Has anyone had to use Wing-Chun for self-defense ?

Kung Fu Wang

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attack the attack, always pursue center, angle to take position, hands on top, attack and defense in a single action, responsive footwork, direct and efficient, etc…
Those are a good strategies.

1. Attack the attack - When your opponent attacks you, instead of trying to play defense, you attack him at the same time.

2. Always pursue center - If you attack your opponent's right/left side, his left/right side body will spin and attack you back. If you attack his center, he can't spin.

3. Angle to take position - The foot sweep is a good example, before you sweep, you have to put your foot at the right angle.

4. Hand on top - Let your opponent to feel your body weight.

5. Attack and defense in a single action - 1 is better than 1, 2.

6. Responsive footwork - Move your body out of the attacking path is more important than just to block a punch.

I will add in

7. Arms inside - If your arms are inside of your opponent's arms, you can separate his arms away from his head and open his center.
 
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Bayroum

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I meant full-contact as in training with a resisting partner. Pads, no pads, some pads, fight club... whatever. There are obviously varying degrees of contact. For example, both MMA and Muay Thai have gloves and are considered full-contact (according to IFMA rules).


Tough question, I'm not sure how to answer that. IMO, there aren't really any stand-alone "techniques". So to me, it's like asking what I think about the entire system. In many aspects, it is simply about developing the punch.

Wing Chun at its core is more a way of training for fighting than it is a group of techniques or pre-determined answers. We build skill utilizing all of the concepts and principles of the system in unison, creating what I often refer to as an "action". Some of which are; adapt to the opponent, attack the attack, always pursue center, angle to take position, hands on top, attack and defense in a single action, responsive footwork, direct and efficient, etc… All of this is driven by mechanics that start with the vertical punch and proper elbow position.

In this way of thinking, potential applications are directly dependent on a greater and greater ability to implement the skills, concepts and structure of the system into a single reaction.
Ah yeah. Then I fully agree.

I talked to someone. I am gonna start with Wing-Chun in a month. The way they made the training sounds ideal to me.
 

marvin8

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Tough question, I'm not sure how to answer that. IMO, there aren't really any stand-alone "techniques". So to me, it's like asking what I think about the entire system. In many aspects, it is simply about developing the punch.

Wing Chun at its core is more a way of training for fighting than it is a group of techniques or pre-determined answers. We build skill utilizing all of the concepts and principles of the system in unison, creating what I often refer to as an "action". Some of which are; adapt to the opponent, attack the attack, always pursue center, angle to take position, hands on top, attack and defense in a single action, responsive footwork, direct and efficient, etc… All of this is driven by mechanics that start with the vertical punch and proper elbow position.

In this way of thinking, potential applications are directly dependent on a greater and greater ability to implement the skills, concepts and structure of the system into a single reaction.
Excerpt from "Principles:"

Wang Kiu said:
The “Kun Kut” is a collection of 5 principles, also known as the recurring rules of the Wing Chun fist. When all these 5 principles are applied at all times during a combat, or training situation, one will realise how well Wing Chun is actually built up. These rules actually give guidance on how to make use of your arms, legs and body in any situation and will ensure you will always have the upper hand in combat. In the end, these principles are much more important than the individual techniques, because they will allow you to improvise during new or unfamiliar occurrences. As the saying goes: ”Give the man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime.”

Kun = Remember / Returning / Repeating
Kut = Rule(s)
Kun Kut = The recurring rules of the fist

The 5 principles are:​

  • Loi Lau Heui Sung
  • Teut Sao Tjik Chung
  • Dim Dim Chiu Ng
  • Bou Bou Cheui Ying
  • Cham Tsiang Sao Chong
To enable you to fully understand these principles they are described below...

Excerpt from "Ip Man’s Kuen Kuit – The Wing Chun Chops:"

Ip Man said:

Maxims of Wing Chun

  • Retain what comes in, send off what retreats. Rush in on loss of hand contact.
  • Do not be lax when your opponent is not advancing.
  • Once your opponent moves, his center of gravity changes.
  • Make the first move to have control. Attack according to timing.
  • Timing is achieved through practice.
  • A strong attitude and posture gives an advantage over your opponent.
  • Being alert and adapting to the situation allows maximum results for minimum effort.
  • The body follows the movement of the hands. The waist and the stance move together.
  • Complement the hands with posture to make good use of the centerline.
  • The eyes and the mind travel together, paying attention to leading edge of attack.
  • Charge into the opponent. Execute three moves together.
  • Strike any presented posture if it is there. Otherwise strike where you see motion. Beware of sneak attacks, leakage attacks and invisible centerline attacks.
  • Soft and relaxed strength will put your opponent in jeopardy.
  • Coordinate the hands and feet. Movement is together.
  • Do not take risks and you will always connect to the target.
  • Have confidence and your calmness will dominate the situation.
  • Occupy the inner gate to strike deep into the defense.
  • To win in an instant is a superior achievement.
  • The Yin Yang principle should be thoroughly understood.
  • The theory of Wing Chun has no limit in it applications.
  • Be humble to request your teacher for guidance.
  • Understand the principles for your training.
  • Upon achieving the highest level of proficiency, the application of techniques will vary according to the opponent.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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I don't think this represents a self-defence situation. He is using chain punches, which are used in WT, but how does it look with an attacker who comes at you with a knife or two attackers swining at you on a night out with wifey.

Positive thing I remember is sparring against a WT guy in my TKD school ages ago. He hit me in the face quite a lot, which usually people do not manage very often and his strikes were hard as steel.
That a given approach doesn't work in some situations doesn't invalidate it in all situations. You just saw that approach work on a committed, highly trained martial artist. That suggests it'd work pretty well in many other situations, with less-capable opponents.
 

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I’ve seen a few very capable WC masters who’ve used it in real life situations. One was a cop
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I don't think this represents a self-defence situation. He is using chain punches, which are used in WT, but how does it look with an attacker who comes at you with a knife or two attackers swining at you on a night out with wifey.
To run your opponent down is an effective fighting strategy. You start by stepping in between your opponent's feet.

ru_ma_1.jpg
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The majority of Wing Chun online is goofy, but it's one of the most precious martial arts in history, since it contains a long, long distillation of different fighting styles, including everything in boxing.

Most of the people who say bad things about it, don't know a thing about it. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are bad at it, love to post diatribes and videos online about it. I cannot think of another style that has had so many apologistas, except maybe Aikido and Ninjutsu (I love both of those arts).

I think Wing Chun is, of maybe all Kung Fu styles, the most misunderstood and misrepresented. I kind of repeat this mantra but it's best to learn Wing Chun along with a wider exposure to southern Chinese MA. There are other Chinese family styles that contain the entirety of Wing Chun.
That last sentence is gold. It’s about principles and how those principles are trained and practiced. As I have said many times, it is not about style, it is about the individual, because the truly skilled all have some things in common.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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How do individuals with experience in various martial arts systems, including those with full-contact training, assess the practicality and effectiveness of Wing Chun for self-defense, considering its predominantly non-full contact approach, and what insights can they share regarding its potential application in real-life situations?
There is no way to answer these kinds of questions in way that is useful. Find a good teacher and train hard, there are no guarantees.
 

drop bear

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There is no way to answer these kinds of questions in way that is useful. Find a good teacher and train hard, there are no guarantees.

And self defence is this unquantifiable weasel term because people want it to be.

This is the best explanation of self defence I have come across.

And we can break our martial arts principles in to these basic problems and then develop the tools to solve them. And then test those tools against someone who is trying to test his own tools.

Which is basic sparring or basic resisted scenarios.

Contained within those tests we will develop systems that solve problems.

Solve enough problems you get to go home.

It is the basis behind conceptual training. That you can find these basic truths you fit together to make an evidence based assessment as to whether you have the best method for something you haven't specifically encountered.
 
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Bayroum

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That last sentence is gold. It’s about principles and how those principles are trained and practiced. As I have said many times, it is not about style, it is about the individual, because the truly skilled all have some things in common.
As a martial artist I can agree with that.

I found a few schools in the area. I might check one out on tuesday. But the dude also teaches muay-thai, so I am not too sure what this school will look like...
 

Kung Fu Wang

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But the dude also teaches muay-thai, so I am not too sure what this school will look like...
If your instructor

- only trains WC, his WC is "pure".
- also cross trained MT, he may teach you more principle, strategy, tool even if his WC may not be "pure".

My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin in this video could teach "flying side kick". But he also could teach "pure" Chinese wrestling skill.



 
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Wing Woo Gar

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As a martial artist I can agree with that.

I found a few schools in the area. I might check one out on tuesday. But the dude also teaches muay-thai, so I am not too sure what this school will look like...
Give it a fair look and decide if it will give you what you want.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Just do the best you can then?
Well yes, you find the best instruction available and then train hard. Unless one can afford to move and chase the best instruction available elsewhere. The OP asked about WC in particular. I am not a WC guy, nor am I a huge fan of WC in general. I tried to give the best politically correct answer. Go see the local schools, pick one based on what you want, train hard at it. So yes, just do the best you can with what is available to you.
 
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Bayroum

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Well yes, you find the best instruction available and then train hard. Unless one can afford to move and chase the best instruction available elsewhere. The OP asked about WC in particular. I am not a WC guy, nor am I a huge fan of WC in general. I tried to give the best politically correct answer. Go see the local schools, pick one based on what you want, train hard at it. So yes, just do the best you can with what is available to you.

My final decision after putting some research into this and I mean a lot of research as well as looking up trainings and talking to WT instructors is that I won't do it. In my heart I am a semi to full contact martial artist who finds joy in stuff like Kickboxing and did ITF Taekwondo for a long time. This is the stuff I like. I might look into MT, but only once I am in shape, not before that.
 
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