Help with terminology

[SFC JeffJ]

Reading through the threads here, I've noticed that the terminology that most of you use is radically different than what I've been taught in the style I study, Shiho Karano Kenpo Jitsu.

I was wondering if I could get some help in "translating" the terminolgy I know into what seems to be standard terms.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Keikai]

I know how you feel. The terminology my style uses is different from what I read from other styles.

I guess the best way is to translate into English what you want "converted" and then let others post their terminolgy from the English in the language it comes from.

Not too hard a problem. What do you want to know?

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Thanks, I'll start off with the basic wrist bends.

Do Te heneri: same side wrist bend. I have seen it refereed as a simple wrist bend. Elbow pointed down, wrist bend so palm is parallel to the ground.

Gyaku Te heneri: opposite side wrist bend. Twisting wrist bend.

Hanshin heneri: 1/2 body wrist rotation. similar to Aikido nikkyo but with a straight arm.

Zenshin heneri: full body wrist rotation. Opponents arms is straight out to the side, elbow pointed up. Hand is twisted up and around so the fingers are pointed up and palm is facing the shoulder. Compression is added to the triceps tendon and the hand.

That's a good start I think. Hope my descriptions were clear.

Jeff

 

[Keikai]

Hi Jeff

Your descriptions are a bit vague but I will give it a go. I do have a file with photos of the nine basic locks of the Tsutsumi Ryu system if you would like a copy? It is big so would have to send it one lock at a time.

Do Te Hineri Do is chest or body Te is hand and Hineri is twist

We would use the term Tekubi Hineri - Wrist Twist.

Gyaku Te Hineri I would translate as Gyaku = Reverse Te = Hand , Hineri = Twist Unless I saw a picture of the lock I don't know where it would relate to anything we do.

Hanshin Hineri Han = half, Shin = mind or spirit (I think) If the Nikkyo you speak of is the same as the one shown in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere page 181 I would call it Yoko Tekubi Hishigi = Side Wrist Crush

Zenshin Hineri . By the sound of your description I would call this Tai Gatame Ude Kujiki = Body Set Arm Breaking. I would also never apply pressure to the tendons. Locks for us are all on joints so I would apply pressure to the elbow with my elbow and drive the attacker back onto their heels in a crouch. You need to step away from the attacker to achieve this.

If I used the palm of my hand for the pressure I would be on the other side of the arm facing back toward the attacker and driving them back on their heels. This would be Ura Te Gatame Ude Kujiki = Reverse Hand Set Arm Breaking.

You sometimes see the term Kudaki but it basically means the same as Kujiki. We also apply pressure to the wrist and this would be Tekubi Hishigi = Wrist Crush.

Let me know if you would like a copy of the locks.

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I'll think I'll make this easier. I'll borrow a camera in a few days and post small pics of the techniques along with their names. Should make it a lot easier.

Jeff

 

[Keikai]

I have some photos but I need someone to tell me how to post them. Can you advise?

Greg

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I think you have to be a supporting member to post pics. Other than that, I don't know.

Jeff

 

[Keikai]

We may need to use email to exchange information and photos. I believe that i have set my profile to receive email.

Greg

 

[Shaolinwind]

I have some photos but I need someone to tell me how to post them. Can you advise?

Greg

Go to photobucket.com, start a photobucket (free) and upload the photos there. When you are logged on, it provides a link under each photo labeled "IMG" You can copy/paste right it into the text field when you post.

For instance, for this image I coped [IMG*]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/shaolinwind13/IMG_1014.jpg[/IMG*]
(minus the asterix). Voila! Picture in the post.

 

[Keikai]

Thank you Shaolinwind.

Here are some of the locks we use with our terminology. Sorry about the quality of photos.

Tekubi Hineri - Wrist Twist

Yoko Tekubi Hineri - Side Wrist Lock

Tai Gatame Ude Kujiki - Body Set Arm Breaking

Hope that helps so far JeffJ

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[SFC JeffJ]

First is dote heneri, gyakute heneri, hanshin, followed by zenshin

 

[Keikai]

It looks like your

Dote Heneri - It looks like a Tekubi Hishigi - Wrist Crush but the photo is so close it is hard to determi direction.

Gyaku Heneri - looks a bit like what we would call Kote Hineri - Forearm Twist

Hanshin - Yoko Tekubi Hishigi - Side Wrist Crush (One of about 6 ways we have of doing it)

Zenshin - Te Gatame Ude Kujiki - Hand Set Arm Breaking (Similar to the Body Set Arm breaking in the photo - the elbow is used to drive the attacker back onto their heels rather that the hand. We use the hand when facing the opposite way to the attacker but still drive back onto their heels)

More Wrist Locks

Tekubi Hishigi - Wrist Crush

Tekubi Te Nage - Wrist Hand Throw (Aikido - Shiho Nage - Four Corner Throw)

Ude Gaeshi - Arm Turning

Yoko Tekubi Hishigi - Side Wrist Crush (Another method)

The Wrsit Twist is the other wrsit lock.

Elbow Locks

Kote Hineri - Forearm Twist

The Body Set Arm Breaking is the other elbow lock

Shoulder Locks

Ude Garami Henkawaza - Variant Arm Entanglement

Ude Garami - Arm Entanglement

That just about covers the basic arm locks of the Tsutsumi system.

Hope that helps

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

More Wrist Locks

Tekubi Hishigi - Wrist Crush

In our system this technique has different name depending on which Ryuha it came from. Takagi Yoshin-ryu call this Ura Gyaku.

Tekubi Te Nage - Wrist Hand Throw (Aikido - Shiho Nage - Four Corner Throw)

In Takagi Yoshin-ryu this is a variation of Oni Kudaki. In Dentokan (Hakko-ryu) it has many name depending on the Kata, but the generic name is Niho Nage.

Ude Gaeshi - Arm Turning

Yoko Tekubi Hishigi - Side Wrist Crush (Another method)

Looks like a variation of Hon Gyaku (Takagi Yoshin) or variation of Shutozume (Dentokan)

The Wrsit Twist is the other wrsit lock.

Elbow Locks

Kote Hineri - Forearm Twist

The Body Set Arm Breaking is the other elbow lock

In takagi yoshin, this is considered as a variation of Take Ori. In Dentokan, this is Sandan Tekubidori.

Shoulder Locks

Ude Garami Henkawaza - Variant Arm Entanglement

In Goshinbudo Jujutsu this is called an Ushiro Eri Jime Ude Garami. Long unwieldy name though. So I call this police lock (off course behind sensei's back. Not on his face )

Ude Garami - Arm Entanglement

That just about covers the basic arm locks of the Tsutsumi system.

Hope that helps

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

That one is a variant of Oni Kudaki.

Thank you for your kindness to share the basic techniques of your Tsutsumi system. Any connections to Jan de Jong sensei?

 

[Keikai]

Thank you for your kindness to share the basic techniques of your Tsutsumi system. Any connections to Jan de Jong sensei?

Jan de Jong was my Sensei from 1968 until he passed away in 2003. I did all my ju jutsu training with him.

Thank you for the terminology in your system. I think that the names you use are from a modern form of Japanese and ours are an older style.

The lock you refer to Ushiro Eri Jime Ude Garami we usually shorten to Henkawaza which simply means "variant". The first time we learnt it it was taught as a police grip.

Greg Palmer

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

Jan de Jong was my Sensei from 1968 until he passed away in 2003. I did all my ju jutsu training with him.

What a coincidence. I just talked to sensei, and apparently he just talked today with Mr. Prayitno, one of a senior practitioner of Jujutsu in Indonesia. He is a friend of Mr. De Jong.

Thank you for the terminology in your system. I think that the names you use are from a modern form of Japanese and ours are an older style.

I think so, because in the Ryuha system, there are (usually) no specific name for specific technique. Instead we have names for specific sequences/patterns, called "Koryu Kata". for example, in Takagi Yoshin-ryu, we learned "Kasumi Dori", "Dou Gaeshi" and "Karami Dori". And each sequence contains more than one technique, for example, Dou Gaeshi already contains atemi, a takedown and a finishing lock. I think our senseis apply modern vernacular Japanese to specific techniques on each sequences, to help us learn. After all, we have live outside the Dojo, unlike ancient Samurai who lives just for fighting