flag patches on gis

[Bill Mattocks]

Yeah. I think you guys established that a ways back.

Burning a tattered flag to properly retire it is respectful.
Burning a flag, throwing it on the ground, trampling it and cursing the country it represents isn't.

A harder call is to judge conflicting intentions. Extremists on opposite sides of an issue typically believe that their side is both right and righteous.

I don't judge at all. There is a standard for treatment of the flag, and it's easy to understand. There is no penalty for breaking it, so people have to decide what they're going to do. I don't judge them; I know what the code says and what it does not say. Personal interpretation ain't in it.

 

[Steve]

I don't judge at all. There is a standard for treatment of the flag, and it's easy to understand. There is no penalty for breaking it, so people have to decide what they're going to do. I don't judge them; I know what the code says and what it does not say. Personal interpretation ain't in it.

I judge. We have two loons in my neighborhood who run for state senate every two years. They are both very “patriotic”. So much so, they have tattered US flags all over their cars and homes.

But I can be a little judgy, I guess. For example, I also judge people who don’t put their carts away at the grocery store. And people who drive in the left lane on a two lane highway.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I judge. We have two loons in my neighborhood who run for state senate every two years. They are both very “patriotic”. So much so, they have tattered US flags all over their cars and homes.

But I can be a little judgy, I guess. For example, I also judge people who don’t put their carts away at the grocery store. And people who drive in the left lane on a two lane highway.

I've always been judgy and I've always thought quite a lot of myself. This is a character flaw I see in myself in my later years. I am trying very hard to correct it. I literally find myself judging someone in my head and I have to say "Stop it, you're no better than he (or she) is, and you have no idea what their reasons are for (x,y,z)." I am literally the most mediocre person there could be. I am not a talented martial artist, I am not a great person. I am maybe OK on a good day. I have to be at peace with that and I have to let others be what they are without my judgment.

Flags? I know the law, which is a funny kind of law because it's unenforceable. But I break it too. No excuses. I'm just not going to lie to myself about what I'm doing.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I've always been judgy and I've always thought quite a lot of myself. This is a character flaw I see in myself in my later years. I am trying very hard to correct it. I literally find myself judging someone in my head and I have to say "Stop it, you're no better than he (or she) is, and you have no idea what their reasons are for (x,y,z)." I am literally the most mediocre person there could be. I am not a talented martial artist, I am not a great person. I am maybe OK on a good day. I have to be at peace with that and I have to let others be what they are without my judgment.

Flags? I know the law, which is a funny kind of law because it's unenforceable. But I break it too. No excuses. I'm just not going to lie to myself about what I'm doing.

It's one thing to acknowledge the law for what it is, and obey the law because it's the law.

However, it sounds as if the law is dictating your own personal morals. If choosing to obey the law violates your own personal morals, no problem with that at all because it's for the greater good of society. As long as you still know what your own personal morals are, and not allow them to be dictated by the law.

 

[Steve]

I've always been judgy and I've always thought quite a lot of myself. This is a character flaw I see in myself in my later years. I am trying very hard to correct it. I literally find myself judging someone in my head and I have to say "Stop it, you're no better than he (or she) is, and you have no idea what their reasons are for (x,y,z)." I am literally the most mediocre person there could be. I am not a talented martial artist, I am not a great person. I am maybe OK on a good day. I have to be at peace with that and I have to let others be what they are without my judgment.

Flags? I know the law, which is a funny kind of law because it's unenforceable. But I break it too. No excuses. I'm just not going to lie to myself about what I'm doing.

You're a good guy, Bill.

 

[Steve]

It's one thing to acknowledge the law for what it is, and obey the law because it's the law.

However, it sounds as if the law is dictating your own personal morals. If choosing to obey the law violates your own personal morals, no problem with that at all because it's for the greater good of society. As long as you still know what your own personal morals are, and not allow them to be dictated by the law.

Moral people have values and these values inform the decisions they make. One very common value is following rules. My wife is a rules follower, even when the rules don't make sense. Her values aren't dictated by the law; rather, following the law IS the value. And she's definitely in the right job.

We all have many values... and sometimes those values come into conflict. For example, if there is a rule or a law that bumps up against another of your deeply held values, do you follow the unjust law or do you choose not to?

Why do people value the flag? Some possible reasons: it's a symbol of our national values (with which they agree), it's patriotic, it's the "law" (not enforceable, but even so), it's respectful... and so on.

So all that to say, I just think it's the other way around. It's not the law that dictates the morals; it's one's morals that influence whether and how they relate to the law.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Her values aren't dictated by the law; rather, following the law IS the value.

Right, but just because your values might be following the law doesn't mean that a specific law aligns with your values. Your values might simply compel you to follow the law, whether not the specific law aligns with your values.

Here's an example. You're at a long red light at 3:00 am, and there are no other cars there. Your values of obeying the law compel to wait until the light turns green, despite the fact that outside of the law, you may have personal values that would have otherwise allowed you to run the red light.

Now if you happen to be in a parking lot and get upset after watching someone else in the same situation run the red light, you've allowed the law to dictate your values. Why do you care if someone else did it? Because it breaks the law? Well, that's between that driver and whatever police officer catches them. If that driver doesn't get caught, then what's it to anyone else?

 

[Steve]

Right, but just because your values might be following the law doesn't mean that a specific law aligns with your values. Your values might simply compel you to follow the law, whether not the specific law aligns with your values.

Here's an example. You're at a long red light at 3:00 am, and there are no other cars there. Your values of obeying the law compel to wait until the light turns green, despite the fact that outside of the law, you may have personal values that would have otherwise allowed you to run the red light.

Now if you happen to be in a parking lot and get upset after watching someone else in the same situation run the red light, you've allowed the law to dictate your values. Why do you care if someone else did it? Because it breaks the law? Well, that's between that driver and whatever police officer catches them. If that driver doesn't get caught, then what's it to anyone else?

Totally. That's what I mean when I was talking about how your values can sometimes come into conflict. This is a great example of that. Totally agree.

Another example... when a veteran protests a war by burning a flag, what do you think is going on there? Has that person abandoned the values that led them to enlist in the military and serve their country? It's possible... but what's much more likely is that the values that led them to enlist are either consistent with their protest or that the values that led them to enlist are in direct conflict with them.

 

[drop bear]

Totally. That's what I mean when I was talking about how your values can sometimes come into conflict. This is a great example of that. Totally agree.

Another example... when a veteran protests a war by burning a flag, what do you think is going on there? Has that person abandoned the values that led them to enlist in the military and serve their country? It's possible... but what's much more likely is that the values that led them to enlist are either consistent with their protest or that the values that led them to enlist are in direct conflict with them.

Some people's morals will lead them to follow the law.

Rather than follow a law their morality aligns with.

Lawful good.

Chaotic good.

 

[GojuTommy]

Flag patches on gis are stupid.
I don’t need to be reminded what country I’m in, nor do I particularly need to announce it to everyone else if I’m at some sort of international event.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Flag patches on gis are stupid.
I don’t need to be reminded what country I’m in, nor do I particularly need to announce it to everyone else if I’m at some sort of international event.

I'm thinking of the scene in Office Space, where Jennifer Aniston's character was discussing how her boss expects all the wait staff to have more "flare" on there uniforms. Seems like some people believe that "more flare" makes their uniform look different in a good way

 

[GojuTommy]

Its funny because in Britain I NEVER see the British Flag hung in a place of training Most Gi's or Dobuk's only have the Association tag on the front left breast and Maybe another larger symbol on the back. The only people I know who have British flags ANYWHERE on their Dobuk's are the British Olympic or International Team. In my school certainly we only have the Korean Flag hanging (For the Hapkido class). I've never really understood why you guys hang your Flag EVERYWHERE........is it incase you forget your American? Nah I'm playin.......still it is kinda an American thing

Not to get too political, but it’s because 9/11 and the war on terror destroyed any real culture we had, and it was replaced with nationalism disguised as patriotism.

Our culture became simply ‘America’ patriotism became nationalism, individualism became just a word with no real meaning.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Flag patches on gis are stupid.
I don’t need to be reminded what country I’m in, nor do I particularly need to announce it to everyone else if I’m at some sort of international event.

If you read through the thread, you would see a discussion on a lot of other examples of patches than specific events or countries.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thread locked pending staff review for political posts.

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Gerry Seymour
MT Moderator
@Gerry Seymour