Global warming

[Ramirez]

okay deniers, explain this...with science please, not conspiracy theories

". According to NOAA, June was the 304th consecutive month with a combined global land and surface temperature above the 20th-century average"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jul/16/june-2010-warmest-recorded

 

[Big Don]

304th? So, we aren't counting the last 15 years of the twentieth century as belonging to the twentieth century?

 

[elder999]

304th? So, we aren't counting the last 15 years of the twentieth century as belonging to the twentieth century?

Think ya need to read that again, because, yes, we are counting the last 15 years of the twentieth century as belonging to the twentieth century, and there's nothing in what he posted that implies otherwise.

Sheesh.

I mean, you do know what an average is, dontcha? :lfao:

 

[RandomPhantom700]

My forecast for this thread: 100% chance of regurgitated ideology and a tension level reaching the upper thousands. Three day forecast includes a moderate chop of ad hominem attacks and a slight chance for moderator intervention.

Stay tuned.

 

[elder999]

My forecast for this thread: 100% chance of regurgitated ideology and a tension level reaching the upper thousands. Three day forecast includes a moderate chop of ad hominem attacks and a slight chance for moderator intervention.

Stay tuned.

Ah, but forecasts are for weather, not climate...:lol:

 

[crushing]

I'm not a denier of the global climate change that has gone on for billions of years, but I want to jump in because the water seems so nice and warm.

Wouldn't it be something if it is the restrictions on pollution from laws such as the Clean Air act that are leading to warmer temperatures? And, a cooler 20th century was due to the industrial revolution spewing out unfiltered clouds of smoke and dirty coal was the main fuel of boilers and electric generation?

Man is still egocentric. Man once thought he was the center of the universe. Now he thinks, despite 4.5 billion years of climate change, that the 20th century climate is how it should always be.

MAN! More powerful than Eyjafjallajokull and can leap solar activity in a single bound!

 

[Empty Hands]

Wouldn't it be something if it is the restrictions on pollution from laws such as the Clean Air act that are leading to warmer temperatures?

That's true, particulates (like soot) have a cooling effect. Cleaning up the air is not the only reason for the warming however, and air full of particulates may be cool, but it has lots of other effects like acid rain and health problems. Fix both.

 

[jks9199]

I can't speak for others -- but the issue I have is the idea that we know enough to say why the temps have been rising. I don't deny at all that mean temps have risen. But I question the idea that we are the sole or even primary cause. I'm not saying we're not, nor am I saying we haven't effected the climate. But we just don't have enough data, over a long enough time, with enough quality to be able to assign causation to such a complex system.

 

[Blade96]

You tell em Ramirez.

any deniers wanna have a bite? They say that humans dont have an effect upon the climmate or nature, world, etc.

They are welcome to explain this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

Have a nice day.

 

[Empty Hands]

But we just don't have enough data, over a long enough time, with enough quality to be able to assign causation to such a complex system.

How do you know? Have you made an exhaustive survey of the literature?

The data is extremely compelling. It can't really get any more so without constructing new planets to demonstrate multiple experimental conditions.

Steven Jay Gould defined a fact as "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." Considering the strength of the data, the denialist movement has long since entered the realm of perversity. It would make just as much sense to doubt/deny the Theory of Relativity or the Theory of Evolution (oops). The data on all is just as strong. To somehow believe otherwise against such a mountain of data requires either ignorance or an agenda.

 

[MBuzzy]

FACT will never hold up to people's entrenched ideas or opinions though. We just had a thread about that. There are people who REFUSE to believe that it is mankind's fault and there are those who refuse to accept any other possibility than it IS our fault.

While I think that we are having an effect, I also can't deny nature cycling and other factors beyound our knowledge or control. My bottom line thinking on the matter is that it hurts no one to try to fix the problem, it only helps us - so cause and effect matter not.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As usual, AGW (Anthropogenic or man-caused Global Warming) believers refuse to recognize differences in opinion.

When honestly-felt doubt is cast in a negative light as one who is apostate in some bombastic religion, I tend to run away in the opposite direction. In other words, even if the AGW believers were right, I'd hate them anyway. I'd hate their evil slimy guts, because they don't seek debate and understanding, they seek to silence, destroy, and demonize anyone who doesn't agree with them. Take your Global Warming God and shove him sideways up your anal orifice, please.

Just because I have doubts that climate change is caused primarily by humans does not mean I doubt that climate change happens.

Just because climate change happens does not mean that it is unnatural.

Even if climate change is being caused by the agency of humans, that is no reason to believe that the agency of humans can stop it.

And most importantly - I don't care about climate change, whether it is caused by humans or not; with one exception. If the climate is going to change significantly in my lifetime, I will plan my activities to profit by it to the extent possible, and plan my retirement in climes that are now less expensive and more northerly so that they'll be expensive and toasty when I get there and I'll have bought cheap.

I do not care about climate change. It's useless hand-wringing at best and a waste of my tax dollars at worst.

A 'denier'? Please. I'm a realist. It doesn't matter and I don't care anyway. Believers; not only do I refuse to worship your God, but I'll urinate on your graves while spraying fluorocarbons into the air above them. Non servium, baby.

 

[teekin]

As usual, AGW (Anthropogenic or man-caused Global Warming) believers refuse to recognize differences in opinion.

When honestly-felt doubt is cast in a negative light as one who is apostate in some bombastic religion, I tend to run away in the opposite direction. In other words, even if the AGW believers were right, I'd hate them anyway. I'd hate their evil slimy guts, because they don't seek debate and understanding, they seek to silence, destroy, and demonize anyone who doesn't agree with them. Take your Global Warming God and shove him sideways up your anal orifice, please.

Just because I have doubts that climate change is caused primarily by humans does not mean I doubt that climate change happens.

Just because climate change happens does not mean that it is unnatural.

Even if climate change is being caused by the agency of humans, that is no reason to believe that the agency of humans can stop it.

And most importantly - I don't care about climate change, whether it is caused by humans or not; with one exception. If the climate is going to change significantly in my lifetime, I will plan my activities to profit by it to the extent possible, and plan my retirement in climes that are now less expensive and more northerly so that they'll be expensive and toasty when I get there and I'll have bought cheap.

I do not care about climate change. It's useless hand-wringing at best and a waste of my tax dollars at worst.

A 'denier'? Please. I'm a realist. It doesn't matter and I don't care anyway. Believers; not only do I refuse to worship your God, but I'll urinate on your graves while spraying fluorocarbons into the air above them. Non servium, baby.

Well at least the flowers and grass around my grave will grow. ( Bill, this is a Odd sentiment )

Lori

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well at least the flowers and grass around my grave will grow. ( Bill, this is a Odd sentiment )

Lori

Yeah, it was a little over-the-top, eh? Sorry, my bad.

I have to say that AGW advocates tend to push my buttons. They come around every so often to regurgitate some little factoid in my face with a snide "NOW what you got to say, you deniers?!?!?!" It annoys me. Probably more than it should.

 

[teekin]

Bill, sweetie, no worries, we ALL have those buttons. Mine is women's rights or lack there of. We all have something that get's us to put on the Crazypants. :matrix::erg: . have a good day Ducky.

Lori

 

[chaos1551]

I vote we just remove a tiny bit of mercury (or whatever we use now) from all the thermometers in the world.

You all do realize that a large volcano is going to erupt in the near future and cool the earth down by 10 degrees worldwide for the next twenty years, right? Most of the crops will die, people will starve en masse and the problem will be very much mitigated. Especially with the thermometers all showing lower temperatures anyway.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I vote we just remove a tiny bit of mercury (or whatever we use now) from all the thermometers in the world.

You all do realize that a large volcano is going to erupt in the near future and cool the earth down by 10 degrees worldwide for the next twenty years, right? Most of the crops will die, people will starve en masse and the problem will be very much mitigated. Especially with the thermometers all showing lower temperatures anyway.

Department of Irony here...

The US is planning to phase out the use of mercury thermometers over the next decade, as mercury pollutes. Mercury batteries for such things as film cameras were phased out a decade ago, they're illegal everywhere now.

Funny thing - environmentally-friendly CFL (compact florescent lights) have significant amounts of mercury in them, but they're legal. Why? Because they're hip and trendy and fashionable amongst the Granola-crunching bunny-hugging hand-wringers, that's why.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7431198

They pretend they 'fixed' the problem by making it illegal to discard them in landfills, meaning it's illegal for YOU to throw them away with your household trash. Did you know that? Most people don't. They just throw them away when they die. And the greenies don't care; it's just a sop for their consciences.

Mercury? Who gives a crap? We're saving the planet, bubba!

Thermometers and cameras batteries are or will be outlawed due to mercury, but CFL's, no problem at all. Bring 'em on!

Ah, the environmentalists make me sick.

 

[CanuckMA]

The other dirty secret about CFLs is that a lot of the energy savings, especially in cold climates, is not truly realized.

First, any application requiring a real dimmer will use halogen, which waste a lot of heat.

Second, in cold climates, for the better part of the year, we HEAT our house. The surplus heat that incadescent bulbs used to provide is now being provided by other source of heating.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

My opinion on Global Warming. Are humans are making it worse, however it is going to happen even if we did not. We are simply making it more rapid.

What I gets me are the uniformed people who think because of record lows in some areas during the winter that global warming does not exist. Hello people it means the earth overall is warming up which can cause different weather patterns.

Does it really matter? We are going to kill each other off and if somehow we manage to repair the environment what when the sun explodes. We are always going to be looking down a barrel of a gun.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What I gets me are the uniformed people who think because of record lows in some areas during the winter that global warming does not exist. Hello people it means the earth overall is warming up which can cause different weather patterns.

It might mean that, or it might mean a whole raft of other things. The global climate has changed many times in the history of the world. We only have accurate day-by-day records for the past few hundred years. We have no basis on which to make a projection of global cycles.

Furthermore, climate change simply happens. Over and over and over again. We happen to live in a very lucky band to which our own species is able to adapt. This is no more 'natural' than climates of the past in which we could not have survived.

Given that, I am willing to stipulate that global warming is the current trend. I am doubtful that human agency caused it, but like you, I don't think it much matters either way. I also have serious doubts that we can actually change it back again through human agency.

Does it really matter? We are going to kill each other off and if somehow we manage to repair the environment what when the sun explodes. We are always going to be looking down a barrel of a gun.

The sun is unlikely to explode anytime soon, but huge solar flares are one way of many in which we might face an extinction event sooner rather than later. Gamma ray bursts, seismic activity from super calderas, and meteor or comet strikes could all end the game in the blink of an eye. We do have the power to significantly degrade our ability to survive through various other means, such as nuclear annihilation, too.

Overall, I don't know if we broke the planet, but I don't much care, either.