Fight or Flight?

[MJS]

Looking through some recent threads, I see that there are many different lines of thinking, especially when it comes to Self Defense. This of course is a good thing, as it adds variety to the mix. :ultracool

We have some that think its good to defend yourself and fight for what you feel is right and another group that feels that its best to comply and leave the situation minus your car or wallet, but with your life.

My question is: Why do you choose the route that you do? Do you feel that if you fight for your belongings that the results will not be in your favor? Do you feel that if you hand over your car, money, etc., that you'll be sure to walk away?

Lets keep this civil. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. After all, its your choice. I'm just looking to discuss each viewpoint.

Mike

 

[Shaderon]

Me I'd avoid confrontation if I can, I'd run or cower out of the way and play "timid female" or back off, comply... whatever was being demanded, but if they actually grabbed me and tried to hurt me.... they'd find a snarling animal who fought back.

If I can avoid getting hurt I will, but if they are intent on hurting me I'll fight back.

 

[Bigshadow]

Criminals by their very nature are untrustworthy. I will not trust my life to their words. For me the gut check determines alot of how I handle things, however, I am not of the school to just trust trust that they won't hurt me if I give them what they want. It really isn't about the material goods, it is about entrusting one's life to someone who has proven by their very actions that they are untrustworthy.

If they put such little value on my life, am I supposed to trust that they will find it important enough?

 

[Andrew Green]

I agree with BigShadow, theory about one would react is kind of empty. A lot of it is going to depend on your gut response at the time.

 

[MJS]

For myself, I am pretty much the same as BigShadow. I'm sorry, but I work hard for what I have. Why should I give it up or trust some punk? I think that going with the gut feeling is a good thing. If its someone asking for some change, I can't justify hitting the person, when walking away would solve the problem. However, if the person follows me or touches me, then they IMO just escalated the situation. I still feel that our actions should be based on whats happening. For the street person that asked for change and now proceeds to follow me and grabs me, I can't justify breaking the guys arm. Now if he grabs me, spins me around and has a knife in the other hand...well, thats different.

 

[Shaderon]

For myself, I am pretty much the same as BigShadow. I'm sorry, but I work hard for what I have. Why should I give it up or trust some punk? I think that going with the gut feeling is a good thing. If its someone asking for some change, I can't justify hitting the person, when walking away would solve the problem. However, if the person follows me or touches me, then they IMO just escalated the situation. I still feel that our actions should be based on whats happening. For the street person that asked for change and now proceeds to follow me and grabs me, I can't justify breaking the guys arm. Now if he grabs me, spins me around and has a knife in the other hand...well, thats different.

Yes very true, that's a lot different. And I can't deny that gut feeling would play a huge part of my first reaction.

 

[hemi]

Yes I am the same way, I work hard for the few things I have. I’m not giving them to some lazy lowlife with out opening a can of worms. I will try and avoid confrontation but some people just don’t take a hint and well they will get all that’s coming to them.

 

[LawDog]

To fight or not depends on,
* how much value one puts on the focus of attention,(property, life etc.)
* instincts, body & voice language and surroundings have to both be analyzed and evaluated.
* most important - who around you could become part of any collateral damage.
All of this has to be done within the first moments of a confrontation and without letting your opponent read youy body language, voice, etc.
It's not easy.

 

[BallistikMike]

Back in 1997 my wife and I were down in our basement watching TV on New Years Eve and our 1yr old was sleeping upstairs on our 2nd floor.

Out of the blue someone started to kick in our front door which put them between me and my baby.

I will never forget my wife looking at me in horror and an mouthing "What the hell?"

I dont even remember moving until I was just coming to the top of the stairs and I grabbed a paint brush ... yes a paint brush one of those big wooden handle Huckleberry Fin paint brushes LOL!

I ran towards the door which was still intact and sound with this paint brush that I was going to crush whom ever's skull was coming in my home.

Turn's out it was just a neighbor's fireworks (morter bombs) going off righ in front of the house and it just sounded like someone kicking in my door.

It was definitely a fight response, there was no retreat because of the baby. I always wonder what would have happened if it was just me and my wife?

My wife jokes to this day about my super weapon "Paintbrush", that sucker extended about 2 inches below my fist and was hard pointed wood. Im telling ya if it was real that dude or dudes would have had huge dents in their skulls as they came through.

 

[zDom]

Ever heard the analogy about people being either sheep, wolves or sheepdogs?

I consider myself to be a sheepdog who is very often mistaken for a sheep.

So in cases of robbery attempts or assaults (especially assaults on my family, friends, someone weak and meek or the elderly), I feel responding with fight (and hopefully succesfully turning them over to local law enforcement officer) instead of flight may discourage wolfish attempts by the criminal in the future, in that they may begin to distrust their ability to pick suitable victims.

But if someone is just barking, so to speak? Nah. I walk away. It just isn't worth the trouble. They can strut, puff their chest and call me all sorts of foul names. No harm done. My self esteem isn't so feeble that I can't endure an attackon my pride

When it comes to robbery attempts with weapons, especially firearms? Discretion is the better part of valour. I will comply to the point where I feel that I will get hurt/killed even with compliance.

 

[morph4me]

Criminals by their very nature are untrustworthy. I will not trust my life to their words. For me the gut check determines alot of how I handle things, however, I am not of the school to just trust trust that they won't hurt me if I give them what they want. It really isn't about the material goods, it is about entrusting one's life to someone who has proven by their very actions that they are untrustworthy.

If they put such little value on my life, am I supposed to trust that they will find it important enough?

I agree, a gut check is definetly called for and I always listen to my gut.

My problem is that I realize that some things are worth fighting for and other things aren't, and while the amount of money that I usually carry isn't worth fighting over, my right to walk down the street unmolested by some bottom feeder is definetly worth fighting for.

 

[Nomad]

My first reaction would be to comply, but would use the time this bought me to more fully assess the situation.

Is there a weapon in play? Are my wife and/or kids with me? How many people are confronting me? What are my escape routes and what can I use to my advantage? All of these change the situation completely.

If he wants my wallet, he can have it, but if I'm by myself I'll be throwing it past him and running... he can choose between the $2-$5 cash I usually have on me and chasing me. If he wants my car, he'd better have a compelling reason to expect me to give it to him. If he wants my IPOD... hmmmm... not sure on that one

If he tries to harm me or my family, it will quickly become a 'him or me' situation... and I fully intend for it to be him.

Complying can stop a bad situation from getting much worse, but this is where the gutcheck mentioned comes in. If, for example, he tries to get you to get in the car with him, it is now (IMO) a life or death struggle, since this is frequently known as a "secondary crime scene".

 

[Flying Crane]

I usually look for the nearest escape route, and then give a demonstration of the superiority of my Nike-jutsu.

It seems like there is usually more than one person which puts me at an immediate disadvantage, and you just never know who is carying a knife, gun, or sock full of ballbearings. I don't need the kind of permanent injuries/death that these kinds of things can dish out. It ain't worth it. My fighting abilities are really for when there is no other escape.

So far, I have never had an incident where this has not been a good, viable option. And neither have I ever given over my wallet, or other valuables.

 

[KenpoTex]

Criminals by their very nature are untrustworthy. I will not trust my life to their words. For me the gut check determines alot of how I handle things, however, I am not of the school to just trust trust that they won't hurt me if I give them what they want. It really isn't about the material goods, it is about entrusting one's life to someone who has proven by their very actions that they are untrustworthy.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In addition to the reasons you provided, the reason that [in most cases] I'm not a big fan of submitting is that you are allowing the criminal to have control of the situation. I'd rather take the initiative and deal with the problem so I can leave safely.

 

[Kacey]

Here's what I teach my TKD students:

1st rule: Don't get into a situation where you need to defend yourself.

2nd rule: If the 1st rule doesn't work - run like hell

3rd rule: If the 2nd rule isn't possible, do whatever is necessary to get loose; return to 2nd rule.

Corollary: Never, ever, get into a vehicle with a perpetrator.

The above rules are guidelines - as others have stated, the exact response to any situation is dependent on a wide range of variables. There is no way to give one answer that will cover every possible contingency; the key is to be aware of what is going on around you, and to think quickly.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Flight if possible. My reasoning is simple. If he/she/they will leave by getting my wallet, then they can have it. I don't feel like risking my life for 8 dollars and my drivers permit. If it is clear that they will hurt me, I'm gonna let training kick in. Which is anouther part of my reasoning behind flight over fight. I've trained myself to go for the knock out or the tap out. Meaning, if I have to fight I'm going to be out for blood. I'm normally a none-confrontational person, but my freinds know that making me a mad is far from an intelligent thing to do.
good enough?