Help My knee's are gone

[terryl965]

I was wondering if any body here on, may know any good exercise to help streghten the knee's mine are just about gone. Everytime I throw high roundhouse for a hour or two it takes two to three day's for my kneeto stop swelling like a cantalope, any help wpuld be accepted.... God Bless America

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Hi terry

I have knee problems, too, but I think they are very different than yours. So my advice will probably not be very good. The best general advice I can give is to try and strengthen any weaker muscles around the knee to help hold it in place. But if you're kicking for hours, I don't envision you as having a lot of weak muscles....

 

[TigerWoman]

Are you jumping or just on the floor?

I have been jumping two classes Mon., rest Tues., Wed. 1 session, Thurs. Light jumping my own practice, Fri. 2 classes, Sat., Sun, walk or Total Gym.

My knees made noise when I STARTED TKD. (fragments, bone, cartilage, broken off inside the knee). Well, I don't hear anything anymore, maybe they've smoothed down. :idunno: No, actually, my MRI on my left knee showed that I had worn a divot into the bottom bone. Not good.

If you are swelling up after practice you have inflammation causing synovial fluid to buildup inside your knee, that's your body reaction to the inflammation. If you have little cartilage left, from wearing that cartilage cushion down, bone fragments break off and help cause the irritation and subsequent inflammation. Probably have arthritis too, the way your body trys to compensate for the lack of cartilage, build calcium bony deposits that irritate the situation further and cause pain.

What you can do: Take Glucosamine Sulfate-get a good brand (better than Glucoasamine Chondroitin), MSM, reduces inflammation, religiously for at least three months to see results. Actually, I took it for a couple of years and then I figured why spend this money when I feel great, so I stopped. Didn't take long and I was in agony again and it took awhile to get it back to the previous pain reducing level inside my body. Glucosamine is supposed to help rebuild cartilage. ?? I probably have been wearing it away as fast as I make it anyway. But I do know it makes my knees feel better. This is pretty widely known among the medical community too. Ask you doc the next time. I take the Gluco. early in the morning so it doesn't interfere with the ibuprofen. Can't remember exactly but it doesn't work as well with ibuprofen present. Then I take the 2nd dose at bedtime. I also take Advil or ibuprofen, at least a half hour before jumping to head off the inflammation, swelling effect. After the ibuprofen wears off you will be fine. If you really do hard jumping, ice your knee afterwards or ice it anyway if you want to be good to your knees and save them. I take Dixie cups 4oz.size and fill them up prior and freeze. Peel back the edge and go ice on the skin around the knee-massage a little going round until it feels numb then go on around.

I have other problems with my knees too, side ligaments, hamstring, cartilage torn on one knee but I do exercises, braces for those.

Hope this helps you, its work, but you've really got to be good to your knees.
TW

 

[terryl965]

Thanks TigerWoman the problem is no cartiledge in the left knee, I was told about some type of Alternative medicines that might help, guess I should give them a try. thanks for the advise.Fiesty Mouse I have plenty of muscle around my knee's my thighs are like tree trunks just bad knees... Thanks again and God Bless America

 

[The Kai]

In my experience people have a tendency to lock on thier knee joinys when kicking.
I try to train myself and my students to stop short of (hyper) extension by using the muscles of the leg to brake the motion - can also use a dynamic tension to tighten muscles.
At first the stoppage is noticably short, but will get more subtle as time goes by.
I take it to extreme and try to never straightne my legs including when I am just standing around
also if you do any squats make sure you are dropping your weight through your heels and not through your toes (real big knee hurtin)
Hope this helps

 

[shesulsa]

I had an ACL replacement and my mom had knee replacement. For one thing, check to make sure your hamstrings are as strong as they need to be...there is a ratio ( I don't remember what it is anymore) of quad strength to ham strength. Ask an orthopedist what that should be, get evaluated by a Physical Therapist to see if you fit this range, and if not, make therapeutic exercises part of your routine.

If you have no cartilage left, then you should barely be able to walk...an MRI could verify just how much cartilage you do have left. Nowadays, they are injecting chicken cartilage into the knee in the hopes of alleviating some of the cartilage-loss based problems.

The Kai also has a VERY valid point. I sometimes see people snapping their kicks so hard I wince. Your kicks should come from your hips - never your knees. And NEVER EVER lock out or hyperextend your knees. Seig (bows to Sieg) has an avatar that just makes me go "ow" everytime I see it - the support leg in that avatar is hyperextended. Ow, ow ow.

So, see a GOOD surgeon that isn't anxious to cut you open yet and a good physical therapist who knows martial arts injuries and challenges.

If I knew where you live, I might be able to give you advice on who to see. PM me privately if you so desire.

 

[TigerWoman]

I don't believe you kick from the hip or the knee, rather you are using your hip flexion and your knee in coordination with your quadricep, hamstrings and lower leg muscles especially the calves for the final snap. We have to snap fast in TKD. It pretty much is a requirement from blue belt on. Nature of the beast. How else would you break a board with a two finger hold doing jump spin heel? Snap fast.

Thanks, Shesulsa for the tip on the hamstrings. I never heard that ratio. But I looked it up on the net and it goes anywhere to 60 ham/100 quad for most sports to 80% of quad strength for martial arts. Even higher if you are doing this jump spin heel thing faster --90%. My quads are pretty strong. I even worked on my VM (quad near inside knee) so that I would have more stabilitiy. The rehab. people gave me an exercise with a rubber band thing for knee curls though, for the hamstrings. I suppose I should do those-only did those for a month or so. I had forgotten and now I know they are important. I have had alot of hamstring problems on both legs lately. Upper and lower, alternating. And I do alot of warmups before and after stretches too. But, this hopefully will help get them stronger. TW

 

[Bushi40]

Terry

You are kicking too long of a time length. Keep it no longer then 15 minutes at a time, and try to understand the physics of the kick. you are probely kicking incorrect. What may be happening is that the upper portion of the leg is still in motion while the foot is making contact or free kicking in the air. this applies too much pressure on the kneec cap, tendons etc and the soft tissue becomes inflaimed.

Try having the upper portion of the leg stop just prior to the lower portion of the leg coming out. Give the knee a a week or two of no kicking for the inflamation to go down, see a doctor for an anti-inflamatory pills.

Grand Master Gene Perceval

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Terry as I have gotten a little older I just do not kick the air anymore. Most of my kicking is done on the heavy bag and that does not seem to bother me at all. When I do have to show kicks in the air or I practice a little of that then I really do not lock my kicks out. I would consult with a physician to see what options you have. I know of a practitioner who had some shots that basically put a gel like substance in their knees that acts like cartilage. They had excellent success with this.

 

[KEritano]

How's is your flexibility? This may also be stressing the joint if one side is more flexible than the other ... quads vs hams.

Kicking for HOURS is not a good idea, you are over taxing the muscles and joints. You should only kicking for a few minutes, then change. Another idea ... try training in a pool. If your knees don't swell, then the training floor may be too hard for your joints.

 

[ATC]

If your knee is swelling after every session then you will want to see a doctor. My knees use to swell after playing basketball every time so I went to see a doctor and low in behold I had a torn meniscus and cartilage damage. A simple procedure fixed that and I was back in action 4 weeks later with no pain or swelling after that.

Neither X-rays nor MRI showed the cartilage damage but the doctor said that once they were inside to fix the meniscus they would see any damage that did not show up on the MRI. He said that MRI’s miss a great deal of soft tissue and cartilage damage. He stated that they almost always see more damage when inside to fix something else.

See a doctor.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Tips:

Ditto on the Glucosimine. But I have been taking the Chondroiton.

If you can stomach it take 2 Ibuprofen a half hour before training like many runners do.

Minimize heavy impact like jumping and heavy bag kicking if you ahve no cartilage to cushion the shock.

Walgreens and CVS sell a wrap with a pouch and velcro containing a reuseable ice pack. Apply as soon as possible after training for 3o minutes like Ball players do.

 

[Brad Dunne]

There is really nothing, exercise wise, to help or fix knee problems, when the area is just plain worn out. Now to lessen the degree of pain, I'm sorry to say that kicking must be greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated. Kind of like the joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says, "Doc, it hurts when I do this"..............Doc says, "then don't do that"........That will be $200, see the nurse on your way out!...........Seriously though, age and constant use of certain parts will more than likely take a toll. Perhaps it's time to review what you can and cannot do and let that dictate your future journey in the arts. We all know that you have a passion for TKD, but TKD is a kicking discipline and it would be fair to say that it's not in your best interest to keep on in that direction. Take care and as ATC said, see the doctor........:asian:

 

[wade]

Amputation, plain and simple. Nuff said. Terry, you know where I am coming from so take this for what it is worth........................

BTW, even if you are walking on your knees I strongly suggest you still be able to do your breaking, sparring, self defense and anything else needed for your upcoming test.

Hmmm, does this sound like I'm getting soft? Hope not, reputation doncha know?

 

[karatemom]

Wish I had some advice, the swelling doesn't sound good at all. Maybe a Dr. visit is needed?

I also take glucousamine and condroitin and recently starting taking COQ10. My knees do pop and crack since I've been doing TKD but you've got 20+ years of kicking on me so I can only imagine what you're dealing with :uhoh:

Is there anyway you can give the knees a rest for a while? I know stupid question... just a thought.

 

[MasterWright]

Hi Terry,

You have had some good advice here already. Maybe a few less kicks for a while until you find a solution. Just to keep from causing further damage.

 

[Manny]

I was wondering if any body here on, may know any good exercise to help streghten the knee's mine are just about gone. Everytime I throw high roundhouse for a hour or two it takes two to three day's for my kneeto stop swelling like a cantalope, any help wpuld be accepted.... God Bless America

Terry how old are you? I'm 41 and all my body hurts the day afther training, oh yes, my ankles,my feet,my knees sufer alot afther a session of TKD.

Manny