Going to class once a week

[Cyriacus]

Can I? Yes. Will I? No; note, please, that I included the qualifier "that I have known." I rather doubt you'd know them. Not every skilled martial artist is famous. Though I do recall that Bruce Lee was reported to have won several cha-cha contests.

You seem locked on "you must do martial arts to improve martial arts." And this is true; you can't learn to punch or kick or throw or be thrown or what have you about martial arts without doing martial arts. But lots of things that are not explicitly martial arts can improve your martial arts. Obvious ones: strength training and cardio training. You do, I trust, agree that strength training and conditioning can improve your martial arts? So can other things. Ballroom dancing (or other forms of dance) has been discussed. It's not the only way to learn those things -- but, y'know, I can think of worse ways to learn than holding a pretty girl!

You also mentioned yoga, and I definitely want to address how yoga can help martial arts. Some types of yoga can help undo the damage and harm done to the body in training. Other types will improve your control and awareness of your body, and it's pretty clear that better flexibility -- especially when coupled with strength as found in many forms of yoga -- will have martial benefits. In fact, from what I've read, one art (kalaripyattu) doesn't even start martial training until the student has done a certain amount of yoga.

If anything, ill convey My View.

Where I Trained, we had Three Gymnasts, and one Dancer, over a period of a few months. Two of the Gymnasts dropped out after three classes, the other one couldnt get the stances right, and the Dancer was laughably weak, despite flexibility and footwork.

You cannot so much Benefit Martial Arts from these things.
Some Martial ARTISTS are Benefited, if they are Privy to such things.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Can I? Yes. Will I? No; note, please, that I included the qualifier "that I have known." I rather doubt you'd know them. Not every skilled martial artist is famous. Though I do recall that Bruce Lee was reported to have won several cha-cha contests.

You seem locked on "you must do martial arts to improve martial arts." And this is true; you can't learn to punch or kick or throw or be thrown or what have you about martial arts without doing martial arts. But lots of things that are not explicitly martial arts can improve your martial arts. Obvious ones: strength training and cardio training. You do, I trust, agree that strength training and conditioning can improve your martial arts? So can other things. Ballroom dancing (or other forms of dance) has been discussed. It's not the only way to learn those things -- but, y'know, I can think of worse ways to learn than holding a pretty girl!

You also mentioned yoga, and I definitely want to address how yoga can help martial arts. Some types of yoga can help undo the damage and harm done to the body in training. Other types will improve your control and awareness of your body, and it's pretty clear that better flexibility -- especially when coupled with strength as found in many forms of yoga -- will have martial benefits. In fact, from what I've read, one art (kalaripyattu) doesn't even start martial training until the student has done a certain amount of yoga.

We are not as far apart on this, as you make it seem. Dance is something that helps with cardio, flexability, coordination, balance, strength, conditioning - and the opportunity to hold pretty girls - YES! - You may have known some skilled martial artists that also studied dance - Well, I've known many dancers, who can't fight, even if their life depended on it. If you want to be a dancer - study ballet or pole dancing. If you want to be a fighter - study martial arts. Just Saying

 

[Monroe]

We are not as far apart on this, as you make it seem. Dance is something that helps with cardio, flexability, coordination, balance, strength, conditioning - and the opportunity to hold pretty girls - YES! - You may have known some skilled martial artists that also studied dance - Well, I've known many dancers, who can't fight, even if their life depended on it. If you want to be a dancer - study ballet or pole dancing. If you want to be a fighter - study martial arts. Just Saying

No one was suggesting that dance replaces MA instruction.

 

[seasoned]

No one was suggesting that dance replaces MA instruction.

Thank you, enhances yes, replaces no, as you have stated above.

If you have meat, then adding some potatoes and veggies won't hurt. But an all vegetable diet as JudoChampion has mentioned below, maybe not so good.

"Well, I've known many dancers, who can't fight, even if their life depended on it. If you want to be a dancer - study ballet or pole dancing. If you want to be a fighter - study martial arts. Just Saying"

 

[Champ-Pain]

Thank you, enhances yes, replaces no, as you have stated above.

If you have meat, then adding some potatoes and veggies won't hurt. But an all vegetable diet as JudoChampion has mentioned below, maybe not so good.

"Well, I've known many dancers, who can't fight, even if their life depended on it. If you want to be a dancer - study ballet or pole dancing. If you want to be a fighter - study martial arts. Just Saying"

So, your theory is that dance lessons enhances your martial arts skills... By the same token - Do you believe that martial arts lessons enhances your dancing skills, as well? If yes, are you referring to TKD and/or cardio kickboxing? - neither of which is a real martial art. I'm certain that dance won't help improve my Judo, BJJ or Grappling skills, although it may help a boxer with his footwork, if he decides to run around the ring - instead of fighting. Only true martial arts can help me become a better martial artist. Just my opinion, though.

 

[Cyriacus]

So, your theory is that dance lessons enhances your martial arts skills... By the same token - Do you believe that martial arts lessons enhances your dancing skills, as well? If yes, are you referring to TKD and/or cardio kickboxing? - neither of which is a real martial art. I'm certain that dance won't help improve my Judo, BJJ or Grappling skills, although it may help a boxer with his footwork, if he decides to run around the ring - instead of fighting. Only true martial arts can help me become a better martial artist. Just my opinion, though.

I Personally Dont Care; Albeit:

:s27:


/Vision Of The Possible Future.

 

[Monroe]

So, your theory is that dance lessons enhances your martial arts skills... By the same token - Do you believe that martial arts lessons enhances your dancing skills, as well? If yes, are you referring to TKD and/or cardio kickboxing? - neither of which is a real martial art. I'm certain that dance won't help improve my Judo, BJJ or Grappling skills, although it may help a boxer with his footwork, if he decides to run around the ring - instead of fighting. Only true martial arts can help me become a better martial artist. Just my opinion, though.

Newbie here, but I thought TKD was short for Tae Kwon Do. Why isn't that a real Martial Art? I can understand cardio kickboxing as I understand its focus is on aerobics. But TKD sounds rather arbitrary. And why wouldn't ballroom dancing help/enhance someone studying MA? Personally, I'll pass on the dancing, but I don't see why it wouldn't help.

 

[NSRTKD]

Gonna weigh in ... ;-)

I danced for twelve years, ballet and jazz. My brother did TKD and my mother thought I was too fragile for the sport. I was a great dancer, but I also suffered from disordered eating which I am certainly not blaming on dance, just emphasizing that dance didn't do much to take the focus off body image and thinness for me.

Fast forward: I have kids, two of whom are girls, and I see the media saturation of skinny girls being represented as role models from the perspectives that my girls find attractive (Disney channel, billboards, magazines in waiting rooms, even most TV chefs that I watch are thin, etc) and thought to myself, do I even want my girls to dance, in front of a million mirrors in skin-tight clothing that is (imho) far too revealing for school-aged children to be wearing?

The answer (a personal one, and not meant to insult anyone else's choices for their children) was no.

So we took up martial arts as a family, though my husband had already been a black belt for over a decade. And what I found in myself was this:

-Dance gave me a base of lean muscle structure and flexibility. Not trying to boast, but just being honest, I'm the most flexible in the school and it is quite simple for me to kick the heads of far taller students than myself.
-Dance gave me coordination of movement in a choreographed setting, thus forms are quite simple for me to master because I am already used to moving my body in a set pattern with precise timing.
-Dance gave me good posture and limb extension
-Dance gave me a very helpful ability to mimic the body positioning of others with very little verbal explanation.

I also found this:

-Dance gave me turned out feet, and trying to stand in a proper middle stance is HELL.
-Dance gave me flowy grace, which makes me appear weak and ballerinaish, something I've been working to "train out"... the fist itself is unnatural to a ballerina.
-Dance gave me the ability to look correct without any power behind what I'm doing, which again makes me seem quite weak.
-It was extremely hard, at the beginning of training, to acquire a healthy balance of weight and training, because I immediately slimmed down when I started training, and I got weaker. It wasn't until I forced myself to put on 15lbs that I actually started to be effective as a martial artist. I'm not saying "bigger is better" - I'm saying that when you're a ballerina, any bulk is considered inconvenient, and I had to learn to appreciate muscles for strength and power, and dismiss the notion that smaller/slimmer is "better." This is the first time in my life that I have had a weight gain and felt good about it. The extra weight has given me a better base to work off of, and I think I have found my "natural healthy" weight rather than the natural weight I have tried to force my body to settle at. I know that doesn't make much sense, and I apologize... this is still an ongoing journey for me.

It has been (and is still) a journey of reconstructing my thought patterns, my automatic movements, and my attitude towards my body. I've had to do a lot of work correcting my arms and legs so that punches don't look like bird's wings floating and kicks don't look like arabesques. But my dance experience benefited me in many ways as well, and I draw upon many of my past skills in TKD every day.

It is my personal opinion that if you have a background in ANY intense physical training, be it military, dance, gymnastics, team sports, swimming... you will find great benefits and great deficits when starting a martial art, because martial arts is a movement unlike any other but also so like every other.

 

[NSRTKD]

Newbie here, but I thought TKD was short for Tae Kwon Do. Why isn't that a real Martial Art? I can understand cardio kickboxing as I understand its focus is on aerobics. But TKD sounds rather arbitrary. And why wouldn't ballroom dancing help/enhance someone studying MA? Personally, I'll pass on the dancing, but I don't see why it wouldn't help.

It IS a real martial art. Some of the more competitive style training has gotten a bad reputation.

 

[Champ-Pain]

It IS a real martial art. Some of the more competitive style training has gotten a bad reputation.

I don't mean to offend anyone - but - I just can't respect a style (TKD) which gives out black belts to kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old - kids who constantly trip over themselves - and show absolutely NO fighting skills whatsoever. Bad reputation? IMHO - well deserved. In my area they call it "Take Ones Dough" and those who practice it are called "Tae Kwon Dorks".

 

[Monroe]

I don't mean to offend anyone - but - I just can't respect a style (TKD) which gives out black belts to kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old - kids who constantly trip over themselves - and show absolutely NO fighting skills whatsoever. Bad reputation? IMHO - well deserved. In my area they call it "Take Ones Dough" and those who practice it are called "Tae Kwon Dorks".

You can't say that you don't mean to offend anyone and in the same sentence cop to having no respect for their MA. Then you go on to mock them. You need a better cover.

 

[NSRTKD]

I don't mean to offend anyone - but - I just can't respect a style (TKD) which gives out black belts to kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old - kids who constantly trip over themselves - and show absolutely NO fighting skills whatsoever. Bad reputation? IMHO - well deserved. In my area they call it "Take Ones Dough" and those who practice it are called "Tae Kwon Dorks".

You're not offending me... you're just blatantly advertising your lack of worldliness about martial arts. "Your Area" may not have the highest quality TKD practitioners, by whatever nickname you want to give them, but to pass such a blanket judgement about a specific martial art based on the small glimpse you see of certain styles of TKD is foolish and narrow minded. Clearly you have spent too much time looking at cookie-cutter TKD schools and have done absolutely no research into the smaller, more traditional schools that are clawing to survive in the competitively-driven market. Just because SOME schools hand out what you feel are undeserved black belts doesn't give you the right to declare TKD "not a martial art."

 

[oaktree]

Hi Judo Champion
Chuck Liddell was on Dancing with the stars. Van damme studied Ballet, Chuck Norris knows how to dance too.

The style TKD does not give out black belts to children who constantly trip over themselves it is the teacher who does.
There are plenty of schools that are not TKD that do this as well but it does not mean it is the style.

There are some TKD schools around your area that are good TKD in fact, there is a TKD school that also teaches Judo as well.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Hi Judo Champion
Chuck Liddell was on Dancing with the stars. Van damme studied Ballet, Chuck Norris knows how to dance too.

There are plenty of schools that are not TKD that do this as well but it does not mean it is the style.

There are some TKD schools around your area that are good TKD in fact, there is a TKD school that also teaches Judo as well.

1) Neither of the Chucks studied any kind of dance - Yes, they dance, but so does PeeWee Herman. Van Damme is an actor, not a real martial artist... at least, not a very good one.

2) Not Judo or BJJ - NO blackbelts under 16 y/o.

3) I won't name the school you are referring to - but - neither their TKD or Judo program is recognized as good, competitive or high level. In fact, their Judo program is almost non-exsisting.

Old school / Traditional TKD is effective and a real martial arts style - but the TKD I'm talking about, with blackbelt kids of 10 y/o and under - is most certainly NOT. What other M/A style awards undeserving students belt promotions every 2 to 3 months, just so they can charge the parents a hefty fee for each belt?

 

[oaktree]

1. Liddell studied dancing when he was a on Dancing with the stars. Van Damme fought in Kickboxing and his record isn't that bad. Point was there are people who study dancing I listed 3 I am sure if I googled more I am sure I can find other Martial artist who also dance and practice Martial arts.

2. Ok no Black belts. But really no reason to be hung up about Black belts, doesn't effect my training if someone paid for one or not I know I won't loose sleep over it.

3. I mention the school because they teach Judo so they say. But if you are looking for a traditional TKD school they are around the area if you are looking hard enough.

4. You are speaking about a particular organization or school and not the art itself. I am glad that came out clearer.

 

[Champ-Pain]

1) What ever the number of martial artists that studied dance - it's the exception to the rule... maybe 1 in several thousand.

2) No hang up or loss of sleep, on my part.

3) They may indeed teach Judo - the problem is that they have NO students to teach it to.

4) I'm glad you can understand my point - clearly.

 

[Flea]

I'm certain that dance won't help improve my Judo, BJJ or Grappling skills,

What about the Horizontal Mambo?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself. :uhyeah: )

 

[MJS]

Can you be a good martial artist if you go to class once a week?

Sometimes with busy schedules people only have time to train once a week. Or sometimes the best
school is in the next town and they can only get their once a week.

I think it depends on the student and the class. If the student makes an effort to practice on their own and if the class
well taught so the student gets a lot out of it.

Can you? Sure, but its going to require alot more practice and dedication, than someone who goes 2 or more times, in addition to training on their own. Someone who attends 2 or more classes a week, will, IMO, have better success over someone who goes once.

Once is better than nothing, though given todays prices at some schools, its almost a waste of money going once.

 

[Cyriacus]

Funsies Time.

I don't mean to offend anyone - but - I just can't respect a style (TKD) which gives out black belts to kids who are 8, 9, 10 years old - kids who constantly trip over themselves - and show absolutely NO fighting skills whatsoever. Bad reputation? IMHO - well deserved. In my area they call it "Take Ones Dough" and those who practice it are called "Tae Kwon Dorks".

Karate-Kant, and Tae Kwon Dough, right alongside Muay Tights and Judont all tend to make for Terrible Examples of Arts.

1) Neither of the Chucks studied any kind of dance - Yes, they dance, but so does PeeWee Herman. Van Damme is an actor, not a real martial artist... at least, not a very good one.

2) Not Judo or BJJ - NO blackbelts under 16 y/o.

3) I won't name the school you are referring to - but - neither their TKD or Judo program is recognized as good, competitive or high level. In fact, their Judo program is almost non-exsisting.

Old school / Traditional TKD is effective and a real martial arts style - but the TKD I'm talking about, with blackbelt kids of 10 y/o and under - is most certainly NOT. What other M/A style awards undeserving students belt promotions every 2 to 3 months, just so they can charge the parents a hefty fee for each belt?

1; -
2; Not YOUR Judo or BJJ Organisation. This does not mean ALL Judo or BJJ Organisations are like this. For the same Reason the TKD Dojangs in your Area do not Generalize the Entire Art.
For Example; Competitive Judo = Pure Sport. That doesnt mean no other Archetype of the same thing Exists. Cardio Kickboxing Exists, but that doesnt mean Regular Kickboxing Doesnt.
3: -

And if you dont mind the Old-School or Traditional, or otherwise Tae Kwon-Do Forms, then perhaps consider Elaborating, rather than Generalising. Because Places still Teach it that way, and theyre not Rare.. Youre doing quite alot of Generalising.
Ive even seen some Modern KKW Standard Schools that do a Decent Job. Though id never Train in them.

1) What ever the number of martial artists that studied dance - it's the exception to the rule... maybe 1 in several thousand.

2) No hang up or loss of sleep, on my part.

3) They may indeed teach Judo - the problem is that they have NO students to teach it to.

4) I'm glad you can understand my point - clearly.

1: At least that was back on Topic
2: -
3: *Not My Discussion*
4: Perhaps thats what you were saying, but as always, You (As in, not YOU always do it. As in, as always happens on here) Communicated it Terribly; In a Way that was Extremely Privy to being taken as it was Written, because only You knew what You meant. Assuming it isnt that you did mean it, only didnt think too hard on it at the Time. Either way.




Just My Contribution, to this Weird Conversation.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Funsies Time.



Karate-Kant, and Tae Kwon Dough, right alongside Muay Tights and Judont all tend to make for Terrible Examples of Arts.



1; -
2; Not YOUR Judo or BJJ Organisation. This does not mean ALL Judo or BJJ Organisations are like this. For the same Reason the TKD Dojangs in your Area do not Generalize the Entire Art.
For Example; Competitive Judo = Pure Sport. That doesnt mean no other Archetype of the same thing Exists. Cardio Kickboxing Exists, but that doesnt mean Regular Kickboxing Doesnt.
3: -

And if you dont mind the Old-School or Traditional, or otherwise Tae Kwon-Do Forms, then perhaps consider Elaborating, rather than Generalising. Because Places still Teach it that way, and theyre not Rare.. Youre doing quite alot of Generalising.
Ive even seen some Modern KKW Standard Schools that do a Decent Job. Though id never Train in them.



1: At least that was back on Topic
2: -
3: *Not My Discussion*
4: Perhaps thats what you were saying, but as always, You (As in, not YOU always do it. As in, as always happens on here) Communicated it Terribly; In a Way that was Extremely Privy to being taken as it was Written, because only You knew what You meant. Assuming it isnt that you did mean it, only didnt think too hard on it at the Time. Either way.




Just My Contribution, to this Weird Conversation.

I'm sincerely sorry for my lack of judgement, when I posted that, making it seem like it's all one in the same. I tried correcting it, by saying what I meant on a later post - when I said that "Old school / Hard core - Traditional TKD" is effective and in deed, a real martial art... unlike the TKD I was referring to. Check out ATA, Total M/A and others in my area, you'll see what I mean.

BTW: You forgot KungFool on your insult list of terrible examples of arts. LOL