goju karate

[drummingman]

does anyone study this style of karate? what do you think of it if you do?
here is a web site about it if you guys wanna check it out. http://www.americangoju.com
im going to check out a class tomorrow night.
im nursing an injury right now so thats why im doing all this research trying to see what style i want to take while im hurt.i hope to start up lessons in a style or system when im better.

 

[arnisador]

I studied it years ago and liked it a lot. But then, I had a great instructor (Vinson Grace of Syracuse, NY).

 

[exile]

It has a rep for being a very complete, deadly-serious fighting style with a lot of the old Okinawan tuite moves likely to be in the curriculum, and a lot of the Chinese combat systems that went into Okinawan karate still right on the surface (along with the more linear striking aspects that were amplified in the Japanese developments of Okinawa-te). A good mix, in short. My impression is, it's very well respected as a combat style. In The Way of Kata, Kane & Wilder talk about some of the `classic' bunkai interpretations associated with Goju-ryu kata and the whole impression which emerges is quite positive one... if you have a chance to study it, it could be just what you're looking for.

 

[drummingman]

it sounds really cool being that it mixes both hard and soft into the same style.
the teacher also teaches jujitsu and i asked him about adding that in for ground fighting.
check out his site and tell me what you think. http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com
if you see any red flags as to why i should not study there please let me know.
thanks so much.

 

[KOROHO]

There is ground fighting in Goju Ryu, so it should not be necessary to add Jujutsu for that reason.
I trained in Goju Ryu as well as in Aikido, at different places. One of the teachers at the Aikido school also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo. He once said that every technique that is in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu, atleast some variation of it. I tend to believe that. I also know people who have done Goju Ryu demonstrations and were asked afterwards what style of Jujutsu that was.
Taught in it's pure form, it is a very comlete and well rounded fighting style, dealing with different ranges, including the ground.
I, like the Goju Ryu and other teachers I have trained with, study different arts for various reasons. They all have something different to offer. Even though Goju RYu will contain everything you will learn at a good Jujutsu school, the difference is mainly in the approach to teaching.
If you like grappling, you will like Goju Ryu. Unless the school either does not spend much time on the grappling, or the teacher never learned it - in which case they will tell you they had to add Jujutsu to make up for what it is lacking.
If you like this school, go to it. But ask a lot of questions - especially about lineage and where the instructor got his training and credentials. You want to be assured you are being taught properly and completely.
If you can not find a Goju Ryu school affiliated with one of the major Goju organizations, you should be able to find curriculum information and compare kata and bunkai, etc. and make sure you are atleast being taught the same things.

 

[drummingman]

hi koroho.did you check out the site? the dojo is affiliated with urban goju fighting network.here is the website http://www.americangoju.com
tell me what you think.

 

[Robert Lee]

There is ground fighting in Goju Ryu, so it should not be necessary to add Jujutsu for that reason.
I trained in Goju Ryu as well as in Aikido, at different places. One of the teachers at the Aikido school also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo. He once said that every technique that is in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu, atleast some variation of it. I tend to believe that. I also know people who have done Goju Ryu demonstrations and were asked afterwards what style of Jujutsu that was.
Taught in it's pure form, it is a very comlete and well rounded fighting style, dealing with different ranges, including the ground.
I, like the Goju Ryu and other teachers I have trained with, study different arts for various reasons. They all have something different to offer. Even though Goju RYu will contain everything you will learn at a good Jujutsu school, the difference is mainly in the approach to teaching.
If you like grappling, you will like Goju Ryu. Unless the school either does not spend much time on the grappling, or the teacher never learned it - in which case they will tell you they had to add Jujutsu to make up for what it is lacking.
If you like this school, go to it. But ask a lot of questions - especially about lineage and where the instructor got his training and credentials. You want to be assured you are being taught properly and completely.
If you can not find a Goju Ryu school affiliated with one of the major Goju organizations, you should be able to find curriculum information and compare kata and bunkai, etc. and make sure you are atleast being taught the same things.

I hate to say it But Aikido And goju ryu are very different Go ju really does not cover the ground game that much Few ground tools at all. Joint locks, destructions,
Take down And take strikes and some on ground defnce positions are in the training. But mostly. Waist high or lower kicks Hand strike closed and open hand. Goju ryu You have a little difference between japanes and Okinawan styles. Go ju ryu is one of the older base line Karate styles. From Influenced from a blend of naha te. and shorini temple boxing. Given the name By Miyagi Of Goju Ryu. It is a good art. considered a TMA, You have Kata Bunki and kisokumite. Along with Jiyu kumite training of coarse the prearranged and non arrnged drill, also. Urban Had been active for many years I believe he was more japanese based Goju rather then Okinawan based. A slight difference.

 

[Haze]

The school looks good! Give it a try.

I've been studying Goju on and off for 20 yrs. Good system but it does not cover much grappling/ground game. The jujitsu will be a great add on to it.

Goju does have some locks and breaks but it is mainly a stand up striking art.

Urban/USA Goju comes from the Yamaguchi version of Japanese Goju

 

[KOROHO]

I did look at the site.
I think you can get very good overall training there. But then again, that is only judging by a web site.
American Goju is different than the Japanese and Okinawan. But I never trained in it.

Goju, as you probably know translates to mean "hard and Soft". But JU is better translated to mean YIELDING as opposed to soft. It is this aspect of Goku Ryu that makes it very similar to other grappling and throwing arts such as Jujutsu and even Aikido.

Every technique you will find in Aikido you will find in Goju Ryu. Of course there are differences, just as there are differences between Aikido and Jujutsu. But they are more similar than different.

As for the gound fighting in Goju Ryu: I never saw a syllabus or list of techniques identified as "ground fighting". But once you know how to do a joint lock, it should not matter to you whether the opponent is standing or on the ground, it pretty much works the same. You have to learn to apply the principles that you learn to all situations. That includes "uke", which so many incorrectly translate to mean "block". This is better translated as "reception". When you receive an attack, it should not matter whether you are standing up, on your knees or lying on your back - the same basic principles apply. I only had 2 Goju Ryu teachers. They both came from different lineage, neither had Jujutsu training but both taught ground applications of Goju Ryu kata.

Also, it was an Aikido teacher of mine who also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo who used to bring his Goju Ryu students to the Aikido class so they can see the similarities.

Okinawan Karate, especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu, are very much grappling arts. Sadly, a lot of the bunkai was lost as Karate became more sport oriented. We seem to be seeing a revivial of the teaching of bunkai.

I don't see anything wrong with mixing karate and jujutsu. That's how we got Shindo Jinen Ryu and Wado Ryu and others. But these styles came about out of the founders own personal experience, preferences and creativity. Not due to the karate they learned being inferior or incomplete.

 

[KOROHO]

Good system but it does not cover much grappling/ground game. The jujitsu will be a great add on to it.

Goju does have some locks and breaks but it is mainly a stand up striking art.

Urban/USA Goju comes from the Yamaguchi version of Japanese Goju

You can get a glimpse of the grappling aspect in Morio Higaonna's video series from Dragon-Tsunami. When I learned the bunkai to the kata, we did about an even mix of grappling and striking.

It used to be that the grappling was taught only to advanced students. But the advent of BJJ brought on the need to bring it out earlier in order to gain interest and even retain students who might be getting more interested in the grappling arts.

It's also likely that Mr. Urban either was never taught grappling or removed it for some reason and that is one of the differences between American and Okinawan Goju.

Although I am working on introducing the art of Koroho to the U.S., I now primarily teach 3 arts: Yoshinkan Aikido, Ba Men Taichi Chuan and Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo. Shito Ryu has much in common with Goju Ryu and most of the bunkai that I teach was learned in Goju Ryu. Most of my students cross train in atleast 2 arts. We spend a lot of time focused on the similarites. Even when I teach applications to the Taichi forms, I borrow things from Aikido and Karate. They are all very much interchangeable. Someday I'll have to test students by demonstrating some "one steps" and have them guess whether it was an Aikido, Taichi or Karate technique. The main difference will be in the feel as opposed to the look of the technique, so it will not really be too fair of a test unless they are uke (the receiver of the technique not the blocker of the technique)

 

[drummingman]

wow,thanks for the info koroho! where do you teach?

 

[KOROHO]

I teach in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Most of my classes are at the Fort Wayne Parks and Recreation. But I do local seminars, private classes and some extra classes at a friends dojo. www.jimmccoy.com/shindokan.cfm

I came back today not only to see if there were things to respond to but to share something that I just stumbled on.

I was reading a web site about Taichi and came upon this quote in one of the paragraphs:

"[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica] If the opponent is hard, I am soft; this is called "receiving".
If I go with the opponent and cause him to be defective, this is called "adhering".

This is Taichi, but it is also Goju Ryu. In earlier posts I mentioned how "uke" means "receiving" as opposed to "blocking". This is the JU of Goju Ryu.
Also in Goju Ryu you will learn about "MUCHIMI" or "heavy and sticky" - that is the "adhering" that this Taichi author is writing about. Goju Ryu is a wonderful Chinese art that was heavily influenced by the Okinawan striking and grappling arts.

This quote also speaks volumes about Yoshinkan Aikido.

Here's the rest of the Taichi article in case there's an interest:
http://www.karott.com/taichi/resources/classics.asp
scroll down to [/FONT]T'ai Chi Cbuan Ching Attributed to Immortal Wang Chung-yueh
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]

 

[KOROHO]

For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work. I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it. But he's done some terrific work.

A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers. But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.

 

[Robert Lee]

For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work. I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it. But he's done some terrific work.

A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers. But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.

I trained okinawi8n Go Ju ryu For many years I would like to know Where you get much ground work in with its training. Sure in kata there are some joint strikes destructions take downs But mostly stand in Go Ju.

 

[exile]

For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work. I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it. But he's done some terrific work.

A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers. But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.

McCarthy is part of this great wave of kata reassessment that has been sweeping through UK karate since around the turn of the century. I think of him as part of the same gang as Iain Abernethy and Rick Clark. These guys are making some terrific discoveries about karate and related arts.

Javier Martinez is another one in that movement, whose special area of investigation is Okinawan karate bunkai (I think JM's lineage is Isshinryu, not sure though). Very good book (though in need of some editing!) on Tuite as a covert component of Okinawan bunkai.

 

[KOROHO]

You get "the ground work in" just by doing it.

If your asking which of the students did Miyagi specifically take and say "this is for on the ground" I don't know. I know that we have always taken things out of the Goju Ryu kata and applied them as joint locks and throws - many of these techniques are mistaken as being blocks. There is a lot more than just "some joint strikes and destructions" in Goju Ryu.

Like I said, everything you will find in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu - not necessarily the Aiki concepts of beldning, etc - thise where the seperation comes. But you will find shiho nage, kote gaeshi, ikkajon, nikkajo, sankajo - all the basics and then some.

When you understand the applications of the techniques standing, then you take them to the ground. If you know how to do sanshin dachi, then you know how to do jujigatame. I personally do not know any long term Goju Ryu practiitoners who did not learn grappling and ground fighting.

What was news to me when I first started participating in these boards was there were people that did not know there was grappling and groundfighting in Goju Ryu.

I ran across one Goju teacher who did a demonstration and was surprised when someone came over and asked him who his Aikido teacher was. I have taght classes in bunkai to karate students who thought it was a jujutsu seminar.

Like I said, I am just shocked to see that people think there is either very little or none at all of the grappling and groundfighting in Goju. I learned it as a grappling/throwing art. I do still teach Karate although not much anymore, I may even disocntinue it. But the only real difference between Goju Ryu and the Jujutsu/Aikido that I teach is that the karate students learn more striking techniques. I usually have them come to Aikido class to learn to do the breakfalling and also so they understand the differences between the 2 arts.

 

[KOROHO]

McCarthy is part of this great wave of kata reassessment that has been sweeping through UK karate since around the turn of the century. I think of him as part of the same gang as Iain Abernethy and Rick Clark. These guys are making some terrific discoveries about karate and related arts.

Javier Martinez is another one in that movement, whose special area of investigation is Okinawan karate bunkai (I think JM's lineage is Isshinryu, not sure though). Very good book (though in need of some editing!) on Tuite as a covert component of Okinawan bunkai.

My own Karate lineage goes back to Shogo Kuniba of Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo. He worked very hard to restore the teaching of the old bunkai starting atleast in the 1960's. It was not very popular then because people were clamoring for competition and the push was on to promote point fighting and kata was being looked at as a dance.

My original Goju Ryu teacher (Bill Knoblock of the NKJU) I know did a lot of independent research as well which pretty much paralleled the things that Kuniba was doing. I do know that he learned Goju Ryu in the Phillipines some time probably in the late 60's. I just don't know who from.
I used to think he came up with these applications on his own, but then about 10 years later I met some students of Morio Higaonna who were teaching the same things as Knoblock - heavy grappling, joint locks, throws and ground work.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com
if you see any red flags as to why i should not study there please let me know.
thanks so much.

I see one big red flag on the home page. The person has an award from the ICMAUA. Go to their website and pick your rank. For $40, they will send you your certificate stating that you are that rank. Maybe this guy is legit, but why would he get messed up with organization like that. Make sure he has rank from someone other than this organization. If he does, then that is okay. If not, go somewhere else.

Also he has a black panther logo at the bottom of the home page. Is that his style animal, or does he support the old Black Panther political party of the 1970's? About 30 years ago, our style used the black panther, but had to drop it due to the civil unrest caused when the Black Panthers started being very active in the late 60's and early 70's. It is probably just his animal, but we had to change our style animal, so I was wondering if it was a similar situation.

AoG

 

[exile]

My own Karate lineage goes back to Shogo Kuniba of Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo. He worked very hard to restore the teaching of the old bunkai starting atleast in the 1960's. It was not very popular then because people were clamoring for competition and the push was on to promote point fighting and kata was being looked at as a dance.

Yes, sport karate has gone in a parallel direction to WTF Taekwondo. When I read Iain Abernethy's book on combat-effective bunkai, there wasn't a single sentence in which the phrase `sport karate' appeared where you couldn't have substituted `Olympic-style TKD' with exactly the same degree of truth. The difference is that sport karate is still not the main profile of karate, where with TKD... :uhohh:

My original Goju Ryu teacher (Bill Knoblock of the NKJU) I know did a lot of independent research as well which pretty much paralleled the things that Kuniba was doing. I do know that he learned Goju Ryu in the Phillipines some time probably in the late 60's. I just don't know who from.
I used to think he came up with these applications on his own, but then about 10 years later I met some students of Morio Higaonna who were teaching the same things as Knoblock - heavy grappling, joint locks, throws and ground work.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's not surprising, in a way---Higaonna was one of the great masters of Okinawa-te, and you can't help getting the sense that the Okinawan masters kept a connection to the `deep' bunkai for their art much more than any of the other developments of karate managed to.

The important thing, though, is that Knoblock may well have been discovering these apps on his own. If something is real, it's gonna be discovered by more than one person.

 

[KOROHO]

I see one big red flag on the home page. The person has an award from the ICMAUA. Go to their website and pick your rank. For $40, they will send you your certificate stating that you are that rank.

Good catch AoG. I did not follow the links.
I know nothing about the people that run ICMAUA but any organization that doesnot verify credentials of members and just sends out certificates is bound to have troubles.

This school appears to have lineage to Peter Urban. I know he died a few years ago so maybe they split off from the group after that. It would not be uncommon. But there should be certificates, if not from Urban himself then from some senior affiliated with him.