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Manny

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Hello everyone, I am here visiting you, wnta can you tell me about this forum? I've been out for a while so don't know how things are going here.

I've been atending TKD classes, however it's because of the working out and to stay involved around martial arts, the same thing here, kidy sport oriented classes, lots of exercise and little tkd technique so basically got tyred of going agaist the stream but I am doing my thing in other way.

I am taking a hap ki do course trying to learn more self defenbse/martial arts and to try to improve my tkd skills, hkd has been a little hard on me because of the rolling and fallinng but I am happy and perhaps if everithing works fine in one year I could get my BB in HKD.

Basically tuis is all folks for the moment.

El Manny
 

andyjeffries

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One year to get a black belt....hmmm

As probably 99% of Taekwondo students in Korea do.

Remember a black belt doesn't mean an expert, it means a competent beginner. I know people who haven't yet achieved it or recently achieved it hate hearing that, but it's how it's viewed by the founders and everyone in Korea - it's only in the west we assign some mythical status to a 1st Dan.
 

Professor Random

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As probably 99% of Taekwondo students in Korea do.

Remember a black belt doesn't mean an expert, it means a competent beginner. I know people who haven't yet achieved it or recently achieved it hate hearing that, but it's how it's viewed by the founders and everyone in Korea - it's only in the west we assign some mythical status to a 1st Dan.
Wait hol up, people are getting their black belts in one year?
 

TrueJim

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Wait hol up, people are getting their black belts in one year?

As Andy points out, taekwondo is apparently handled very differently in Korea. My sense is that there's a much bigger divide there between "casual taekwondo" and "serious taekwondo", as compared to the U.S. Casual taekwondoins there can get a black belt in a year at one of the many "casual" schools. On the other hand, serious taekwondoins in Korea often study at one of the sports universities, they represent their cities on city-sponsored taekwondo competition teams, etc. Conversely, in the U.S. it seems to me that it's not uncommon for serious students and casual students to practice at the same school -- and as you point out, it's common here for dan rank to require more than just a year's practice.

The school I attend here in the U.S. is associated with the MBA chain in Korea. Our instructors here in the U.S. sometimes go to Korea to work at MBA schools as "internships" -- and vice versa. In fact, the MBA schools in Korea sometimes like to use photos of our students here in the U.S. for their advertising. For example, this devilishly attractive ad: 네이버 지도 ;) When our instructors get back from their internships in Korea, they often comment on the marked difference between "serious" and "casual" taekwondo in South Korea.
 

Professor Random

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As Andy points out, taekwondo is apparently handled very differently in Korea. My sense is that there's a much bigger divide there between "casual taekwondo" and "serious taekwondo", as compared to the U.S. Casual taekwondoins there can get a black belt in a year at one of the many "casual" schools. On the other hand, serious taekwondoins in Korea often study at one of the sports universities, they represent their cities on city-sponsored taekwondo competition teams, etc. Conversely, in the U.S. it seems to me that it's not uncommon for serious students and casual students to practice at the same school -- and as you point out, it's common here for dan rank to require more than just a year's practice.

The school I attend here in the U.S. is associated with the MBA chain in Korea. Our instructors here in the U.S. sometimes go to Korea to work at MBA schools as "internships" -- and vice versa. In fact, the MBA schools in Korea sometimes like to use photos of our students here in the U.S. for their advertising. For example, this devilishly attractive ad: 네이버 지도 ;) When our instructors get back from their internships in Korea, they often comment on the marked difference between "serious" and "casual" taekwondo in South Korea.
So people are taking one year to get their black belt? Heck I been in this for 4 years and still don't got my black belt :D.
Or maybe I misunderstood this.
 

MA_Student

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As probably 99% of Taekwondo students in Korea do.

Remember a black belt doesn't mean an expert, it means a competent beginner. I know people who haven't yet achieved it or recently achieved it hate hearing that, but it's how it's viewed by the founders and everyone in Korea - it's only in the west we assign some mythical status to a 1st Dan.
A black belt should be able to teach, how the heck can you teach in a competent way when you've only been training for a year
 

TrueJim

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So people are taking one year to get their black belt? Heck I been in this for 4 years and still don't got my black belt :D.
Or maybe I misunderstood this.

As I understand it, in South Korea it's not uncommon to award a black belt to a "casual" student once they can perform all 8 of the Taegeuk poomsae with minimal competence. Here in the U.S., it's been my experience that U.S. schools require more than this: they often require more than just 8 poomsae, they often require more than knowing JUST poomsae, and they often require more than minimal competence.
 

Professor Random

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As I understand it, in South Korea it's not uncommon to award a black belt to a "casual" student once they can perform all 8 of the Taegeuk poomsae with minimal competence. Here in the U.S., it's been my experience that U.S. schools require more than this: they often require more than just 8 poomsae, they often require more than knowing JUST poomsae, and they often require more than minimal competence.
Ah now I think I understand. Hmm, I mean if you know all of the poomsaes then I suppose you earned a black belt? But still 1 year isn't that long. If it was me I would start working on the poomsaes as soon as I start and go from white to black. That's just what it sounds like tbh.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Ah now I think I understand. Hmm, I mean if you know all of the poomsaes then I suppose you earned a black belt? But still 1 year isn't that long. If it was me I would start working on the poomsaes as soon as I start and go from white to black. That's just what it sounds like tbh.
Black belt means a much different thing in Korea than it does in America. The concept that you're "a beginner at black belt", from what I understand, is something that's definitive there, not something to be debated like in America.
 

donald1

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Good for you. You got tkd and now hkd and a possible bb test in one year? Sounds like you have a full plate in front of you. Good luck!
 

TrueJim

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Ah now I think I understand. Hmm, I mean if you know all of the poomsaes then I suppose you earned a black belt? But still 1 year isn't that long. If it was me I would start working on the poomsaes as soon as I start and go from white to black. That's just what it sounds like tbh.

It's their national sport...as long as they're not telling me what NFL football is supposed to look like, I'm not gonna judge. :D
 

Tony Dismukes

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For those of you who don't know Manny, he's been practicing and teaching Tae Kwon Do for many years now (3rd dan, I believe) and has a bit of experience in other arts as well. He's been away from the forum for a while and apparently practicing Hapkido during that time. I believe he's saying that he might only need another year of Hapkido in addition to what he has already done in order to reach his Hapkido black belt.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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For those of you who don't know Manny, he's been practicing and teaching Tae Kwon Do for many years now (3rd dan, I believe) and has a bit of experience in other arts as well. He's been away from the forum for a while and apparently practicing Hapkido during that time. I believe he's saying that he might only need another year of Hapkido in addition to what he has already done in order to reach his Hapkido black belt.
That's how I interpreted it as well.
 

Buka

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Hi Manny. Hope you're well, bro.
 

andyjeffries

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Wait hol up, people are getting their black belts in one year?

Yep, almost all of them. The reason is that a)they train 5 times per week and b)Koreans view a 1st Dan/Poom as a beginner that can now be told corrections to make without needing constant nagging/reminding to do it. Not an instructor in any shape or form.
 

andyjeffries

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A black belt should be able to teach, how the heck can you teach in a competent way when you've only been training for a year

Why should a black belt be able to teach? In Taekwondo you have to be a 4th Dan before you can promote anyone to any rank, and in Korea you have to be both a 4th Dan AND a certified Kukkiwon Master Instructor Course graduate before you can open your own dojang.

Nothing changes at 1st Dan/Poom except the belt around your waist, you have no more privileges/powers/whatever than you had at white belt. At least in Korea.

In the west we think of a black belt as an expert, someone that can kill you with a single touch. In Korea it's viewed very differently.
 

andyjeffries

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Ah now I think I understand. Hmm, I mean if you know all of the poomsaes then I suppose you earned a black belt? But still 1 year isn't that long. If it was me I would start working on the poomsaes as soon as I start and go from white to black. That's just what it sounds like tbh.

Think of it this way, in most dojang if you train for 2 x 1 hour sessions per week and graded every 3 months for 10 grades (10th Geup -> 1st Dan), you'd get your black belt in 2.5 years with 260 hours of training.

In Korea, they train every weekday for a minimum of 1 hour, and grade to 1st Dan in a year. That works out to 260 hours as well.

That's considering children and assuming they are skills ready for every grading, just considering time eligibility.

For adults, we'd say you'd need more hours, but my friend in Korea runs a gym for adults only. His students commonly train 2-3 hours every night and up to 5-6 if they really want to (one of my coloured belt students visited his gym for a week and trained for 6 hours every day - from the time it opened until it closed every day).

So in a year, it's entirely feasible to get to 1st Dan/Poom in Korea. Particularly if you adjust the expectation that a 1st Dan isn't a qualified teacher, but just a competent beginner.
 

skribs

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At our school, 1st Keubs must assist with 25 classes to gain leadership experience, and more and more hours for each Dan rank. Most of our black belts can't lead a class, but also most of them are capable of working 1-on-1 with a student in an assistant capacity.

A black belt should be able to teach, how the heck can you teach in a competent way when you've only been training for a year

I was at my school for 1 year before my master asked me to be an instructor. I was just a blue belt (6th keub out of 12), but I was taking 4+ classes a week and I practiced probably 2-3 hours a day at home. I also had experience as a kid, 3-4 years worth of class 15 years ago. He put me into a boot camp, where for the next year I was assisting with 15+ classes a week so I could learn how to teach.

It's actually kind of funny, because he told me to copy him exactly when he's teaching so the students would have an easier time following me. I've since developed a slight Korean accent, especially when I'm teaching.

--------

Back to my original point, after 1 year I've seen some students that have the leadership capacity already to teach. I've also seen some students that are 2nd degree black belts who have been studying for years with barely any leadership capacity. The ability to do and the ability to teach are two different things.
 

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