Gracie Jiu Jitsu Vs Other Arts

[Tony Dismukes122 18]

Im going to say the same thing about MMA that I said about BJJ or that I would say about any art, if MMA was the best, most effective art everybody would be doing it.

Well, I never claimed that MMA (or anything else) was the "best" art. I was correcting the misapprehension that MMA is "a mile wide and an inch deep" or that MMA fighters "aren't excellent at anything."

 

[drop bear123 62]

Well, I never claimed that MMA (or anything else) was the "best" art. I was correcting the misapprehension that MMA is "a mile wide and an inch deep" or that MMA fighters "aren't excellent at anything."

There is also a matter of volume. If we were comparing a pro MMA fighter vs a pro boxer. We could argue specialisation.

But MMA also tend to be full time schools with multiple specialised instructors.

And there are arts that don't do that.

Arguing specialisation because you train both days in one style isn't the same argument.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Well, I never claimed that MMA (or anything else) was the "best" art. I was correcting the misapprehension that MMA is "a mile wide and an inch deep" or that MMA fighters "aren't excellent at anything."

OK, well I just find it better for me to learn a striking based art and a grappling based art separately and then after I've gained experience in both arts, to learn more on how to combine them, but that's just me. Maybe some people find it more advantageous to start with MMA, what works best for some people is different than what works for others.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

I just find it better for me to learn a striking based art and a grappling based art separately and then after I've gained experience in both arts, to learn more on how to combine them, ...

- A boxer doesn't know to ho use his favor punch to set up a throw that he has never trained.
- A Judo guy also doesn't know how to use a punch that he has never trained to set up his favor throw.

It's better to understand the connection between the striking art and the throwing art first. What's that connection? IMO, "arm wrap" is that connection. Unfortunately, you won't train "arm wrap" in boxing, or in Judo.

 

[PhotonGuy]

- A boxer doesn't know to ho use his favor punch to set up a throw that he has never trained.
- A Judo guy also doesn't know how to use a punch that he has never trained to set up his favor throw.

It's better to understand the connection between the striking art and the throwing art first. What's that connection? IMO, "arm wrap" is that connection. Unfortunately, you won't train "arm wrap" in boxing, or in Judo.

The arm wrap is sometimes used in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I believe in some of the trapping based arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

The arm wrap is sometimes used in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I believe in some of the trapping based arts.

"Arm wrap" training in fist flying situation is different from "arm wrap" training in grappling art only training.

To wrap your opponent's incoming punch is difficult. But if you throw a punch and your opponent blocks it, you then wrap his blocking arm is much easier. In other words, if you do want to integrate the striking art and the throwing art, your punching arm will never come back empty.

Does a boxer or BJJ guy have this kind of punch-grab-pull concept in mind?

 

[PhotonGuy]

"Arm wrap" training in fist flying situation is different from "arm wrap" training in grappling art only training.

To wrap your opponent's incoming punch is difficult. But if you throw a punch and your opponent blocks it, you then wrap his blocking arm is much easier. In other words, if you do want to integrate the striking art and the throwing art, your punching arm will never come back empty.

Does a boxer or BJJ guy have this kind of punch-grab-pull concept in mind?

In boxing they don't do arm wraps as you describe but in BJJ when you get more advanced you do start learning the arm wrap in conjunction with punches and strikes as shown in the video.

 

[Alchemist]

Remind me again, I keep forgetting.... which art does not sell their Gag as the best thing since sliced bread?

The unfortunate reality is that, at the end of the day, you have to market your product if you want to sell it. And that absolutely applies to martial arts, it is an industry and it is a business, and therefore if you want people to even know that you’re martial arts exists you have to market it.
The Gracies had a lot of faults, but they understood marketing and therefore got ahead of the pack.

 

[windwalker099124 154]

Some thoughts by

a noted hop gar shifu

“Are they really making anything that much different compared to other old styles? Maybe not. Kung fu, after all, is just two hands, two feet and the body.

That’s it. Different styles specialize on different techniques and usually these people don’t pick them up.
They don’t know how to use them. For example, tongbei is different than regular kung fu.
It’s the way they use the power, the way they deliver momentum and striking force. That’s what makes it outstanding. I don’t say that these new styles are bad kung fu or anything like that.

Some feel that by studying different things they can add them to a toolbox.
Often that’s not the case — especially when a certain level of specialization is required to develop real skill.

It takes time for anything to become functional, even more so when dealing with others at a high level.

MMA isn’t really an exception to this.

At a higher level, it’s not about collecting methods, but integrating them into one system. Without that level of depth and integration, it doesn’t hold up under pressure — in a sense, becoming a method unto itself.

I always say ‘Whatever you do, I don’t want. Whatever I do and you don’t know – that’s how we win.'”

Outside of rule sets, all arts have to deal with the same things.
How they do it — and what they emphasize — may differ, sometimes specializing in certain aspects to give practitioners an advantage beyond whatever natural attributes they were born with.

 

[Kung Fu Wang124 154]

Some feel that by studying different things they can add them to a toolbox.

You can easily learn a technique and put it into your toolbox. But you still need to spend time to develop your "ability".

In another thread, people says "head lock" doesn't work for a white belt. Of course, it doesn't work for any white belt. The white belt hasn't spent enough time to "hang on the pole" yet.

 

[dunc]

In boxing they don't do arm wraps as you describe but in BJJ when you get more advanced you do start learning the arm wrap in conjunction with punches and strikes as shown in the video.

Yes arm wraps are foundational stuff in BJJ, particularly no-gi
Standing and ground work

 

[PhotonGuy]

MMA fighters "aren't excellent at anything."

Whether or not somebody is excellent at anything really depends on the person not the art. Sure there's MMA fighters who are excellent at certain stuff but MMA itself, while perhaps being the most well rounded of all martial arts, is less focused than arts such as traditional Judo and Karate. But an MMA practitioner can be excellent at some stuff as it depends on the person not the art.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You can easily learn a technique and put it into your toolbox. But you still need to spend time to develop your "ability".

In another thread, people says "head lock" doesn't work for a white belt. Of course, it doesn't work for any white belt. The white belt hasn't spent enough time to "hang on the pole" yet.

It depends on the white belt. Some white belts might be good at the head lock. It also depends on what your dojo defines as a white belt and what skills they have to learn (and to what level) before they can go up a belt. In Gracie Jiu Jitsu you're typically going to be a white belt for two years, so you can learn quite a bit in that time.

 

[skribs123 143]

In another thread, people says "head lock" doesn't work for a white belt. Of course, it doesn't work for any white belt. The white belt hasn't spent enough time to "hang on the pole" yet.

That's the opposite of what I said.

I said the head lock technique (specifically the head squeeze used as a submission attempt) is only used by white belts and only works on other white belts.

• Upper belts don't use it at all because it doesn't work on upper belts.
• When it's done on an upper belt, it doesn't work. It only upsets them because it's unnecessary pain, but no extra danger.

When a white belt uses the technique on me, it doesn't fail because they're a white belt with poor understanding of the technique. It fails because it's a poor technique being done by someone who doesn't recognize how bad of an idea it is.