Good training or just stupid?

[andyjeffries]

You apparently think it is OK based on your assertion that the kicks aren't reallt full contact. Given the video I don't think that's an accurate assessment, but you're certainly free to believe it.

Just to clarify, I don't think it's a good way to train and not the way I'd have my students train. My students don't do head contact unless both are wearing heard guards.

I was just trying to see it from their point of view and potentially playing devil's advocate in saying that it seems similar to ITF where it wasn't (to my eyes) full contact but a well placed strike and the amount of padding used equivalent to other martial arts that allow "non-full-contact head kicks with some level of foot padding".

 

[Dirty Dog]

The kicker was wearing red foot boots, is this not the same as ITF where ITD Taekwon-do players wear foot boots and no head guards?

When I did ITF, we wore headgear, but no hogu.

He didn't land the kick full power,

How in the world can you make that statement from watching the video?

i

t just caught the guy well, so again given that everyone who says "if you think ITF sparring is not hard-contact, you obviously have never done it", is this any different?

Because in the ITF (at least when I did it...) the strikes shown in this video could cost you points, or the match. But, again, we wore headgear, and although contact was hard, it wasn't full force (generally) and was generally harder to the body than to the head.

And of course, this wasn't competition of any level. It was training.

 

[chrispillertkd]

FWIW, the ITF doesn't require headgear to be worn in tournaments, but many local level tournaments either allow it or mandate it for insurance reasons. Same with some national level competitions. The recent WC in Canada allowed head gear to be used, again for insurance purposes, but I know many fighters didn't bother with it. This is the only WC that I know of where headgear was allowed.

Hogu, on the other hand, have never been used. The ITF chooses to cover the attacking tools instead of the vital spots.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Manny]

Seems stupid to me.

If you're training for a sport, then train for it. WTF rules stipulate headgear, so I don't see any advantage to sparring without it.

Even professional boxers, who train for knockouts, wear headgear when they're sparring.

Getting hurt MORE in training than in competition just makes no sense to me.

Edit: Added a couple additional thoughts.

Having a Dr in the house wouldn't make any difference. Both those people have concussions, by definition.

From a self defense standpoint, I can see the arguement that you do need to, at least once in your life, go full contact without protective gear simply to learn how to absorb impacts and fight through them. I've seen TONS of beginners drop like a sack of potatoes after a light hit, simply because they have never been hit and have no idea how to deal with it. But as a routine part of your training? Idiotic.

Agree 100%. If you want to fight hard inside the dojang then you need protection. For the contact to the head I saw in the clip the TKD helmet is too little, I will opt for some kind of helmet/mask to protect better the face/head area.

I will definetively won't allow this kind of hard contact to the head amoung my students inside dojo.

I've got a nice knock out that put me on the ground with a concusion when I did my blue or red belt test, in those days we didin't use anything but a groin cup and maybe light shin pads and nothing more, the contact was heavy and I really did not see the spining hook kick coming that caught me right on the jaw.

Everytime heavy contact is used inside dojang people must use safety gear period.

Manny

 

[Balrog]

Grandmaster's Rules of Sparring:

1. Don't block with your face.
2. Your *** has padding on it already, your head doesn't. Get your hands up and guard your head.
3. When in doubt, refer to rules 1 and 2.

 

[Buka]

Grandmaster's Rules of Sparring:

1. Don't block with your face.
2. Your *** has padding on it already, your head doesn't. Get your hands up and guard your head.
3. When in doubt, refer to rules 1 and 2.

Great stuff, that.

 

[vikings827]

Most of you have seen this already but I thought I would post anyway to get everyone's take on this. Is this to brutal for training or what is needed to produce the best fighters? Seems a bit extreme to me and a good way to really get hurt. There seems to be no doctors in house and being concussed could lead to some serious brain injuries. Good training or just stupid?

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I know this is stupid. Where is the head gear? If you want more future vegetables, keep this kind of crap up.

 

[andyjeffries]

He didn't land the kick full power

How in the world can you make that statement from watching the video?

I can make that statement from experience looking at physical changes when people put full (i.e. 100%) power in to a kick. For a start, the kick retracted the same way back out which means he didn't land it with 100% power (compare to how people go through the target when performing power breaks). Secondly, his arms remained fairly static. I know elite athletes have better arm control than normal players, but when you are putting everything in to a shot then they generally react (either counter twisting or with-the-motion). The third reason is just my gut, it looks like a normal head shot, snappy but not sent with everything behind it.

Have you never seen or heard the commentary from an MMA fight or boxing fight (as they are on TV more than Taekwondo) where one guy is "putting everything in to each strike" or "he's throwing everything with bad intentions". When I used the word "angry" earlier I didn't mean literally "insulted my mother angry", just not throwing the shot for the point but with the intention of actually causing damage.

I don't believe he (again just referring to the first KO) intended to knock out his training partner, just to score the point.

Maybe the source of confusion is where we define full power. When I'm saying full power I mean "everything he can put in to it", rather than 50%+. I don't believe he tried to land a light/non-contact shot, but I don't believe he was trying to put everything in to it.

I guess it's all just my opinion and unless anyone knows the fighter to ask if he intended to kick his training partner's head off, then we'll never know.

 

[Buka]

I often wonder how the concept of fighting with hands down came about, and subsequently, how it became popular? Especially in a milieu that encourages and teaches head striking. It seems to be opposed to the normal human instinct of self preservation. Maybe not at first, but certainly after taking a few dozen smacks to the chops.

Some of us go to bed at night dreaming of sparring partners who keep their hands down. I got one for Christmas once. But it broke after a few days.

 

[Gorilla]

This is not a good example of WTF TKD. Running staight in on a guy sitting on a head kick will get you knocked out. No feinting nothing? Nobody with any sense think this is a good Idea.

 

[WaterGal]

Stupid stupid stupid. Head shots with no head gear and not even blocking the head? It's like they were trying to get concussions.