How did Taekwon-Do (1955) predating 1966 look like?

[Laplace_demon]

[


Here is my experience vis a vis ITF Curriculum as a whole. 6 Full (Hosted One) and One partial IIC by General Choi plus seminars, in the USA, Canada, Jamaica, Russia, Italy, as well has Having judged World Cup and International Championships in 3 countries. 2 More ITF V IICs after General Choi's death.

If you feel that is not enough of a representation as to what the ITF curriculum is then we will agree to disagree.

You did that all in the mid 70s?

 

[Tez3]

The point is this: One of Chois major departures from Karate (sine wave) was a fiasco. Evidence of this is the number of splinter groups that kept his patterns, but rejected Sine Wave. It is not universally accepted among ITF stylist. I know for a fact that groups practising his system without sine wave, does so because they simply did/do not like it, not because of politics.

I don't know what 'sine wave' is but I'm not learning anything from your posts to enlighten me, what are YOUR reason's for disliking it? Can you explain why it doesn't work for you, why you think it's impractical? What is it about sine wave you don't like or can't make work? At the moment all we are getting is a repetitive diatribe about one person.

You see, those that actually train TKD will be able to give their practical reasons why they like or dislike sine wave, not just rubbish it because they have a beef about Gen Choi. They will be able to explain why they do it or why they don't so that a non TKD person like myself can understand, politics I suspect has nothing to do with whether they do it or not, more that they don't think it adds to their skill or that it does.

 

[Laplace_demon]

I don't know what 'sine wave' is but I'm not learning anything from your posts to enlighten me, what are YOUR reason's for disliking it? Can you explain why it doesn't work for you, why you think it's impractical? What is it about sine wave you don't like or can't make work? At the moment all we are getting is a repetitive diatribe about one person.

You see, those that actually train TKD will be able to give their practical reasons why they like or dislike sine wave, not just rubbish it because they have a beef about Gen Choi. They will be able to explain why they do it or why they don't so that a non TKD person like myself can understand, politics I suspect has nothing to do with whether they do it or not, more that they don't think it adds to their skill or that it does.

The thread is not about ME. It's about Taekwondo-Do of the 50s and 60s, and it's eventual evolution.

 

[Gnarlie]

The thread is not about ME. It's about Taekwondo-Do of the 50s and 60s, and it's eventual evolution.

If that is the case, you would do better to stick to actual, verifiable facts rather than stating your opinion as fact, which is what you have done for most of the thread.

 

[Tez3]

The thread is not about ME. It's about Taekwondo-Do of the 50s and 60s, and it's eventual evolution.[/QUOTE

In your title to this thread you asked a question, you have not however taken on board any of the answers given by people who know the answers to your question. You've used the thread to give your opinion and in your opinion, your opinion is the only opinion that counts or matters.
I assume you are ducking and deflecting my question because you do not know the answer and can't tell me.

 

[TrueJim]

I don't know what 'sine wave' is...

Just as an aside, I don't think the wiki's Sine Wave article is terribly good. If anybody wants to take a crack at improving it...

Taekwondo Sine Wave - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[TrueJim]

The point is this: One of Chois major departures from Karate (sine wave) was a fiasco...

Hey, I'm not trying to defend the Sine Wave, but I will defend the English language. Fiasco? FIASCO?

The Sine Wave is practiced by literally millions of students studying under thousands of masters at thousands of schools in hundreds of countries in at least three major Federations.

Saying that the Sine Wave is a fiasco is like saying that McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are a fiasco because some people prefer Big Macs.

And while I'm perfectly content to sit here and let you insult taekwondo, Choi Hong Hi, the ITF, and the Sine Wave, I cannot in good conscience remain quiet while you insult Chicken McNuggets!

 

[Tez3]

Just as an aside, I don't think the wiki's Sine Wave article is terribly good. If anybody wants to take a crack at improving it...

Taekwondo Sine Wave - Taekwondo Wiki

Wiki really cannot be relied on when looking for a good source to cite can it? A Tory politician is in trouble here at the moment for 'editing' rival politician's Wiki pages, not to their credit I needn't add.

 

[TrueJim]

Wiki really cannot be relied on when looking for a good source to cite can it?

I agree. Wikis are often a good starting-point for learning something, but you have to go to the cited references to find reliable sources.

That having been said, I check the taekwondo wiki every day for vandalism or egregious misinformation. Thankfully, there is almost no vandalism, and the only egregious misinformation is what I myself add.

 

[Tez3]

I agree. Wikis are often a good starting-point for learning something, but you have to go to the cited references to find reliable sources.

That having been said, I check the taekwondo wiki every day for vandalism or egregious misinformation. Thankfully, there is almost no vandalism, and the only egregious misinformation is what I myself add.

Thank you for the info anyway, I'm going to have to have a bit of a try out!

 

[Laplace_demon]

In your title to this thread you asked a question, you have not however taken on board any of the answers given by people who know the answers to your question. You've used the thread to give your opinion and in your opinion, your opinion is the only opinion that counts or matters.
I assume you are ducking and deflecting my question because you do not know the answer and can't tell me.

Sigh.

 

[Tez3]

Sigh.

ROFLMAO, oh my dear boy you are funny.

 

[elder999]

In the interest of staying on topic, and away from Mr.. LaPlace's character....or lack thereof, and away from matters of the sine wave, which I admittedly do not care for, or care to try to understand. It's not the "down" part that bothers me; it's the excessive "up," and, in any case, has not been presented by anyone as "how tae kwon do predating 1966 would look," let me reiterate:


The short answer is Anko Itosu


So, what did tae kwon do in the 50's and 60's (and 70's, sometimes 80's, and in some places like Texas today?) look like?

An awful lot like some Korean gentlemen doing Shotokan karate.

(Or, at least, an awful lot like some Korean gentlemen doing Pinan kata....)

and here they are, those Korean gentlemen doing Shotokan karate.

 

[Laplace_demon]

In the interest of staying on topic, and away from Mr.. LaPlace's character....or lack thereof, and away from matters of the sine wave, which I admittedly do not care for, or care to try to understand. It's not the "down" part that bothers me; it's the excessive "up," and, in any case, has not been presented by anyone as "how tae kwon do predating 1966 would look," let me reiterate:


The short answer is Anko Itosu


So, what did tae kwon do in the 50's and 60's (and 70's, sometimes 80's, and in some places like Texas today?) look like?

An awful lot like some Korean gentlemen doing Shotokan karate.

(Or, at least, an awful lot like some Korean gentlemen doing Pinan kata....)

and here they are, those Korean gentlemen doing Shotokan karate.

You have written the same one liner now at least three times..... As for sine wave: it's not up down.. It's low, high, low

General Choi will explain for you:

 

[elder999]

You have written the same one liner now at least three times..... As for sine wave: it's not up down.. It's low, high, low

General Choi will explain for you:

Yeah, but that's not "what pre-1966 tae kwon do looked like," now is it?

 

[Laplace_demon]

Yeah, but that's not "what pre-1966 tae kwon do looked like," now is it?

That's not how 1966 Taekwon-do looked either.
But Choi had to mess up his elegant patterns. Gishin Funakoshi, General Chois Sensei, would have been proud the way it was originally. They weren't Shotokan level (near perfection!) but for TKD standards in patterns pretty great, IMO

 

[elder999]

They weren't Shotokan level (near perfection!) but for TKD standards in patterns pretty great, IMO

Oh, my...

"near perfection!"
?

You do know that there are what some would call deliberate errors in Shotokan-that at the very least they deviated from their Okinawan origins with a decidedly Japanese emphasis? I mean, that's another thread, and another discussion as well.......

 

[Drose427]

Oh, my...

"near perfection!"
?

You do know that there are what some would call deliberate errors in Shotokan-that at the very least they deviated from their Okinawan origins with a decidedly Japanese emphasis? I mean, that's another thread, and another discussion as well.......

Not to mention how much Shotokan and its techs and training would would change for accessibility of all people of all ages.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You did that all in the mid 70s?

I never said that.

If that is what was referred to in your post it certainly was not clear. I thought it was in regard to your claim that Sine Wave was not universaly accepted by ITF orgs., vis a vis a poster not being representative of the ITF curriculum.

 

[Earl Weiss]

In the interest of staying on topic, and away from Mr.. LaPlace's character....or lack thereof, and away from matters of the sine wave, which I admittedly do not care for, or care to try to understand. It's not the "down" part that bothers me; it's the excessive "up," and, in any case, has not been presented by anyone as "how tae kwon do predating 1966 would look," let me reiterate:


T.

Concerning your "excessive" comment, I have to agree. In fact someone did a comparison of patterns performed on the DVDs under the supervision of General Choi and later videos a s currently practiced by some and found some current versions had much more pronounced down / up / down motions.