muscles do slow you down because they are not responsible for how fast you strike. Take Bruce Lee or Ryan Garcia, they are extremely slim in comparison to heavyweight boxers, bodybuilders, etc. But they are much faster. Usually, there are two avenues for achieving striking force. Technique factors in too, but I am talking about speed or mass. Kamaru Usman holds the world record for the hardest punch in the world, but he's not as fast as either Garcia or Lee.

No one likes to admit it, but all the muscles that boxers and fighters have are usually for show or aesthetic reasons - it strokes the ego. Sure, abdominals are great for protecting the stomach and vitals, but unless you're wrestling or grappling, there's not much advantage to getting big for a striking fight. It will add to your knockout power, but speed does that too. I personally really aspire to be on the more muscular end, because it is an insecurity of mine. I don't like the idea of being as skinny as I used to be, and I feel that my size and physique made me a very vulnerable target when I was younger both in the ring and outside of it. I also think it looks good, and that muscularity can be used to intimidate opponents. It also gives me confidence.

Regardless, muscles do slow you down and make your gas out quicker in fights too.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's funny I heard a lot of kung-fu people in Hong Kong said more muscles slow you down and make you inflexible. From my experience, they were just jealous because they were small and thin. You definitely can be both, big and good in fighting.

Exactly. I mean, just look at all the really bulky sprinters and marathon runners!

Oh... wait...