I was reading the thread about the "VT Museum" and went to the webpage. No comment on that. Instead, my question is, "Why the heck does every prominent WC/WT/VT sifu who goes off on their own have to proclaim themselves a "Grandmaster". My old Chinese Sifu did that as well. In the decades since, at least half a dozen of his students have split off and done the same thing, and this is happening throughout the WC/WT/VT world in just about every "lineage", branch or association. There must be at least forty or fifty "Grandmasters" out there, maybe more. The same seems to be true in most other martial arts. I don't know, it just seems really cheesy to me. Any thoughts?
Grade inflation ...What the heck is a "GM" anyway?!?
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
I do not practice or train Wing Chun.
I can say this though in general:
When you go public and need numbers or want more numbers one needs marketing. Having kids and dogs in your ads will get you only so far. So those that think they are smart consumers will go, I want to learn from a higher ranked person, or a higher (sounding) title.
Hmmm I could train with an Instructor, or a Head Instructor, or a Master, or a Senior Master, or a Grand Master, and in some cases Great Grand Master. I want the best for my money so I will go with the highest rank or title.
I know it makes a difference how people perceive you from the outside. The issue on the inside your reputation is more important, or at least in my opinion it is.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Basically as stated by Rich Grand Master = $$$$
However, historically, the term Grand Master, in Chinese martial arts does not exist nor will you find it used on mainland today by any legitimate martial artists who teaches mostly Chinese students.
Saw an interesting webpage that was for a CMA guy teaching in Northern China. The English page he was a Grand Master but on the Chinese language page he was a sifu.... what does that tell you
However, historically, the term Grand Master, in Chinese martial arts does not exist nor will you find it used on mainland today by any legitimate martial artists who teaches mostly Chinese students.
Saw an interesting webpage that was for a CMA guy teaching in Northern China. The English page he was a Grand Master but on the Chinese language page he was a sifu.... what does that tell you
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My WC group has a FB page I put up a few months back. I sort of use it as my rant page.
Here is something I put up a couple of weeks back on this very subject:
What does it take to become a “master” of martial arts? What exactly is a master? When we think of a martial arts master, we think of someone highly skilled: the old Chinese guy with the long white beard and bushy eyebrows, able to defeat multiple opponents with subtle movements, or the little Japanese man able to catch a fly with chopsticks.
Do a Google search sometimes. Martial arts are in a sad state. Everyone is the head of their own organization. And of course, if you’re the head of the organization, you have to be the master, but not just master….now it’s GRANDMASTER., because being the master just wasn’t good enough. How long until we have so many grandmasters running around, that that term is replaced by another. How about GRAND HIGH EXALTED MYSTIC MASTER OF ALMIGHTINESS?
So what exactly is a master?
In the old days, a male school teacher was called the master, meaning he was the teacher.
In the Bible you see Jesus referred to as master (rabbi in some translations, meaning, teacher)
When the Asian fighting arts were brought here, were they using this understanding of the word?
By saying that a sifu ( or sensei) was the teacher, ie. master, rather than this title being a comment on the teacher’s skill level, was it simply a title, stating their purpose in the school, that is the school’s teacher?
It wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we lost that title all together, and while we’re at it, we could toss out the belt ranking system….but that’s a whole other can of worms.
Here is something I put up a couple of weeks back on this very subject:
What does it take to become a “master” of martial arts? What exactly is a master? When we think of a martial arts master, we think of someone highly skilled: the old Chinese guy with the long white beard and bushy eyebrows, able to defeat multiple opponents with subtle movements, or the little Japanese man able to catch a fly with chopsticks.
Do a Google search sometimes. Martial arts are in a sad state. Everyone is the head of their own organization. And of course, if you’re the head of the organization, you have to be the master, but not just master….now it’s GRANDMASTER., because being the master just wasn’t good enough. How long until we have so many grandmasters running around, that that term is replaced by another. How about GRAND HIGH EXALTED MYSTIC MASTER OF ALMIGHTINESS?
So what exactly is a master?
In the old days, a male school teacher was called the master, meaning he was the teacher.
In the Bible you see Jesus referred to as master (rabbi in some translations, meaning, teacher)
When the Asian fighting arts were brought here, were they using this understanding of the word?
By saying that a sifu ( or sensei) was the teacher, ie. master, rather than this title being a comment on the teacher’s skill level, was it simply a title, stating their purpose in the school, that is the school’s teacher?
It wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we lost that title all together, and while we’re at it, we could toss out the belt ranking system….but that’s a whole other can of worms.
mograph
Master of Arts
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To me, a grandmaster is at the (current) top rank of an established lineage, such as Chen Zhenglei and Chen Xiaowang.
As for "master", I'll call someone "Sifu" out of respect, and if it's socially appropriate. I'd only tell someone he's a "master" if I think he's mastered a serious discipline, one worth mastering over time. I met the teacher of a large Tai Chi group once -- everybody in the group addressed him as Sifu, so I did as well, since to do otherwise would have been very rude. Is he a master of Tai Chi? I have no idea.
We all know about the guys practicing in their backyard who know exactly what they're doing, but don't want to be called "master". To me, these guys have mastered what they're doing.
As for "master", I'll call someone "Sifu" out of respect, and if it's socially appropriate. I'd only tell someone he's a "master" if I think he's mastered a serious discipline, one worth mastering over time. I met the teacher of a large Tai Chi group once -- everybody in the group addressed him as Sifu, so I did as well, since to do otherwise would have been very rude. Is he a master of Tai Chi? I have no idea.
We all know about the guys practicing in their backyard who know exactly what they're doing, but don't want to be called "master". To me, these guys have mastered what they're doing.
Is it just me or does this line just read funny? Rich at one end and $$$$ at the other.
Ideally there should be only ONE grandmaster per lineage, off-shoot branches would head-up by masters.
Currently there is only one grandmaster ... and it is still in the making, and will be coming to your theater soon.
Eric_H
Black Belt
BS Artists will always be full of BS.
True sense of "grandmaster" is a gatekeeper or lineage holder. Not many of those running about.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Is it just me or does this line just read funny? Rich at one end and $$$$ at the other.
I never did like the comma
Basically as stated by Rich, Grand Master = $$$$
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Yeah, but in Chenjiagou I bet they don't let anyone in thier family or from China call them Grandmaster
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
everybody wants their amp to go up to eleven. It's one louder.
