Filed under the heading of "What were they thinking?"

[mango.man]

So yesterday was the "California State TKD Championships", put on by the California Unified TKD Assoc which is the recognized state org for Calif. by USAT. I put "Calif State Champs" in quotes though because the CUTA hosts 3 or 4 events a year that are all called the "Calif State Champs" so it is hard to say just which one should be considered the real deal. Besides CUTA has the worst timing in the world for their events and this one yesterday is no exception what with USA Jr Team Trails next week in Colo Spgs, all the best fighters that are going to that event are not going to risk anything this weekend, plus SATs going on at local high schools all over Calif kept a lot of people that would have been there, away.

So enough of that rant, on to my story.

We have a VERY talented young (12 years old) fighter on our team that consistently takes apart and destroys all the opponents that she regularly faces. In order to gain some higher level experience, her parents went ahead and registered her in the 14-17 BB division instead of the usual 12-13 year old division.

Well unfortunately she did not get much in the way of high level experience because her fight (like has often happened when she fought in the 12-13 and before that 10-12 divisions) did not even last 15 seconds.

Her opponent, who really was somewhere between 14-17 years old ended up on her butt 2 times from solid cut/push kicks and suffered 2 pretty brutal shots to the head in between and ended up in tears and just quit 15 seconds in.

Later we came to find out that it was that girl's first ever tournament in her life. Not her first as a BB. Not her first in the 14-17 division. Just straight up the first time she has ever competed.

There is no doubt, in my mind at least, that the 14-17 year old BBs are the most dynamic and fun to watch fights at these events and are often brutal.

All I can think is "What kind of 'Master' would send out a fighter to fight her very first fight ever as a 14-17 BB at a State Championship event?" I can find you probably a dozen or more TKD tournaments in California on any given weekend of the year where you can send that girl out to get some ring time and experience.

I took out my phone and looked up the school's website, just to see what I could figure out. Turns out that the school just opened in May of this year. Not sure if this girl started as a white belt and somehow made the leap to Black in just 7 short months or if she transfered from someplace else. Also the "Master" apparently holds 2nd degree BBs in Kempo and Ju Jitsu, a 5th dan in something called "the original traditional style of Taekwon-do", as well as 4th dan in something called "Olympic sport Taekwondo" which apparently "uniquely qualifies him to teach to a very wide range of students, from the young Olympic hopeful, to the more mature practitioner."

 

[Archtkd]

Mango.man, what a story! Sad, though, and could even have been tragic. It's terrible to learn parents are entrusting their children with "masters" like this who make us all look bad.

 

[granfire]

4th dan in Olympic Sport TKD?

Did I miss something?

Poor girl, I suppose she won't be back after that baptism by fire.

 

[ATC]

Yeah, it happens. We had a girl that was decent but not ready for National or International events. Well her parents registered her for last years US Open. She had just got promoted to Black Belt and had been to quite a few local torunements. However all of us instructors told her she was not ready for this level of competition but her parents would hear none of us. They thought because she always won at the local tourney's that she would be OK. I tried to tell them that she is a Sr. Black Belt and that she would be going againt others that have been BB for a while and had been training and competeing for years. Still no go. They thought she was ready.

Well to make a long story short, she got KO'd in the first round of her first match. And it was bad. Guess what. She quit and now does not do TKD anymore. I have seen many BB think they know what to expect move up in competition and get overwhelmed and have their spririts broken.

One she had no choach because she did not get authorized to go and no one wanted to coach her because we all knew what the outcome was going to be. Not only did she make herself look bad but the school to. Our GM was furious that she went.

Bad bad bad to have a BB with no fights at all though.

 

[IcemanSK]

I hate to say it this way but, especially here in California. We're known for hitting hard out here. I wouldn't be surprised if this kid is ruined for Taekwondo now. Really sad.

 

[Archtkd]

Later we came to find out that it was that girl's first ever tournament in her life. Not her first as a BB. Not her first in the 14-17 division. Just straight up the first time she has ever competed."

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like the coach, rather than parental pressure, led to this disaster.

 

[mango.man]

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like the coach, rather than parental pressure, led to this disaster.

Which is why I asked: "What kind of 'Master' would send out a fighter to fight her very first fight ever as a 14-17 BB at a State Championship event?"

 

[MA-Caver]

To me it throws all that training right out the fricken window. Because if she breaks down facing a real opponent in the ring then what about in the real world?

Bad trainer = bad students. Should've had her competing much sooner in regular tourneys and such to get used to the fact that she's facing folks OUTSIDE her school and that they will be hard, but not so hard as to be determined to WIN, but IMO a good instructor will tell their students get in there and learn .. you don't HAVE to win this time around just learn how to take hits and give hits like we've showed you... if you win ... great... if not then at least come way having learned something valuable for the next time around
At a championship there's the determination to win.
How did this girl even QUALIFY to enter if she hasn't competed before? In my mind one would have to have a certain number of wins to even get INTO the championships to show that they have the experience to be in there in the first place?
Or am I missing something here?

 

[mango.man]

USAT nationals (world class) and team trial events require prior qualification but most events are open tourneys where anyone can participate. This was an open event. CUTA usually has just one event each year that one must previously qualify for which is when they put together a team for the World Taekwondo Festival.

 

[ATC]

...How did this girl even QUALIFY to enter if she hasn't competed before? In my mind one would have to have a certain number of wins to even get INTO the championships to show that they have the experience to be in there in the first place?
Or am I missing something here?

Even a qualifier is an event where you have to fight the best of the best. The best qualify the rest don't.

 

[granfire]

Well to make a long story short, she got KO'd in the first round of her first match. And it was bad. Guess what. She quit and now does not do TKD anymore. I have seen many BB think they know what to expect move up in competition and get overwhelmed and have their spririts broken.

One she had no choach because she did not get authorized to go and no one wanted to coach her because we all knew what the outcome was going to be. Not only did she make herself look bad but the school to. Our GM was furious that she went.

Bad bad bad to have a BB with no fights at all though.

another poor girl. why oh why did nobody go along with her to minimize damage?!

 

[Jphtkd]

Which is why I asked: "What kind of 'Master' would send out a fighter to fight her very first fight ever as a 14-17 BB at a State Championship event?"

I agree on the surface it looks bad for the instructor, but don't be so quick to judge... I had a 12 yr. old student (who got his first poom from another instructor and had only been training with me for about six months) who had never competed before but his parents insisted that he go to the state qualifier and compete. After a month of trying to talk them out of it I was faced with two options, either way this was gonna be a tough lesson for the child. I could have sent him alone with no coach, or I could go with him and at least do my best to try and keep him from harm. His performance was dismal, he lost and quit shortly after.

 

[jks9199]

Yes, it sounds like the girl shouldn't have been there.

But the problem, as others have said, has many sides. Why'd the instructor send her with so little experience? Does the instructor have experience himself? Was he even there or aware of it? Maybe this tournament is different -- but generally, if you walk in, pay the fee, and sign the forms, you can compete, right? Was it her -- or her parents who put her there?

I respect JPHTKD's approach in a similar bind; it's all you can do. At least he tried to minimize the damage. One possible alternative is to show, in class and training, something of what they may face in competition. But you can't do that if you've never been there and seen what happens...

 

[Gorilla]

I saw the match...A very tough deal for that young girl...She should have never been there...In the Masters defense he along with the Center Ref stopped it before she really got hurt...Sport TKD can be brutal when you have a mismatch...If they would have let this go it would have ended in a tragic KO

Mangoman...Sam looked very good...I think that she is going to be a great Senior...Sorry we did not get to chat much...I was in a fog on Saturday that is a long day trip Las Vegas to LA and then back home 550 miles and a 20 hour day at least Charlie had 3 good matches (Kyle fought well! He always give Charlie a tough match)

 

[Tez3]

This sadly happens in a lot of places, we had a fight night a couple of years ago and were approached to match a female kickboxing bout on it. The girl's coach said she was a European champion very experienced and in her twenties. He even had newspaper articles about her and her wins. Anyway we matched her with a girl Michael Bisping (pre TUF) was training. On the day of the fight it was obvious the girl was younger than stated, turned out she was 16 but was still 'brilliant' according to coach. Bisping's fighter came out looking cut, fit and mean. she knocked the young lass for six every which way until she went down, the ref stopped the fight and told her to stay down until she stopped crying to save her embarrassment. It was awful and it made us look bad for making the match. Seems the girl was farily experienced in TKD but not full contact kick boxing with only boxing gloves and gum shield, no headguards or body protection, no shin or feet pads either. She left with a nasty blackeye and cut lip and not been heard of again.

 

[Gorilla]

This sadly happens in a lot of places, we had a fight night a couple of years ago and were approached to match a female kickboxing bout on it. The girl's coach said she was a European champion very experienced and in her twenties. He even had newspaper articles about her and her wins. Anyway we matched her with a girl Michael Bisping (pre TUF) was training. On the day of the fight it was obvious the girl was younger than stated, turned out she was 16 but was still 'brilliant' according to coach. Bisping's fighter came out looking cut, fit and mean. she knocked the young lass for six every which way until she went down, the ref stopped the fight and told her to stay down until she stopped crying to save her embarrassment. It was awful and it made us look bad for making the match. Seems the girl was farily experienced in TKD but not full contact kick boxing with only boxing gloves and gum shield, no headguards or body protection, no shin or feet pads either. She left with a nasty blackeye and cut lip and not been heard of again.

It is a big jump from TKD to kickboxing, Allot of people are naive to that fact.
you have to condition your body completely differently and you committed to take punishment is much more intense. It is a whole different sport. We have a girl who trains with us on occasion who kick boxes she has trouble transitioning to the TKD game as well just two different things!

 

[ATC]

another poor girl. why oh why did nobody go along with her to minimize damage?!

There would have been nothing anyone could do. No coaching in the world will help you when you are just over matched.

I have video of another girl that had her first fight as a BB at a local tournement. She got unlucky and drew Chelsie from Manila TKD. She lost in 18 seconds. No KO, but she left the mat in pain and tears. I will put it up to show you what a miss match looks like in the BB womens division.

 

[granfire]

There would have been nothing anyone could do. No coaching in the world will help you when you are just over matched.

I have video of another girl that had her first fight as a BB at a local tournement. She got unlucky and drew Chelsie from Manila TKD. She lost in 18 seconds. No KO, but she left the mat in pain and tears. I will put it up to show you what a miss match looks like in the BB womens division.

LOL, I am sure I can imagine, but not having somebody coach her does not reflect good on the school, regardless of how stupid the parents are. At least the coach could have relativated the impact and put an ice pack on the bruise. Not to mention hand the parents a bill for the service.

You can't protect them from being kicked in the head, but it sure is a bit easier to take when somebody is in your corner.

Just saying. I don't have sympathy for the parents, but they didn't get knocked on their butts.

 

[granfire]

I agree on the surface it looks bad for the instructor, but don't be so quick to judge... I had a 12 yr. old student (who got his first poom from another instructor and had only been training with me for about six months) who had never competed before but his parents insisted that he go to the state qualifier and compete. After a month of trying to talk them out of it I was faced with two options, either way this was gonna be a tough lesson for the child. I could have sent him alone with no coach, or I could go with him and at least do my best to try and keep him from harm. His performance was dismal, he lost and quit shortly after.

I mean, you can't save them all for the sport, but hat's where you need your coach, to dispense a bear hug and the 'been there, wasn't fun but we keep on keeping on' speech.

The tough lessons are the ones that shape us. But yeah, the parents should not put the ids into the situation...

(and as the 'hired help' you only have so much input....)

 

[Tez3]

It is a big jump from TKD to kickboxing, Allot of people are naive to that fact.
you have to condition your body completely differently and you committed to take punishment is much more intense. It is a whole different sport. We have a girl who trains with us on occasion who kick boxes she has trouble transitioning to the TKD game as well just two different things!

Absolutely but I think there's too many coaches in martial arts (not singling out TKD, it's across the board) who simply don't have the experience and knowledge to coach fighters. They can spar in their clubs and schools and think thats all thats involved.
Taking full contact blows to the head is potentially dangerous at any age. The headguard does very little to protect the brain which, when the head is hit, rattles against the skull causing bruising. Here in MMA we don't allow anyone under 16, more usually 18, to fight full contact with head shots. It's not character building to take headshots at a young age not is saying because they are only young the strikes won't be strong, it doesn't matter, the brain still hits the skull and bruises, sometimes it bleeds badly and then if not caught or operated on, you die. Sometimes you die anyway.