Having your hands up. Self defence.

[drop bear]

OK. This has come up again apparently nobody shapes up in a self defence situation.
So this dosent happen.

Can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't get your hands up in a self defence?

Because it seems insane that you would train with your hands up. For the pretty much universal reason of not getting your head smashed in. And then throw it out the window.

 

[Transk53]

The guy to the right a bit of a showboat maybe. Other than that I don't why you would not get the hands up. Didn't seem like the altercation was going to get serious from the get go. BTW, what was the radio show about?

 

[DaveB]

You should probably clarify what people mean before you start new threads. Unless you are intending to post a straw man argument.

1. Consensual violence - blokes arguing over nonsense and refusing to back down, is not self defense, it is street fighting and it is illegal.
2. Even in most of these cases fights don't begin from fighting guard postures. People don't usually square off, put up their dukes, and start circling looking for openings.
3. Finding one or two examples of something on YouTube doesn't prove anything about anything.

 

[drop bear]

You should probably clarify what people mean before you start new threads. Unless you are intending to post a straw man argument.

1. Consensual violence - blokes arguing over nonsense and refusing to back down, is not self defense, it is street fighting and it is illegal.
2. Even in most of these cases fights don't begin from fighting guard postures. People don't usually square off, put up their dukes, and start circling looking for openings.
3. Finding one or two examples of something on YouTube doesn't prove anything about anything.

OK. Why don't you circle and look for openings? Is this because most people don't do it?

 

[Transk53]

OK. Why don't you circle and look for openings? Is this because most people don't do it?

Most wouldn't probably. Then again one would have to be untrained or an idiot to wade in. Circling for an opening is just basic right?

 

[drop bear]

The guy to the right a bit of a showboat maybe. Other than that I don't why you would not get the hands up. Didn't seem like the altercation was going to get serious from the get go. BTW, what was the radio show about?

The altercation was just an example.

There is this theory that in self defence situations you don't shape up, don't use foot work. You effectively do the opposite to what is considered safe in training.

And I am interested to know why.

I know I get my hands up in self defence because I am pretty confident it gets me bashed less.

The radio station was discussing better water management.

 

[drop bear]

Most wouldn't probably. Then again one would have to be untrained or an idiot to wade in. Circling for an opening is just basic right?

That is kind of my stance on the issue.

 

[Transk53]

The altercation was just an example.

There is this theory that in self defence situations you don't shape up, don't use foot work. You effectively do the opposite to what is considered safe in training.

And I am interested to know why.

I know I get my hands up in self defence because I am pretty confident it gets me bashed less.

The radio station was discussing better water management.

Don't know either tbh. I know my hands go up into defensive posture. Mind you Bear, most of the situations I have dealt with, most struggled to actually throw a punch. Guess road rage like that would be the same, had one recently. Bit of mouthing off rather than a concentrated effort to get in there.

 

[Transk53]

That is kind of my stance on the issue.

Yeah to me the exception would be someone having confidence bordering on arrogance. Still the same result. Over confidence breeding incompetence. Circle everytime for me.

 

[DaveB]

There is this theory that in self defence situations you don't shape up, don't use foot work. You effectively do the opposite to what is considered safe in training.

And I am interested to know why.

No. There really isn't.

 

[hoshin1600]

drop bear , what is the point of the thread and the clip? i dont understand where your going with this. the clip shows one guy swinging and the other guy covering. are you saying that the guy throwing punches should have his hands up doing "peek a boo" style ? or are you showing the effectivness of keeping your hands up when punches are hitting you?

Can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't get your hands up in a self defence?

or maybe you are taking something someone said in another thread and taking it out of context.....
so here is an example of why people dont have their hands up.. you just dont see it coming.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't get your hands up in a self defence?

To be "on guard" is a 2 edges sword. it inform your opponent that you have some MA training and also you are ready to fight (CON). Of course you can protect your head (PRO), but do you need to be on guard if you are ready to shoot at your opponent's leg/legs?

My hands drop next to my knee. You throw a straight head punch toward my face. I can:

1. throw a front toe punch kick at your belly (leg is longer than the arm).
2. use stealing footwork to spin my body, swing a 45 degree downward "hay-maker" that not only knock your punch down, if you move in too fast, my "hay-maker" may hit on the back of your head and knock you down (use circular move to counter straight line move).
3. drop level and shoot at your leg/legs.

MA is a cheating game.

- Drop your guard to invite a punch.
- Raise your guard to invite a kick.

 

[marques]

OK. This has come up again apparently nobody shapes up in a self defence situation.
So this dosent happen.

Can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't get your hands up in a self defence?

Because it seems insane that you would train with your hands up. For the pretty much universal reason of not getting your head smashed in. And then throw it out the window.

Clearly better than nothing. And easier than most of things.
But a trained person should do more, to deal with smarter aggressors.
Ex: To MOVE, not easy in real life I know, but training is for something. Just moving is already half defense...And to SEE what is happening, more aggressors coming? Knife? ...
Just hands up, this way, only works against unskilled people...

 

[JowGaWolf]

To be "on guard" is a 2 edges sword. it inform your opponent that you have some MA training and also you are ready to fight (CON). Of course you can protect your head (PRO), but do you need to be on guard if you are ready to shoot at your opponent's leg/legs?

My hands drop next to my knee. You throw a straight head punch toward my face. I can:

1. throw a front toe punch kick at your belly (leg is longer than the arm).
2. use stealing footwork to spin my body, swing a 45 degree downward "hay-maker" that not only knock your punch down, if you move in too fast, my "hay-maker" may hit on the back of your head and knock you down (use circular move to counter straight line move).
3. drop level and shoot at your leg/legs.

MA is a cheating game.

- Drop your guard to invite a punch.
- Raise your guard to invite a kick.

The first line of defense should always be the stance. Even if the hands are down the feet and legs should be the first "defensive" system to come on line. Eyes and ears are always on. A person can't retreat, counter, defend, or attack if the legs aren't in a position to make those things happen. A person doesn't have to be in a full on fight stance, but those legs and feet should be working together to maintain distance or working to make sure that you aren't in a bad position. Attackers tend to have a "lion like" approach as they try to position themselves in a way that will make their attack more effective.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The first line of defense should always be the stance.

Agree! When I was young, one time I got into argument with some gang members. I turned my body side way. One guy said, "Are you ready to fight?" If side way stance can mean "ready to fight", the "on guard" stance can send out much stronger "ready to fight" signal. Sometime, that's not good in a self-defense situation when you just want to give your opponent a "surprise attack".

more aggressors coming? Knife? ...

Also if you raise your arms up, how will you be able to draw your knife (or gun) out of your pocket if needed?

 

[drop bear]

drop bear , what is the point of the thread and the clip? i dont understand where your going with this. the clip shows one guy swinging and the other guy covering. are you saying that the guy throwing punches should have his hands up doing "peek a boo" style ? or are you showing the effectivness of keeping your hands up when punches are hitting you?


or maybe you are taking something someone said in another thread and taking it out of context.....
so here is an example of why people dont have their hands up.. you just dont see it coming.

So "that they are untrained or idiots"seem to be consistant.

Do you feel having their hands up and using footwork may have helped prevent those sucker punches.

Out of context?

This is has been put down as an absolute so many times it is practically a rule.

 

[drop bear]

To be "on guard" is a 2 edges sword. it inform your opponent that you have some MA training and also you are ready to fight (CON). Of course you can protect your head (PRO), but do you need to be on guard if you are ready to shoot at your opponent's leg/legs?

My hands drop next to my knee. You throw a straight head punch toward my face. I can:

1. throw a front toe punch kick at your belly (leg is longer than the arm).
2. use stealing footwork to spin my body, swing a 45 degree downward "hay-maker" that not only knock your punch down, if you move in too fast, my "hay-maker" may hit on the back of your head and knock you down (use circular move to counter straight line move).
3. drop level and shoot at your leg/legs.

MA is a cheating game.

- Drop your guard to invite a punch.
- Raise your guard to invite a kick.

Yeah. You fight with the tools that work for you. The reason people get their hands up is not some esoteric one. It is a practical one.

 

[Transk53]

Mmm, classic thread turning to over complicated

 

[Transk53]

Yeah. You fight with the tools that work for you. The reason people get their hands up is not some esoteric one. It is a practical one.

Agree. The trick is the response obviously

 

[JP3]

To me, I agree with Bear... it is generally an accepted truth that it is a "Good Thing" to be bashed less.

Real world, start of confrontation having arms simply in front of you - not necessarily even standing in a guarding posture (ala boxing/fighting stances) is a much more survivable position than to be caught witht he hands down at the sides. Shoot, if nothing else, a person has to cover a little extra distance and get over/under/around/through the arms. Basics, to me. Hands up, arms in front, chin down, eyes open, weight on balls of feet and knees bent..... 1st day in class stuff, but very very important, and oftentimes the 1st things forgotten when le caca strikes ventilateur.