Helping Students Deal With Bullying

[Gerry Seymour]

I teach at a small Catholic school. This must be said...

We get several students every year who came from other schools - public and private, large and small. They come to our school because they were bullied at their previous school and want a fresh start and be in a small school environment where the teachers and administrators can help stop the bullying far easier. Sounds like a great idea, right?

They get here, and not much changes. They’re not getting beat up, and it’s not outright, but they’re definitely not problem free. We do a great job of stopping things before they become a bigger problem though. Some parents tell us their kids are being bullied, but I’ll address that later.

They graduate from here (middle school) and move on to high school where again, it starts all over again.

This is going to be unpopular, but please read the whole thing before you judge...

A lot of these kids (NOT ALL) who are being bullied by different people at different places tells me something. The kids are often doing things that are inviting the behavior. I’ve seen them follow the kids around that end up bullying them in an attempt to befriend them, but in an extremely annoying “leave me alone” way. I’ve seen the bullied kids actually start the bullying process by doing underhanded things first. Sometimes it’s a kid that has poor hygiene. But I see a ton of kids get bullied because of poor social skills.

I’m not saying they deserve it. I’m not saying they’re asking for it. No way, no how.

But what I am saying is they could surely benefit from counseling. Having a master’s in counseling (although I have no other experience), I could see cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) helping these kids. If they address the behaviors that are “inviting” (for a lack of a better word right now) bullying, it can be greatly reduced in a lot of cases. I’m not saying there will be zero bullying, as kids are kids, but it’ll be less so. I genuinely don’t see how some parents turn a blind eye to why their kid’s getting picked on when the kid is showing up with hair that’s greasy, their clothes are filthy, and they smell like they haven’t showered in weeks. Even adults keep their distance from other adults who do that, why would Kids not react to that? They’re reacting inappropriately, but remember they’re kids (that’s not a free pass for their behavior, btw).

Then there’s parents who think their kids can do no wrong. Everyone’s out to get their kids and them too. Someone says the wrong thing, and the kid’s being bullied. When we as teachers watch it and don’t have the emotion of it’s our own kids and actually see the day to day interaction instead of one side, it sometimes becomes obvious that the one complaining about being bullied is actually the aggressor and getting the negative reactions from their peers that they appear to want. I had a kid in a different school who accused about a dozen different kids at different times of bullying him. He’d follow someone around and whisper insults into their ear until the other one retaliated. Then somehow he was being bullied. After 5 or 6 people, it became painfully obvious who the real problem was.

I know, I’m sure this is going to get taken way out of context. I just had to get it off my chest. Again, I’m not saying anyone deserves it. I’m not saying everyone brings it on themselves. I’m saying if there’s a pattern, the person needs to look inward as well as outward.

MA isn’t going to be a cure by any means. It’ll help some kids, but certainly not any or every kid.

I was bullied across three schools (starting, coincidentally, at a small Catholic school). As you point out, that's not mere coincidence. I was a "good victim" - shy, conflict-avoidant, awkward, quiet, small, and afraid of people (people don't believe me about most of those things now).

 

[Tez3]

If you want to call Baltimore, Maryland soft. Then I guess it is soft.

All towns and cities have areas where people are softer than others, cities and many towns also have areas where people are hard.

I’m saying if there’s a pattern, the person needs to look inward as well as outward.

Your comments are certainly valid of course but what happens when the bullying happens because you have a different coloured skin, a different faith, have a disability or come from another country? There is a pattern when people like this are bullied and it's not their fault. Children tried to bully me for being Jewish and being English (in Scotland), I've had a few adults try as well but I dealt with them all and did not get bullied.

I genuinely don’t see how some parents turn a blind eye to why their kid’s getting picked on when the kid is showing up with hair that’s greasy, their clothes are filthy, and they smell like they haven’t showered in weeks.

Bad parenting.

it sometimes becomes obvious that the one complaining about being bullied is actually the aggressor and getting the negative reactions from their peers that they appear to want.

When my daughter was at secondary school a disabled girl kept complaining my daughter was bullying her, said she picked on her etc. My daughter denied it and I knew she was telling the truth. This went on for a while making my daughter more reluctant than usual to go to school ( it was hard getting her to go at the best of times, she preferred to go to the stables) anyway one day this girl went crying to the teachers that my daughter had assaulted her, the headmaster sent for my daughter to have it out only my daughter wasn't at school that day, hadn't been there all week. That sorted that out! My daughter still didn't like school and in fact being at the stables meant she'd passed all her British Horse Society's exams, was an assistant riding instructor and ran her own business schooling horses and riding horses that had been injured who needed a light rider at 13. She went onto a good job in horse racing and and still in the industry, is in an extremely well paid job now. Not sure what the moral of that story is lol. She is also known for punching out a stable lad who was trying to bully another because she has always hated bullies and will absolutely stand up to them.

 

[Tez3]

I was a "good victim" - shy, conflict-avoidant, awkward, quiet, small, and afraid of people (people don't believe me about most of those things now).

I wasn't and still they tried. I was confident, I stood up for myself and my father was teaching me to box as soon as I could stand and make a fist. Being different means people want to put you down, there's still plenty of it around. I'm not unaware of a recent march in the US where they were shouting about the Jews. Anti-Semitic attacks hit record high in UK

 

[MA_Student]

Or you can focus on taking out the leader. When there's a gang of bullies one of them is going to be the leader, usually the biggest and meanest. A would be victim could focus everything on taking out the leader and just totally charge the leader, just like in Christmas Story. When the gang sees their leader being taken down they will lose their morale and most likely back off.

Or they get pissed off their friend just got beaten then they beat you even worse

 

[JR 137]

All towns and cities have areas where people are softer than others, cities and many towns also have areas where people are hard.



Your comments are certainly valid of course but what happens when the bullying happens because you have a different coloured skin, a different faith, have a disability or come from another country? There is a pattern when people like this are bullied and it's not their fault. Children tried to bully me for being Jewish and being English (in Scotland), I've had a few adults try as well but I dealt with them all and did not get bullied.



Bad parenting.



When my daughter was at secondary school a disabled girl kept complaining my daughter was bullying her, said she picked on her etc. My daughter denied it and I knew she was telling the truth. This went on for a while making my daughter more reluctant than usual to go to school ( it was hard getting her to go at the best of times, she preferred to go to the stables) anyway one day this girl went crying to the teachers that my daughter had assaulted her, the headmaster sent for my daughter to have it out only my daughter wasn't at school that day, hadn't been there all week. That sorted that out! My daughter still didn't like school and in fact being at the stables meant she'd passed all her British Horse Society's exams, was an assistant riding instructor and ran her own business schooling horses and riding horses that had been injured who needed a light rider at 13. She went onto a good job in horse racing and and still in the industry, is in an extremely well paid job now. Not sure what the moral of that story is lol. She is also known for punching out a stable lad who was trying to bully another because she has always hated bullies and will absolutely stand up to them.

I can’t do multiple quotes from my iPhone...

People get “bullied” for all sorts of reasons, and none of them are valid. I can’t list every reason why, such as the ones you listed. No matter what, people are going to get bullied. Having an ethnic Armenian name in school didn’t do me any favors. It was made fun of my first day of kindergarten (and I was first alphabetically ). I still get it occasionally at 41, but it doesn’t bother me at all, unless of course someone’s being a straight up wanker (in your language ) about it.

There’s a difference between kids teasing each other and bullying each other. Somehow people confuse the two and jump straight into “I’m being bullied!” or “my kid’s being bullied!” I think people play that bully card a bit too much. I have kids come to me saying they’re being bullied. I ask what happened, they tell me someone made fun of them. I ask how long it’s been going on for, and they tell me it was only this time. Really? One person makes a stupid joke one time and now they’re bullying you? I could see if it was a threat or racial or something else serious, but that’s not what happened. I hear the word bullying so many times that I just turn a deaf ear to it. There’s a textbook definition to it that I understand and agree with; too many people don’t know it and assume any time someone looks at them the wrong way, they’re being bullied.

Regarding bad parenting...

My wife teaches a 9 grade self contained special education class. Her kids are emotionally disturbed. There’s a girl in her class who literally smells like urine every day. And more often that not smells like feces too. It’s so bad that it’ll make your eyes water. The kid is constantly harassed about it. The kids refuse to sit anywhere near her and constantly openly complain. And you know what? They’re right. It’s that bad. My wife has to bleach wipe her chair and desk when she (and the others) leaves the room.

Then the parent repeatedly complains to my wife and the administration that her kid is being bullied. Yet she refuses to make her clean herself. The administration, school psychologists, the school nurse, and even child protective services have told the mother she needs to make her kid bathe. In one ear and out the other, yet the bullying complaints keep coming and she’s even threatened legal action (although everyone knows she doesn’t have a leg to stand on). Everyone genuinely does everything they can to keep her from being targeted.

And she wonders why the kid gets treated that way.

 

[Tez3]

There’s a difference between kids teasing each other and bullying each other. Somehow people confuse the two and jump straight into “I’m being bullied!” or “my kid’s being bullied!” I think people play that bully card a bit too much. I have kids come to me saying they’re being bullied. I ask what happened, they tell me someone made fun of them. I ask how long it’s been going on for, and they tell me it was only this time. Really? One person makes a stupid joke one time and now they’re bullying you? I could see if it was a threat or racial or something else serious, but that’s not what happened. I hear the word bullying so many times that I just turn a deaf ear to it. There’s a textbook definition to it that I understand and agree with; too many people don’t know it and assume any time someone looks at them the wrong way, they’re being bullied.

Do you understand how hurtful it is for many especially children to be made fun of? You make not think it's bullying but in many ways it's worse than being hit. To be laughed it is horrendous for a child, it's more damaging than a bruise. It can make a child curl up and want to die, yes even if it's only once. Children want to be accepted, to be liked and loved, they want approval not just form adults but from their peers, to have someone mock and humiliate you destroys the inner child, it rips them up inside.

To you, as an adult, it's just a stupid joke but a 'stupid joke' that is aimed at your weakest point, your Achilles heel will certainly hurt. I've seen grown men attack each other over a 'stupid joke'. don't ever think words can't hurt more than blows. No one should be humiliated. I daresay you will come back and say they need to grow a thicker skin, but this is what I was saying about 'banter', it's not 'banter' it is actually bullying, it's inappropriate behaviour. If you are turning a deaf ear when a child has been humiliated by being laughed at, then you aren't doing your job. You are dismissing others concerns because it doesn't affect you so you think it should affect them, it's only 'banter'. I know someone will post that we have become too PC and that people need to get a sense of humour. It's inevitable.

Depending on the age of the child 'jokes' and banter can easily become sexual as they move into adolescent. We had a recent talk about this at Guides and I can confirm the girls experiences of 'jokes and 'banter' are ones of hurt and frankly nastiness.

"When banter isn’t banter
"The thing about banter is, it’s only funny if both parties find it funny. That seems like an obvious thing to say but young people will often confuse banter with abuse because they believe the person to be their close friend. However, if that child is offended by, or feels uncomfortable with something that is said to them, then it most certainly isn’t banter; it’s effectively bullying. If someone says “don’t be upset, it’s just a bit of banter”, it isn’t banter."

From here. Abuse or banter? – Sexual harrassment and abuse at school

 

[drop bear135 10]

I think you may be using a different connotation of "zero tolerance". Here, it often means "zero tolerance for violence of any kind", so if a bully corners a kid and the kid feels threatened enough to fight back, the victim will be punished (no violence, remember). It can even be worse than that - a bully corners a kid and threatens him, so the kid shoves him away. Since the bully didn't touch the other kid, the victim may be the only one punished.

There's a bad taste for zero-tolerance policies because of the way they are interpreted. Some schools enacted zero-tolerance policies surrounding guns, and kids were suspended for drawing pictures of them.

Yeah the casey haynes saga.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All towns and cities have areas where people are softer than others, cities and many towns also have areas where people are hard.

The thing is, that I didn't live in nor work in those "softer areas" when I lived in Baltimore.

 

[Tez3]

The thing is, that I didn't live in nor work in those "softer areas" when I lived in Baltimore.

Some cities hard areas are other's soft ones. Few men like to think of themselves as softer than others, most men like to think of themselves as being able to defend themselves but there are those who are beyond hard. These are the ones who don't care about consequences either to themselves or others. There is nothing you can do to scare them, they have no fear simply because they don't care. I know two people like this and know of several more.

 

[JR 137]

Do you understand how hurtful it is for many especially children to be made fun of? You make not think it's bullying but in many ways it's worse than being hit. To be laughed it is horrendous for a child, it's more damaging than a bruise. It can make a child curl up and want to die, yes even if it's only once. Children want to be accepted, to be liked and loved, they want approval not just form adults but from their peers, to have someone mock and humiliate you destroys the inner child, it rips them up inside.

To you, as an adult, it's just a stupid joke but a 'stupid joke' that is aimed at your weakest point, your Achilles heel will certainly hurt. I've seen grown men attack each other over a 'stupid joke'. don't ever think words can't hurt more than blows. No one should be humiliated. I daresay you will come back and say they need to grow a thicker skin, but this is what I was saying about 'banter', it's not 'banter' it is actually bullying, it's inappropriate behaviour. If you are turning a deaf ear when a child has been humiliated by being laughed at, then you aren't doing your job. You are dismissing others concerns because it doesn't affect you so you think it should affect them, it's only 'banter'. I know someone will post that we have become too PC and that people need to get a sense of humour. It's inevitable.

Depending on the age of the child 'jokes' and banter can easily become sexual as they move into adolescent. We had a recent talk about this at Guides and I can confirm the girls experiences of 'jokes and 'banter' are ones of hurt and frankly nastiness.

"When banter isn’t banter
"The thing about banter is, it’s only funny if both parties find it funny. That seems like an obvious thing to say but young people will often confuse banter with abuse because they believe the person to be their close friend. However, if that child is offended by, or feels uncomfortable with something that is said to them, then it most certainly isn’t banter; it’s effectively bullying. If someone says “don’t be upset, it’s just a bit of banter”, it isn’t banter."

From here. Abuse or banter? – Sexual harrassment and abuse at school

Please don’t tell me I’m not doing my job. You have no idea what I dismiss and what I don’t dismiss. I don’t let anyone get away with humiliating someone.

And you can dare say I think they need thicker skin. Again, you have zero idea what I’m referring to as a stupid joke. Trust me, I’m very strict with my students. Some might say I’m a bit too strict when it comes to how they treat each other.

And you missed my point; I don’t ignore a complaint, but I’m just so sick of everyone thinking everything is bullying. A 12 year old making a stupid joke one time isn’t bullying. Just because I’m tired of hearing it called bullying doesn’t mean I think it’s ok. I address it and explain why he/she shouldn’t say it again and make him/her apologize. Everyone says stupid things every now and then. That’s not a bully, that’s someone who made a mistake.

If it continues, then you can use a bullying card.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf135 1]

It's interesting to me how much someone will try to diminish another posters abilities, morals, experiences, or perception of their perceptions, rather than accepting that those people may have valid points that don't fall in line with (or contradict) one's own beliefs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Some cities hard areas are other's soft ones. Few men like to think of themselves as softer than others, most men like to think of themselves as being able to defend themselves but there are those who are beyond hard. These are the ones who don't care about consequences either to themselves or others. There is nothing you can do to scare them, they have no fear simply because they don't care. I know two people like this and know of several more.

Baltimore's hard areas are just that. There are areas around there where stopping your car on the wrong corner is dangerous.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some cities hard areas are other's soft ones. Few men like to think of themselves as softer than others, most men like to think of themselves as being able to defend themselves but there are those who are beyond hard. These are the ones who don't care about consequences either to themselves or others. There is nothing you can do to scare them, they have no fear simply because they don't care. I know two people like this and know of several more.

That is true. But you won't know which is which unless you know them personally. As tough as thugs can be there are very few that fit your description in comparison to those who aren't fearless. Most stand tall in a group, but not as willing as an individuals. Which is why they run around in groups in the first place. It's the guys at the top that are dangerous because they can't afford to be seen as being weak. As a result they will commit any type of violence to keep the power and intimidation that they have. People like that you can beat in a fight only to have them hunt you down later that week to kill you. But again you won't know if a person is like that until it's too late. The only thing I was certain of back then was that I had to be willing to be just as brutal if that was my only chance to survive.

I went to the police and they pretty much told me the same thing. One officer said to me "There's nothing I can do for you. Do what you need in order to protect yourself."

That street life is no joke. I'm just glad I didn't have to grow up in it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Please don’t tell me I’m not doing my job. You have no idea what I dismiss and what I don’t dismiss. I don’t let anyone get away with humiliating someone.

And you can dare say I think they need thicker skin. Again, you have zero idea what I’m referring to as a stupid joke. Trust me, I’m very strict with my students. Some might say I’m a bit too strict when it comes to how they treat each other.

And you missed my point; I don’t ignore a complaint, but I’m just so sick of everyone thinking everything is bullying. A 12 year old making a stupid joke one time isn’t bullying. Just because I’m tired of hearing it called bullying doesn’t mean I think it’s ok. I address it and explain why he/she shouldn’t say it again and make him/her apologize. Everyone says stupid things every now and then. That’s not a bully, that’s someone who made a mistake.

If it continues, then you can use a bullying card.

I feel the same way about bullying being something that happens regularly. As a teen I was often harassed. I can't call it bullying because it was never the same person and it always stopped when I confronted the person harassing me.

Had I not confronted those kids early on then it would have definitely turned into bullying.
Sometimes kids say and do mean things without the intent to make it a daily ritual of making someone's life miserable.

 

[Tez3]

Please don’t tell me I’m not doing my job. You have no idea what I dismiss and what I don’t dismiss. I don’t let anyone get away with humiliating someone.

I'm not. I am going entirely on what you posted before and nothing else.
You made a point of saying that you don't think a joke is bullying, I pointed out that many 'jokes' in fact aren't and they hurt. You cannot deny that. I went on to expand on that, ig you think that is getting at you are mistaken. You posted up something you yourself said was contentious, it's your ideas, others have their ideas as well, if you are going to attack me thinking I was making a personal attack on you for having my ideas then there can be no conversation and it shows you just wanted to post up your thoughts with no one commenting on them.

Baltimore's hard areas are just that. There are areas around there where stopping your car on the wrong corner is dangerous

I'm sure it is but if I can't expand on what I said earlier there's little point in discussion. Around where I live there are some who think they are hard but would be eaten alive by those further up the road in Newcastle.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I feel the same way about bullying being something that happens regularly. As a teen I was often harassed. I can't call it bullying because it was never the same person and it always stopped when I confronted the person harassing me.

Had I not confronted those kids early on then it would have definitely turned into bullying.
Sometimes kids say and do mean things without the intent to make it a daily ritual of making someone's life miserable.

Agreed. Bullying is another of those terms with no clear boundary, but I'd be hard-pressed to call most single incidents bullying. Some are - the target just shut them down or there was only the one opportunity - but most are just kids being bad at relating to each other. And even some repeated incidents don't become bullying. Like other things, it depends how it's received. There are things I (as that shy, scared-of-people child) found disturbing that other children shrugged off without a thought. So mean kids ("bullies") did more of those things to me than to others. They did them to others as a matter of course, but to me specifically to bully, because of how I reacted to them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm sure it is but if I can't expand on what I said earlier there's little point in discussion. Around where I live there are some who think they are hard but would be eaten alive by those further up the road in Newcastle.

I was just clarifying for you, since there's no reason you'd be familiar with that area.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Or they get pissed off their friend just got beaten then they beat you even worse

And what do you back this claim up with? Strategies in the martial arts that deal with group attacks often focus on taking out the leader.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And what do you back this claim up with? Strategies in the martial arts that deal with group attacks often focus on taking out the leader.

A strategy (even a universal one) doesn't define truth. Some groups will likely react each way. I haven't dealt enough with groups (none as an adult) to know what the likelihood is. I know some groups will back off if the leader is taken down (I experienced that many times growing up). Them not backing down is the other major possibility.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some cities hard areas are other's soft ones. Few men like to think of themselves as softer than others, most men like to think of themselves as being able to defend themselves but there are those who are beyond hard. These are the ones who don't care about consequences either to themselves or others. There is nothing you can do to scare them, they have no fear simply because they don't care. I know two people like this and know of several more.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to act like I'm tough by sharing my experiences. I was glad to move out of Baltimore. I may have different thoughts had I lived in a nicer community. There's one community that's on the outer edges of Baltimore that was really nice and rich. It w

And what do you back this claim up with? Strategies in the martial arts that deal with group attacks often focus on taking out the leader.

I would be careful about focusing too much on the leader for dealing with a group attack. A pack of equals will make it almost impossible to identify a leader if one exists at all. Groups like this are highly functional and dangerous. They also tend to have a goal that isn't dependent on a leader.