Fighting a boxer in Wing Chun

[Isaiah90]

Just a few thoughts on fighting a boxer. Wing Chun is great with hand strikes but an experienced boxer has more power and speed with his punches. Similar to Wing Chun, the boxer's power comes from the ground in a stable stance. The difference is that the boxer has no defense for his legs. Wing Chun kicks are essential to keep your distance but also to preferably break his leg joints and disrupt his stability. The boxer's power and speed is greatly reduced with an injured leg(s) making it easier for a Wing Chun practitioner to finish the fight.

Wondering if anyone else has further comments and/or tips on how to fight boxers in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

 

[Flying Crane]

How do you know a boxer has more speed and power in his punches?

 

[drop bear]

How do you know a boxer has more speed and power in his punches?

Boxing is a rule set. You can wing chun punch in a boxing match if you wanted to.

But the best boxers don't.

 

[Isaiah90]

How do you know a boxer has more speed and power in his punches?

Because they train their body to throw more weight into their punches than a Wing Chun fighter who keeps his/her body straight.

 

[KPM]

Just a few thoughts on fighting a boxer. Wing Chun is great with hand strikes but an experienced boxer has more power and speed with his punches. Similar to Wing Chun, the boxer's power comes from the ground in a stable stance. The difference is that the boxer has no defense for his legs. Wing Chun kicks are essential to keep your distance but also to preferably break his leg joints and disrupt his stability. The boxer's power and speed is greatly reduced with an injured leg(s) making it easier for a Wing Chun practitioner to finish the fight.

Wondering if anyone else has further comments and/or tips on how to fight boxers in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

Compared to something like Thai Boxing, Wing Chun's kicks are not nearly as strong and are not delivered from as safe a distance. If you are close enough to use a Wing Chun kick, you are close enough to get blasted by a good boxer. So that's a risky thing to try as your primary strategy! Boxer's have fast and powerful combinations of punches. There is no way to block something like that, or to try and match it in any kind of exchange. Your best hope with a boxer is to get very close very quickly, smother his punches and trap his arms so he can't throw combo's, use elbow strikes of your own to stay as close as possible, and break his base/balance to put him on the ground. If you let him push off at arm's distance you are in trouble! The strategy is to try your best to control him while hitting him, smother his punches, and break his balance.

 

[geezer]

I'd second what KPM said. Boxers are fast and powerful, plus they rotate and throw their shoulder into their punches. Their punches extend farther and they can reach out to a longer range than a squared-up WC fighter. So if you are going to use low kicks, as the OP suggested, I wouldn't recommend using them to maintain range, but rather to use a few leg shots as a distraction to get the boxer to drop his guard and give you an opening to close in tight. I do best against punchers getting in tight and sticking, smothering, and using elbows. In our VT we do a lot of elbow distance work in chi-sau which is very useful training for this range.

Now the problem with this approach is that, although it can help against a striker, it brings you into the grappler's zone. If your opponent knows both, you better be very good!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Now the problem with this approach is that, although it can help against a striker, it brings you into the grappler's zone. If your opponent knows both, you better be very good!

My rule of thumb: If their striking game is better than your striking game, you grapple. If their grappling game is better than your grappling game, you strike. If they've got you beat in both, you're f'ed.

 

[geezer]

My rule of thumb: If their striking game is better than your striking game, you grapple. If their grappling game is better than your grappling game, you strike. If they've got you beat in both, you're f'ed.

...well there's always stuff like Escrima.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

...well there's always stuff like Escrima.

If I have a knife/stick/weapon, I hope that I never found out who is the better grappler, because by that time I've already done something seriously wrong.

 

[Buka]

Sometimes people will picture the Wing Chun fighter in a boxing ring. Sometimes people will picture the boxer guy doing Wing Chun.
Neither makes sense, of course, it's just two guys fighting. You know what happens when two guys fight, sometimes one guy wins or sometimes the other guy wins - or sometimes they just smack the crap out of each other and nobody wins. Until they go home and tell their friends the story.

 

[drop bear]

I'd second what KPM said. Boxers are fast and powerful, plus they rotate and throw their shoulder into their punches. Their punches extend farther and they can reach out to a longer range than a squared-up WC fighter. So if you are going to use low kicks, as the OP suggested, I wouldn't recommend using them to maintain range, but rather to use a few leg shots as a distraction to get the boxer to drop his guard and give you an opening to close in tight. I do best against punchers getting in tight and sticking, smothering, and using elbows. In our VT we do a lot of elbow distance work in chi-sau which is very useful training for this range.

Now the problem with this approach is that, although it can help against a striker, it brings you into the grappler's zone. If your opponent knows both, you better be very good!

You couldn't john jones them. And pick them off with low kicks?

 

[KPM]

You couldn't john jones them. And pick them off with low kicks?

Wing Chun doesn't really teach those types of kicks...ie...the longer, stretched out variety. Wing Chun kicks are really intended to be used once you have closed with the opponent and have his upper tools occupied so he doesn't notice the kick that suddenly breaks his base and his balance and makes him easier to control and manipulate. They can certainly be used as a feint as Steve mentioned. But you aren't going to "pick someone off" with them. They can also be used with the strategy I described....after you have smothered his attacks, gained control, and put him off balance, a well-placed kick can not only send him to the ground, but make it difficult for him to get back up!

 

[wckf92]

Because they train their body to throw more weight into their punches than a Wing Chun fighter who keeps his/her body straight.

I would say, from your viewpoint on this, that you are relatively new to WC(?)

 

[wckf92]

You couldn't john jones them. And pick them off with low kicks?

Yes, you could. WC has long range and short range (long bridge and short bridge concepts) for both upper and lower limbs. These "letters" are free to use to help mitigating a threat...just most don't, for some reason. But yes, low kick "letters" combined with long bridge "letters" create what you are talking about.

 

[Isaiah90]

Compared to something like Thai Boxing, Wing Chun's kicks are not nearly as strong and are not delivered from as safe a distance. If you are close enough to use a Wing Chun kick, you are close enough to get blasted by a good boxer. So that's a risky thing to try as your primary strategy! Boxer's have fast and powerful combinations of punches. There is no way to block something like that, or to try and match it in any kind of exchange. Your best hope with a boxer is to get very close very quickly, smother his punches and trap his arms so he can't throw combo's, use elbow strikes of your own to stay as close as possible, and break his base/balance to put him on the ground. If you let him push off at arm's distance you are in trouble! The strategy is to try your best to control him while hitting him, smother his punches, and break his balance.

Yea i was referring to standard hand-to-hand boxing but kickboxing and Thai Boxing are completely different lol.

 

[Flying Crane]

Because they train their body to throw more weight into their punches than a Wing Chun fighter who keeps his/her body straight.

You know this for a fact? You've trained to a high level with good instructors in both methods, and can make such a judgment with real authority? Really? You've systematically compared high numbers of boxers, of all levels, with high numbers of wing chun people, of all levels, and you've analyzed the results for statistical significance, while controlling for factors that might impact the data, like natural ability and athleticism? Really?

Or, gee, maybe it depends on the person doing it...

 

[Isaiah90]

I'd second what KPM said. Boxers are fast and powerful, plus they rotate and throw their shoulder into their punches. Their punches extend farther and they can reach out to a longer range than a squared-up WC fighter. So if you are going to use low kicks, as the OP suggested, I wouldn't recommend using them to maintain range, but rather to use a few leg shots as a distraction to get the boxer to drop his guard and give you an opening to close in tight. I do best against punchers getting in tight and sticking, smothering, and using elbows. In our VT we do a lot of elbow distance work in chi-sau which is very useful training for this range.

Now the problem with this approach is that, although it can help against a striker, it brings you into the grappler's zone. If your opponent knows both, you better be very good!

I think doing that is risky though. Facing a boxer with experience in grappling and superior strength, you run the risk of breaking the Wing Chun principle of using minimum brute force along with being thrown off balance. Although i agree with you on the elbows but i would use elbow-hand techniques in defense (if necessary) and attacking at the boxer's blindside when i close in. If possible, i'd use them to break the boxer's arms.

 

[KPM]

You know this for a fact? You've trained to a high level with good instructors in both methods, and can make such a judgment with real authority? Really? You've systematically compared high numbers of boxers, of all levels, with high numbers of wing chun people, of all levels, and you've analyzed the results for statistical significance, while controlling for factors that might impact the data, like natural ability and athleticism? Really?

Or, gee, maybe it depends on the person doing it...

Don't be too harsh! I understood what he meant. The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in western boxing is to pivot at the waist and roll the shoulder forward and arch the mid-back a bit. This does "put more weight behind it." The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in Wing Chun is to keep the shoulders back and the spine straight and pivot with the stance. So while, there will be factors that will make a difference...like whether the Wing Chun is stepping in and the boxer isn't....in general terms is statement was fairly accurate.

 

[Isaiah90]

Don't be too harsh! I understood what he meant. The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in western boxing is to pivot at the waist and roll the shoulder forward and arch the mid-back a bit. This does "put more weight behind it." The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in Wing Chun is to keep the shoulders back and the spine straight and pivot with the stance. So while, there will be factors that will make a difference...like whether the Wing Chun is stepping in and the boxer isn't....in general terms is statement was fairly accurate.

Yea that's what i meant lol. Wing Chun emphasizes (or at least should) a balance between arms and legs for attack/defense. If you sacrifice balance over power, you can leave a huge weak point that your opponent can exploit. That's why humility is so important in Wing Chun because your better equipped in seeing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Flying Crane]

Don't be too harsh! I understood what he meant. The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in western boxing is to pivot at the waist and roll the shoulder forward and arch the mid-back a bit. This does "put more weight behind it." The body mechanic for the upper body when generating power in Wing Chun is to keep the shoulders back and the spine straight and pivot with the stance. So while, there will be factors that will make a difference...like whether the Wing Chun is stepping in and the boxer isn't....in general terms is statement was fairly accurate.

No, they are simply two different methodologies, both with good proponents, both with poor proponents, both with advantages and disadvantages. It's not possible to make a generalization like that. It makes for a very poor discussion because the initial premise is extremely flawed.