Fraying the Bonds of Religion?

[Sukerkin]

Beauty pageants might not be the first thing that springs to mind as being a front-line for social issues but this one might just be a little different:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12860407

This beautiful lass is putting herself in quite a dangerous position to make a point and I for one applaud her courage to do so. Some good may even come of it.

 

[Big Don]

How sad is this? How ridiculous is this?

 

[granfire]

Not a fan of pageants myself, but sheesh...I hope she wins!.


Thing about modesty...it's not in the clothes.


(it's only an excuse for men to behave badly: OMG there was skin...)

 

[shesulsa]

And where are all the Christians who claim lust is of the devil?

 

[granfire]

And where are all the Christians who claim lust is of the devil?

Lusting in closets....pointing fingers (and making hideous prom dresses for little Mormon girls)

 

[billc]

I would suggest that she takes the threats very seriously. I hope British law enforcemnet is taking these threats seriously and provide some protection for her.

 

[granfire]

I would suggest that she takes the threats very seriously. I hope British law enforcemnet is taking these threats seriously and provide some protection for her.

Yes, and then again, no pain, no gain. The risk takers advance the world, not followers.
Sometimes the personal risk taken is enormous. Sometimes they pay with their lives.

 

[K831]

And where are all the Christians who claim lust is of the devil?

If reading comprehension serves me right, the article is about her Muslim faith, how her actions fit within that faiths moral standards and others of her faith's response to her... but hey, take a shot at Christians while you can, right?

Lusting in closets....pointing fingers (and making hideous prom dresses for little Mormon girls)

Wow you're a judgmental one, aren't you? I suppose anyone with any moral conviction, or desire to seek relationships built on more than just physical lust is a hypocrite who lusts and points fingers in closets, and anyone who wears a dress considered modest by today’s new "standards" is wearing something hideous. Because of course, if it doesn't show a ton of cleavage on a 16 year old girl going to prom, it must be hideous.

Heck, it’s the study, where we get on our soap box about freedom, tolerance and open-mindedness, while condemning others and taking shots at their beliefs. How nice.


"People are attacking me, using religion as a tool, but is it really religion?
"Or are you really jealous of a girl coming forward and not allowing anyone to dictate to her?
"There are people out there who want to control women," Shanna said.


Not allowing anyone to dictate to her? Like those who control a pageant dictating her worth, in part, based on weather or not she looks good in a bikini? This is where people err when it comes to the religious notion of modesty. That principle is designed to teach all people that their inherent worth isn’t tied to their physical appearance, and that to do so based on cup size or biceps cheats that person’s true worth. Society today is at odds with religion here, precisely because it attaches worth, admiration and wealth to arbitrary and superficial aspects of a person.

Yes there are people who want to control women, and all those who use “liberation” as an excuse to push them into “objectification” meet that criteria.


I think if she wants to compete in a pageant that’s great. I hope she does well, and I hope she can keep it in perspective – time tested moral and ethical principles have many benefits, and their erosion is often not the “advancement” it is claimed to be, as other past societies have discovered.

Any anger, hate or violence directed toward this young woman in the name of religion would be terribly inappropriate and at odds with most an religious tenant. However, to attack other religions, the notion of modesty in general, or any who hold such convictions…due to some angry and misguided zealots in the Middle East is…. Well, typical of many in the “study” I guess.

 

[granfire]

If reading comprehension serves me right, the article is about her Muslim faith, how her actions fit within that faiths moral standards and others of her faith's response to her... but hey, take a shot at Christians while you can, right?



Wow you're a judgmental one, aren't you? I suppose anyone with any moral conviction, or desire to seek relationships built on more than just physical lust is a hypocrite who lusts and points fingers in closets, and anyone who wears a dress considered modest by today’s new "standards" is wearing something hideous. Because of course, if it doesn't show a ton of cleavage on a 16 year old girl going to prom, it must be hideous.

Heck, it’s the study, where we get on our soap box about freedom, tolerance and open-mindedness, while condemning others and taking shots at their beliefs. How nice.


"People are attacking me, using religion as a tool, but is it really religion?
"Or are you really jealous of a girl coming forward and not allowing anyone to dictate to her?
"There are people out there who want to control women," Shanna said.


Not allowing anyone to dictate to her? Like those who control a pageant dictating her worth, in part, based on weather or not she looks good in a bikini? This is where people err when it comes to the religious notion of modesty. That principle is designed to teach all people that their inherent worth isn’t tied to their physical appearance, and that to do so based on cup size or biceps cheats that person’s true worth. Society today is at odds with religion here, precisely because it attaches worth, admiration and wealth to arbitrary and superficial aspects of a person.

Yes there are people who want to control women, and all those who use “liberation” as an excuse to push them into “objectification” meet that criteria.


I think if she wants to compete in a pageant that’s great. I hope she does well, and I hope she can keep it in perspective – time tested moral and ethical principles have many benefits, and their erosion is often not the “advancement” it is claimed to be, as other past societies have discovered.

Any anger, hate or violence directed toward this young woman in the name of religion would be terribly inappropriate and at odds with most an religious tenant. However, to attack other religions, the notion of modesty in general, or any who hold such convictions…due to some angry and misguided zealots in the Middle East is…. Well, typical of many in the “study” I guess.

No, I suffered through a catalog of 'modest prom dresses' in order to help a little Moslim girl getting dressed up for her prom while not revealing anything her faith and parents won't allow. Those dresses were hideous, on all scales of taste, the only redeeming quality was that they covered up skin.

One can do better, much better.
(that's not to say I find the unmodest prom dresses any better in the taste department, just easier to find something decent looking there, the selection is bigger)


Also, there is the assumption that modesty lies within the clothes. naked people can be completely modest, dressed to the gills ones the polar opposite.

 

[shesulsa]

Quite the vitriol there - and I do believe you read far more into ... well, my post at least ... than was there or completely misunderstood it.

If reading comprehension serves me right, the article is about her Muslim faith, how her actions fit within that faiths moral standards and others of her faith's response to her... but hey, take a shot at Christians while you can, right?

Sure, why not? I am one.

My point was that there isn't much religious about a pageant at all and it's a little disgusting, honestly, that we line women up and judge them on appearances rather than true conviction, community service or constitution. It's distasteful to me that Christian or Jewish faiths don't often say much about the females in their organizations baring their skin, enhancing their beauty for a social title. I actually think it's high time religious organizations were a bit less dialectic and embraced the whole message rather than what suits them when it suits them.

My question, wondering where the Christians who abhor lust is an honest one - where, indeed, ARE they? Why aren't they complaining about the baring of flesh, or ... is that permitted in the Bible? Hm? One wonders ....

Wow you're a judgmental one, aren't you? I suppose anyone with any moral conviction, or desire to seek relationships built on more than just physical lust is a hypocrite who lusts and points fingers in closets, and anyone who wears a dress considered modest by today’s new "standards" is wearing something hideous. Because of course, if it doesn't show a ton of cleavage on a 16 year old girl going to prom, it must be hideous.

You might want to re-read the first question of that quote back to yourself there, friend.

Heck, it’s the study, where we get on our soap box about freedom, tolerance and open-mindedness, while condemning others and taking shots at their beliefs. How nice.

To me, I'm condemning the pageantry module of the conversation and frankly am not surprised at the religious reaction, but I *am* disgusted by the threats of violence against her.

"People are attacking me, using religion as a tool, but is it really religion?
"Or are you really jealous of a girl coming forward and not allowing anyone to dictate to her?
"There are people out there who want to control women," Shanna said.

Yeah, I suppose if she wants to capitalize on her looks in the world created by men that only superficial beauty is worthwhile, then she should have the right to do so. I also understand the rest of the meaning behind her statement in that the religious right of every culture in the world will ALWAYS be built on the subservience of women.

Not allowing anyone to dictate to her? Like those who control a pageant dictating her worth, in part, based on weather or not she looks good in a bikini? This is where people err when it comes to the religious notion of modesty. That principle is designed to teach all people that their inherent worth isn’t tied to their physical appearance, and that to do so based on cup size or biceps cheats that person’s true worth. Society today is at odds with religion here, precisely because it attaches worth, admiration and wealth to arbitrary and superficial aspects of a person.

I don't disagree - it's the religious double standard that sickens me.

Yes there are people who want to control women, and all those who use “liberation” as an excuse to push them into “objectification” meet that criteria.

Nice. Tell me how "liberated" women "push" other women into "objectification?" I would really like to hear your ideas here.

I think if she wants to compete in a pageant that’s great. I hope she does well, and I hope she can keep it in perspective – time tested moral and ethical principles have many benefits, and their erosion is often not the “advancement” it is claimed to be, as other past societies have discovered.

Agreed.

Any anger, hate or violence directed toward this young woman in the name of religion would be terribly inappropriate and at odds with most an religious tenant. However, to attack other religions, the notion of modesty in general, or any who hold such convictions…due to some angry and misguided zealots in the Middle East is…. Well, typical of many in the “study” I guess.

Well thanks! Thanks a bunch!

What *I* would say, instead, is that it is so ironic it's *poetic* that such a group so devoted to the degradation of women are vehemently opposed to ... the degradation of women.