Fighting Larger People

[MJS]

I was watching the latest UFC with Randy and Brock. Randy is 6'1, 225lbs. Brock is 6'2, 265lbs. For those not familiar with Brock, here is some info from Sherdog. Its obvious that he's a huge man and has some skill.

I try to be aware of my surroundings when I'm out, so there are times, when I'll glance around the area, and my eyes catch someone who is bigger than I am. For the sake of discussion, I'm 5'10, 207lbs. I sometimes think of what I would do to defend myself against a larger person, should I be attacked.

So, this brings me to the question: What would YOU do if you were fighting someone larger than you? I'm not talking about a cage fight, but a SD situation. Aside from picking up a weapon, I'm looking to discuss how you would apply your Ken(m)po, Kajukenbo, etc., on someone such as what I've listed above.

 

[Sukerkin]

It would depend to some extent on just how great the size difference was of course - I have noted that what is big to an American is fecking ginormous to me .

I can only draw on how I was trained and the one time I've used it for my take on this. The answer is quite prosaic in a way.

If I am having to fight someone who is much bigger than me, I would not entertain the idea of trying to 'fight' per se. I would (and did) go straight to the 'Destructive Techniques' tool box; you know, those tools we don't use when we spar. At such a disadvantage in size and strength, I simply could not afford to fight like a gentleman and trade blow for blow.

The way I tend to phrase it is that if I am much smaller than my assailant then he (or indeed, she) is tantermount to 'armed' and that takes the 'safety catch' off what I would use.

 

[terryl965]

Well for ma and my TKD students it would be take out the leg or knee. It sounds easy but alot of training is needed to really take out a knee so the larger opponet cannot get back up.

 

[14 Kempo]

Agree here with Terry, chop them down, take out the base. Also note that soft targets should be used. How is it you guys train your female students? Or how you females train female students for that matter. I train them to attack the eyes, ears, nose, throat, groin and knees ... not neccessarily in that order, I just worked down the body. That would go for smaller guys defending against larger guys as well, at least in my mind.

 

[stickarts]

I would run as fast and as far away as I could and hope to out run him!
If I could not out run him I would try and talk him out of the fight. If I could not talk him out of it I would take advantage of the first opportunity that presented itself whether that be a knee shot, groin shot, etc... and do whatever it took to disable him so I could then run away as I had first planned.

 

[terryl965]

14 we do the same all the sodt area's, in no particular order but withen the reach of them for sure.

 

[kempo]

It would all depend on the person and his pryer training. If it is some drunk guy in a bar that has had no pryer experience, chances are he will either try to grab you or throw a wild right punch to your head I slip or duck under the puch and go to the out side and drop a vicious side kick to his knee, if he goes down, you could strike to his temple, then knee to the face then get away. The knee to the face should be the final blow. But this is just speculation, who knows what I would do given the situation and sircumstances...My2cents

Chris

 

[morph4me]

My strategy would be to cut his legs out from under him, but what I'd really count on is my willingness to defend myself, to convince him that his time would be better spent doing something less self destructive.

 

[Gordon Nore]

All of this makes the argument for learning and training to kick low.

 

[Sukerkin]

Worked for me :whistles:.

 

[ackks10]

well,as for me,let me say i'm 53,and don't want to waste breath on someone by jumping around with them,so if i can not fine an ave of escape, and i have do what i do, so if he is bigger than i ,i would let him get close to me and then i (and i have done this before) i would put my two fingers (brace) right into his eye, you see a man can't hit you if he can't see you,then i would take the knee(if you can) if not take his air, same thing go's as before, a man can't hit you if he can't breath, it works(at lease for me)

 

[marlon]

Well we train for self defense situations where most likely you will be out numbered or being attacked by someone with at least a size advantage over us. All my skk training is done with this mind set so i would defend my self the way i was trained. Hah! that's why i find bigger people have a harder time of it becuase thier size can easily make them neglect technique and make them forget that there is someone out there bigger than they are and usually you wont be attacked by a 75lb weakling.

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I would run as fast and as far away as I could and hope to out run him!
If I could not out run him I would try and talk him out of the fight. If I could not talk him out of it I would take advantage of the first opportunity that presented itself whether that be a knee shot, groin shot, etc... and do whatever it took to disable him so I could then run away as I had first planned.

Various sayings come to mind..."Discretion is the better part of valor", "Distance is your friend", and so on.

One of my worst -- and yet most fun -- memories bouncing was a night at Woody's. This guy who's about 6'6 and pushing 350 pounds, solid muscle body-builder, starts a fight in the club. We have this big boy -- Scott -- who is 6'8", and I think to myself, "Glad he's on it and not me, cuz that bad guy is a big boy...good thing the bad guy doesn't know karate, or we'd be snarfed".

The thought no sooner crosses my mind than I see a foot flash from the big guy and lay across Scotty's face (rounddhouse). Crap, thinks I. And bolt to the brawl to swarm the Hulk. So does the rest of the staff. It takes all of us, and a bartender who was an ex-college football godling to get him down the side of the building and to the parking lot. Bartender and Hulk have locked onto each other, and are swinging wildly. I'm pumping kicks as hard as I can into the BG's gut, and he's feeling none of it (I was 6'3", and approx 240-ish, black belt, weightlifter, yadda, yadda).

Look over my shoulder, and here come his friends. Oh, crap, thinks I. Now, in addition to being outsized, we're outnumbered. Lucky for us, they were just coming to collect their buddy and leave. As they drive away in their T-top Camero, their buddy -- the Hulk -- his head is sticking a full heads height above the T-top roof, hair on his chin blowing in the wind as he's looking back and cursing us.

I tend to think of myself as a pretty good martial artist and a pretty decent and seasoned fighter. Still, I'm pretty sure that -- if I ad to fight him alone -- I woulda gotten creamed. Guys like that hopped up on adrenaline and ccocaine...yyou just can't hit them hard enough to put them down. Poke out an eye? They'll target you with the good one, and use it to find you and put you down. Ideas like "chopping him down with leg shots" are good, but these sorts of plans have a tendency to fall apart once you add chaos and adrenaline to the mix of size and conditioning. It's a little like a life-or-death sniper shot: You get one chance, so you bettter not miss. And getting a person square on the knee where you need to, during a wiggly and mayhem-filled clash, is much harder than you might think...especially if the guy has any training, and is actively engaged in trying to bash in your head with his fists.

My advice? Get out, find a weapon as an equalizer, and keep running until you absolutely MUST stop to use it.

D.

 

[DavidCC]

So, this brings me to the question: What would YOU do if you were fighting someone larger than you?

Same thing I would do against anyone. Just adjust for target height zones and his wing-span. IMHO, changing tactics becasue the guy is big means you have already lost in your mind - you have already decided that you cannot survive unless "something special" is done. Your fear is getting the better of you, and that is no way to win.

 

[ackks10]

Various sayings come to mind..."Discretion is the better part of valor", "Distance is your friend", and so on.

One of my worst -- and yet most fun -- memories bouncing was a night at Woody's. This guy who's about 6'6 and pushing 350 pounds, solid muscle body-builder, starts a fight in the club. We have this big boy -- Scott -- who is 6'8", and I think to myself, "Glad he's on it and not me, cuz that bad guy is a big boy...good thing the bad guy doesn't know karate, or we'd be snarfed".

The thought no sooner crosses my mind than I see a foot flash from the big guy and lay across Scotty's face (rounddhouse). Crap, thinks I. And bolt to the brawl to swarm the Hulk. So does the rest of the staff. It takes all of us, and a bartender who was an ex-college football godling to get him down the side of the building and to the parking lot. Bartender and Hulk have locked onto each other, and are swinging wildly. I'm pumping kicks as hard as I can into the BG's gut, and he's feeling none of it (I was 6'3", and approx 240-ish, black belt, weightlifter, yadda, yadda).

Look over my shoulder, and here come his friends. Oh, crap, thinks I. Now, in addition to being outsized, we're outnumbered. Lucky for us, they were just coming to collect their buddy and leave. As they drive away in their T-top Camero, their buddy -- the Hulk -- his head is sticking a full heads height above the T-top roof, hair on his chin blowing in the wind as he's looking back and cursing us.

I tend to think of myself as a pretty good martial artist and a pretty decent and seasoned fighter. Still, I'm pretty sure that -- if I ad to fight him alone -- I woulda gotten creamed. Guys like that hopped up on adrenaline and ccocaine...yyou just can't hit them hard enough to put them down. Poke out an eye? They'll target you with the good one, and use it to find you and put you down. Ideas like "chopping him down with leg shots" are good, but these sorts of plans have a tendency to fall apart once you add chaos and adrenaline to the mix of size and conditioning. It's a little like a life-or-death sniper shot: You get one chance, so you bettter not miss. And getting a person square on the knee where you need to, during a wiggly and mayhem-filled clash, is much harder than you might think...especially if the guy has any training, and is actively engaged in trying to bash in your head with his fists.

My advice? Get out, find a weapon as an equalizer, and keep running until you absolutely MUST stop to use it.

D.

thats what i was talking about, to much,to little,to late, oh, and what kind of man is he to have trained in the martial arts and act that way??,but it don't matter, you must always have a game plan, and a back up.

 

[JTKenpo]

When you say big, I suppose you mean ginormous kinda like lesner. I was reading thinking take out the knee.....and reading, yeah take out the eyes and groin too....and reading....then came stickarts post run like hell....thats priceless. I like it!!

 

[seasoned]

All of this makes the argument for learning and training to kick low.

Looks that way too me also. Nice in put.

 

[MJS]

Thanks for your input everyone. To answer a question from JT, yes, I was basing this thread along someone the size of Lesnar. After reading the post by Doc Dave, I can't help but to think that changing our response is necessary. I don't think it has anything to do with losing mentally, but instead kicking up the survival mode a bit. I mean, while its nice to say we would stick to the traditional Kenpo tactics, I can't help but think that we'd have to change something.

We're all going to have different ways of training, but for myself, I don't like to assume that what we're training in is going to be a one size fits all package. While I could kick someone in the head who stands 5'2, trying that against someone who is 6'5 would be suicide.

So, to answer my own question, aiming for vitals is something I'd do. And despite the consequences, if it meant picking up a weapon, I"d do so.

 

[seasoned]

Circumstances, situations, and location have a lot to do with response. I know in NYS if you anticipate an altercation and your response is to cripple or disable someone to blindness you may have a problem. Each response should be different because as martial artist we have many options at out disposal. 12 midnight till 3am it is life or death so anything goes, but high noon with many witnesses I will give the benefit of doubt. Generally if I offend someone I will be the first to say I am sorry, this definitely helps when witnesses are involved. When all else fails, and justification is on your side then do what you have to do, or what your mind conditioned reflexes will allow.

 

[MJS]

Hmm..after reading some replies here, and then my OP, I don't think I was as clear as I should've been. Let us assume that the running, the talking, and all of the other stuff that we do, pre-fight, has been done, to no avail. We are forced to fight.

To expand a bit more, I was originally looking at just how we'd apply our art, without a weapon, however, the weapon may be the only saving grace if things are going that bad. I think that in a situation like I describe, dirty fighting is the way to go. And yes, again, I know that doing an eye shot is frowned upon by the courts, having others witness whats going on may work for or against you. I do feel that at times, we could be afraid to do something because we may find ourselves with a few headaches, but if what we're doing isnt having any effect, then we're going to have to up our actions, regardless of what others may think.