How easy would it be to defeat a boxer by simply "attacking his weak legs" in particular with kicks? Specifically for an average out of shape Joe?

Bullsherdog

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One of the cliches is that to defeat a boxer, you simply attack his legs since they are quite weak. Especially with kicks (which boxers are often seen as being terrible at taking).

Indeed I seen enough kickboxing vs boxer and MMA vs boxer at the professional level , and old school hardcore training full contact traditional martial artist defeat boxers that this is overall accurate.

However on the flip side I seen many amateur traditionalist martial artists, weekend kickboxers, and MMA fanboys who brag pro boxers are easy to defeat for the same reason. We are talking about average Joes who are out of shape by fighting standards (or even morbidly obese fatsos and frail skinny nerds) and only practise at best 1 hour a day and often on average only at the weekend (and even than rarely more than 30 mins, I know many who practise less than 15 mins).

Would it simply be easy as "attack the legs"? I ask this because I seen in a post months ago I think it was in the Muay Thai and amateur boxing subreddits of MT fighters saying they were losing to boxers of about equal skills and physical conditioning and it took advancing higher skills of both their boxing opponents and themselves in MT to finally demolish the boxing specialists with ease.

However this assumes the use of punches, elbows, knees, sweeps, etc the many stuff MT allows and not merely breaking legs.

Another reason I ask is since boxers do a lot of roadwork and roadwork is generally seen as one of the prime ways to train the legs in traditionalist karate and Savate to be both toughen up and hit hard, I wonder if their legs are so weak that an out of shape nerd doing a roundhouse ould easily break them? I mean in modern times many boxers do weight training such as kettlebell swings that often strengthens the legs so I find the "break the legs easily" cliche questionable for weekend warriors who don't train hard.

How is it? is it that simple? I mean I received kicks before from even people fit enough to compete with a degree of legitimate competence in high school sports including muscular football players and while receiving roundhouses and such did sting like hell, my legs wasn't broken even from the quite fit jock athletes.

Would you actually have to be fit enough to spare full contact at amateur tournament levels to "break legs easily with kicks" as the cliche goes?
 

Tony Dismukes

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One of the cliches is that to defeat a boxer, you simply attack his legs since they are quite weak.
Im not sure where youre getting this cliche from. Boxers legs are not weak. They work their legs out hard.

it is a valid tactic to target the legs of a boxer because they arent used to lower body attacks (unless they have experience in another art, which many do). Thats different from being weak in the legs. And of course, being a valid tactic does not mean its guaranteed to work. After all, the boxer is attacking you at the same time and if you cant handle his punches then you wont have the chance to finish him with low-line attacks.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Since a boxer likes to have his chest to face you. The chest can be a better target. Just let your boxer opponent to run into your kick.

Foot sweep and knee stomp are good strategies too.
 

wab25

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Since a boxer likes to have his chest to face you. The chest can be a better target. Just let your boxer opponent to run into your kick.

Foot sweep and knee stomp are good strategies too.
Boxers do not like to have their chest face you. Its called "squaring up" and when a fighter does that, he is open to be hit, and can generate no power... for the same reasons that many other martial arts discourages this as well. Some fighters will square up during a fight, just as many martial artists do as well. Every time, it puts the fighter squaring up, at a disadvantage. Even boxers will take advantage of it, if you square up against them.

Look up the different boxing guards, (the philly shell and such) none of them call for the boxer to square up. They all call for the boxer to be turned to the side, so as not to be open. Even when a boxer is on the ropes, they are taught to not square up.

*note: edited above to say that many martial arts discourage squaring up... there are some martial arts that do fight in a squared off stance. And they can generate power... but the technique is different than boxing technique. So a boxer would lose his power when squared up, unless he specifically trains another art to learn that technique. Thanks Crane!
 
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Flying Crane

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Boxers do not like to have their chest face you. Its called "squaring up" and when a fighter does that, he is open to be hit, and can generate no power... for the same reasons that every other martial art discourages this as well.

Well, this is not correct. Some systems can do it. You definitely can generate good power from that position. It is done. But not many do it.
 

wab25

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Well, this is not correct. Some systems can do it. You definitely can generate good power from that position. It is done. But not many do it.
Can you point me at a boxing system that fights from a squared up position? I have not seen one... but I am willing to learn about one that does.
 

Flying Crane

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Can you point me at a boxing system that fights from a squared up position? I have not seen one... but I am willing to learn about one that does.
I dont know anything about boxing. You said all martial arts dont do this. That is where you are mistaken.
 

wab25

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Ah... I thought you were saying some boxer styles square up. I will edit my post above to say most other styles of martial arts. Thanks for pointing that out.
 

Flying Crane

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Ah... I thought you were saying some boxer styles square up. I will edit my post above to say most other styles of martial arts. Thanks for pointing that out.
You had already said that, which is why I responded.
 

Flying Crane

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Well, this is not correct. Some systems can do it. You definitely can generate good power from that position. It is done. But not many do it.
@wab25, I may need to modify/clarify this statement. If you remain squared it is very difficult to create good power because you cannot engage the full body very effectively. But you can start from that position and rotate the torso with very good power, if its driven with the legs and feet.
 

drop bear

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Can you point me at a boxing system that fights from a squared up position? I have not seen one... but I am willing to learn about one that does.

Amateurs tend to.

So dudes like kostya Tszu who come from a very traditional boxing back ground square up.

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Amateurs tend to.
I have sparred with many boxers they like to use the square stance because they like to have the same reach with both arms (not one long arm and one short arm).

In wrestling, it's called "cross stance". You have right leg forward but with left hand forward. It's the same as the square stance that you expose your chest to your opponent.

Advantage - your back hand is already in the compress stage and ready to be released.

 

dvcochran

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One of the cliches is that to defeat a boxer, you simply attack his legs since they are quite weak. Especially with kicks (which boxers are often seen as being terrible at taking).

Indeed I seen enough kickboxing vs boxer and MMA vs boxer at the professional level , and old school hardcore training full contact traditional martial artist defeat boxers that this is overall accurate.

However on the flip side I seen many amateur traditionalist martial artists, weekend kickboxers, and MMA fanboys who brag pro boxers are easy to defeat for the same reason. We are talking about average Joes who are out of shape by fighting standards (or even morbidly obese fatsos and frail skinny nerds) and only practise at best 1 hour a day and often on average only at the weekend (and even than rarely more than 30 mins, I know many who practise less than 15 mins).

Would it simply be easy as "attack the legs"? I ask this because I seen in a post months ago I think it was in the Muay Thai and amateur boxing subreddits of MT fighters saying they were losing to boxers of about equal skills and physical conditioning and it took advancing higher skills of both their boxing opponents and themselves in MT to finally demolish the boxing specialists with ease.

However this assumes the use of punches, elbows, knees, sweeps, etc the many stuff MT allows and not merely breaking legs.

Another reason I ask is since boxers do a lot of roadwork and roadwork is generally seen as one of the prime ways to train the legs in traditionalist karate and Savate to be both toughen up and hit hard, I wonder if their legs are so weak that an out of shape nerd doing a roundhouse ould easily break them? I mean in modern times many boxers do weight training such as kettlebell swings that often strengthens the legs so I find the "break the legs easily" cliche questionable for weekend warriors who don't train hard.

How is it? is it that simple? I mean I received kicks before from even people fit enough to compete with a degree of legitimate competence in high school sports including muscular football players and while receiving roundhouses and such did sting like hell, my legs wasn't broken even from the quite fit jock athletes.

Would you actually have to be fit enough to spare full contact at amateur tournament levels to "break legs easily with kicks" as the cliche goes?
The short answer is No.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Can you point me at a boxing system that fights from a squared up position? I have not seen one... but I am willing to learn about one that does.
Mike Tyson did a lot of fighting from a pretty squared up stance. It worked with the peekaboo style that he learned from Cus D'amato.

Mind you, he didn't stay rigidly squared up the whole time. As Flying Crane points out, it's a starting point that allows rotation to either side to generate power.
 

punisher73

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I'm not even going to get into "joe average" vs. a pro boxer. That's ridiculous.

But, as to the overall question about kicking the legs, as with all things fight related. It depends...one of the main factors is going to be which person controls the distance better. Can the "kicker" maintain the distance he needs to stay out of range and employ his kicks effectively? If he can't, does he have the tools to deal with the boxer to get it back to kicking distance?

But, I think we can look at MMA fights and see that if a person can employ kicks that aren't dealt with by the other person, it usually doesn't end well for the receiving person.
 

wab25

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Mike Tyson did a lot of fighting from a pretty squared up stance. It worked with the peekaboo style that he learned from Cus D'amato.

Mind you, he didn't stay rigidly squared up the whole time. As Flying Crane points out, it's a starting point that allows rotation to either side to generate power.
This is the part I was responding to:

Since a boxer likes to have his chest to face you.
Tyson did fight more square than most fighters... but he fought orthodox or south paw... meaning he had a front foot and back foot. The peekaboo style, still has a rotation, so that you are not fully squared up. And the chest would not be exposed in a peekaboo.

Yes, Tyson does square up... but there are reasons he is doing so... and he does not stay there, chest open, easy to hit. He is switching stance, sliding and or feinting. And he does not stay there long.

The way I look at Tysons fighting style, he squared up in transition. He would start orthodox, and then he would slide or switch stance as needed. There is a moment in time when he was squared up, but it did not last long and was used to put him in a position of advantage, where he was not squared up... either by rotation or foot movement or both.

Lastly, I would not say Tyson is like most boxers and I would not say that his chest was exposed and easy to hit. When Tyson's chest was facing the other guy, it was covered, he was moving or the other guy was fighting to remain on his feet because his bell had already been rung.

Interesting to note the quote in the video at 9:22 from Kenny Weldon
"Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away or closing the distance to box at an advantageous angle, exposing the least amount of your body, while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not get hit."
 

wab25

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Advantage - your back hand is already in the compress stage and ready to be released.
This is true for most boxing stances as well. Peekaboo would be one of the exceptions. But most styles that I am familiar with, the back hand is compressed ready to go. Many of the styles also have the front hand ready to go as well, though there are a lot more that differ here.
 
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