Female instuctor....... For them or against them?

[Fing Fang Foom]

A new "guy" was at the DoJang today. He was trying to tell one of the instructors he already had 2 years experience, and was just looking for "new training idea's"....

Among some of the "fella's" though, he said his previous DoJang just hired a female BB instructor, and to him; "that is a joke".

Is this a common thought amongst "male" TKD students???

 

[MA-Caver]

The guy who thought it was "a joke" is a narrow minded asswipe pig.

If the woman knows the same stuff as a qualified male instructor and she has the same qualifications as a male instructor... just what IS the difference? She got boobs and he don't?

Pretty stupid reason to think it's "a joke".

Tell ya what... challenge the guy to spar with a lady that is a couple of belts above him or at least a brown belt... then let him joke about it.

 

[Thesemindz]

Only the ignorant ones.


-Rob

 

[Fing Fang Foom]

First of all, I agree with the above comments.

Outside today while Lil' Tiger was doing her youth class I listened to this guy and felt like I was back in the 50's.

A few of his points were:

"the NFL don't have woman, All professional sports have seperate league for men and woman; Thats because men are better at sports regardless of what sport it is. MA is no different".

What was even more shocking, is that a couple of the guys (both were parents of kids, not students) happily agreed with him...

 

[mango.man]

My daughter was quick to point out, during her recent trip to compete in Russia, that in Russia, there is a very clear line drawn between the male and the female competitors and the level of respect and just the simple acknowledgement of existence, or lack thereof, that the different sexes are afforded not just in competition but in daily training.

Not that I agree with it, just many cultures have a different philosophy about these things.

I am concerned with MA-Carver's statement though that perhaps this guy should spar a woman that is a couple of belts higher than he is. Do you not think that a woman can or should spar with men of the same belt?

A statement like that almost goes back to the child black belt debate. A child should not get a black belt unless/until he/she can do the same exact things as an adult. Well perhaps a woman should not be given a black belt (or any belt) until they can do the same things that any male black belt (or equal belt) can do?

 

[Gorilla]

I know Barb Kunkel and Arlene Limas....They are two of the best black belts that I know....For that matter they are great people...I know many great women in the Martial Arts...

I had the great good fortune to speak with them about some of the struggles of women in the Martial Arts and in sports for that matter...It is sad to hear that some people still hold such outdated opinions.

 

[d1jinx]

These idiots exist everywhere. Not just TKD... hard to believe but even today. Funny, this brought back some old memories... we had a few people come around my original school back in the day with the same attitude. My instructors were male and le fem. Anywho, some refused to take class when she taught and would leave. Long story short, most people will quit and leave over time... one stuck around got his AZZ handed to him by her during a "planned" sparring match... and he actually swallowed his pride and turned out to be a decent guy and good student.

Some people are raised jacked up... So they are jacked up... given the chance, will they change?

 

[IcemanSK]

When I was a gup student (27 years ago), there was a teen female BB. She had to prove herself outside of our dojang every time she went to a tournament...and she did well. At another dojang, my instructor was a woman. She was beautiful & a talented martial artist. Sadly, she got respect only from those she trained with. When I boxed, it was a man's world. I've trained with women who were world champion boxers who rarely got respect because they "were only women. And women's boxing is no good." I now train under the highest ranked non-Korean female the Kukkiwon has granted. She gets respect now, but suffered many years being treated as a second-class citizen in the eyes of many.

All of these women have incredible character. Many men can deal with things being hard in the gym. But fewer could deal with it being hard AND THEN being told they just flat don't belong there.

I've found that often, women are better instructors than men. Women learn the techniques well, because then usually can rely on strength. They seem to pay closer attention to details as well (in my experience).

My guess is that the OP's "friend" in the dojang today pays little attention to detail. He will only learn so much.

 

[d1jinx]

When I was a gup student (27 years ago), there was a teen female BB. She had to prove herself outside of our dojang every time she went to a tournament...and she did well. At another dojang, my instructor was a woman. She was beautiful & a talented martial artist. Sadly, she got respect only from those she trained with. When I boxed, it was a man's world. I've trained with women who were world champion boxers who rarely got respect because they "were only women. And women's boxing is no good." I now train under the highest ranked non-Korean female the Kukkiwon has granted. She gets respect now, but suffered many years being treated as a second-class citizen in the eyes of many.

All of these women have incredible character. Many men can deal with things being hard in the gym. But fewer could deal with it being hard AND THEN being told they just flat don't belong there.

I've found that often, women are better instructors than men. Women learn the techniques well, because then usually can rely on strength. They seem to pay closer attention to details as well (in my experience).

My guess is that the OP's "friend" in the dojang today pays little attention to detail. He will only learn so much.

So true and so Familiar.

 

[edudley]

Tell the simpleton to go have a child and come back and talk to us about a women being a joke that is a Black Belt.

I hate moronic simpletons that can't look past the end of their own nose....

 

[d1jinx]

I hate moronic simpletons that can't look past the end of their own nose....

Its usually hard to see past the end of your nose .... when its up your A**!!!:rofl:

well not you specificaly but you know what i mean.... their nose... thier a.....

 

[edudley]

Its usually hard to see past the end of your nose .... when its up your A**!!!:rofl:

well not you specifically but you know what i mean.... their nose... their a.....

i know what you mean :EG:

 

[MA-Caver]

I am concerned with MA-Carver's statement though that perhaps this guy should spar a woman that is a couple of belts higher than he is. Do you not think that a woman can or should spar with men of the same belt?

(respectfully... it's Caver not Carver There's only 1 R in the name :asian: )....
No, I do not have a problem with men/women sparring of the SAME belt, but if this guy is a white belt (noob) and he goes spar with woman noob chances are he probably will beat her because he has an overconfidence problem, whereas a woman is likely to be timid the first time around or even first few classes... I think a lot of instructors would be nodding at this from experience. Granted there are women out there who do not have a confidence problem but odds are most do when it comes to an intense contact activity. Once a woman has a few classes under her belt (so to speak) then her own confidence will increase... plus he doesn't think that a female INSTRUCTOR has what it takes to beat a man at (what he presumes) a man's sport/activity/whatever anyway!
Thinks only women should be with women and all that other stoopid crap.
So when he gets his *** handed to him on a plate by what he had previously thought as someone who is inferior simply based on their sex... it'll likely shut him up and help him respect whomever is conducting the class or just simply leave and take his male pig headedness elsewhere.

No, I don't think women and men should play football together because that is just too brutal of a sport. Men and women shouldn't box or wrestle ... there are advantages against the women. However in MA... it can pretty much level the playing field or at least up the odds considerably in the woman's favor ... provided the guy plays by the rules.
Out on the streets... no guy is going to play by the rules... but then again no woman SHOULD.

What is rubbing me the wrong way is the attitude of the guy (and the other males). It's passe and like Fing Fang Foom said: something out of the 1950's and even going as far back as the 1940's and 30's and all the way back to whomever came over on the boat!

 

[Bruno@MT]

I do not think women are inferior or less suited to teaching or less capable of technique.

However, if both fighters are equally skilled, then the one with the most strength and body mass will have a significant advantage. And even if the woman and the man hypothetically squaring off would have the same weight, looking at the averages, the man would have a significantly higher muscle / body fat ratio.

Additionally, female bodies have different skeletal and muscular mechanics, both through bodily function (e.g. hips that need to able to support childbirth) and through evolution from the ages where men were hunters and woman supported the community. Men's brains typically are also geared to be more powerful in the areas that a hunter would require, while for females this in not true.

Because of that, men and women have separate competitions, because to do otherwise would be grossly unfair. Men would almost invariably dominate the game, even within the same weight divisions (if they even exist) due to the fact that the average men has a significant mechanical and neurological edge on average. This is true in tennis, in the 100m dash, in weight lifting, the long jump, and hundreds of other disciplines. MA is no different. Of course there will be individual woman who are better than individual men. But on average, men would dominate.

This is not to say they can't mix though. In squash, women are allowed to compete in the mens competition, but not the other way around. This way, the individual women who are good and who have the drive to measure themselves up to the men can do so without having men dominate the women's competition. And from what I have seen (my wife plays squash and I used to play squash as well) it takes a really good female to beat a decent male player, because the decent male player will hit much harder, and generally run faster. So the only way for the female player to beat the decent male is to have a much better technique and a very good tactical understanding of the game. And that, in combination with the ability to hit and run hard, would put her far ahead in the ladies competition. In fact I used to play regularly against our number 1 female player, and it was an even match. Sometimes she'd win, sometimes I'd win. But I would not consider myself a decent player anymore, and she had a respectable ranking in the female competition. I know this is anecdotal of course, but it illustrates the point I am trying to make without offending anyone.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A new "guy" was at the DoJang today. He was trying to tell one of the instructors he already had 2 years experience, and was just looking for "new training idea's"....

Among some of the "fella's" though, he said his previous DoJang just hired a female BB instructor, and to him; "that is a joke".

Oh well. Guess he'll miss out on whatever knowledge she had to pass on to him. His loss.

Is this a common thought amongst "male" TKD students???

Not in my experience, but I've also trained in more than one place with ladies instructing and the students were pleased.

The quality of instruction should be the only consideration. I will not shortchange myself of knowledge or good instruction based on outmoded concepts of gender roles in athletics.

Daniel

 

[K-man]

I am concerned with MA-Carver's statement though that perhaps this guy should spar a woman that is a couple of belts higher than he is. Do you not think that a woman can or should spar with men of the same belt?

A statement like that almost goes back to the child black belt debate. A child should not get a black belt unless/until he/she can do the same exact things as an adult. Well perhaps a woman should not be given a black belt (or any belt) until they can do the same things that any male black belt (or equal belt) can do?

Children with BBs are an entirely different matter to adults. I have absolutely no problem with female instructors. In my early years I was privileged to to be taught by a fantastic lady. She was probably 5' 3' and actually was a member of the Australian Karate team. (I think her highest place in kata was 2nd or 3rd in the World Championships.) As long as the knowledge and ability to teach is there, what is the difference?
If you want to equate ability to fight/win with the qualification to instruct, the only instructors will be heavyweight, 6'6"+ males, probably less than 40 and everyone else goes home! Lets not forget that, unless you're training to compete, and at 60+ I have no interest in the next tournament, you are training to defend yourself against a street thug, not a trained Martial Artist, or you are learning a MA for the love of the art.
As for sparring, do you belt the crap out of everyone you spar? If a TKD BB, competing at the highest level, was to start cross-training in a karate school as a white belt, is it a requirement that the instructor can wipe him off the mat? I don't think so! There are many threads discussing the merits of sparring so we have no need to go down that track here. Suffice to say that I have basically removed sparring from our curriculum and replaced it with RBSD. Unless someone wants to compete in sports karate, I believe sparring, as most schools practise it, is counter productive, and I would pass any student that wanted to go big time down the competition track, to another school.
To teach MA you need knowledge, you need skill and you need the ability to communicate. Male or female, no difference.

 

[Twin Fist]

my instructor is a woman, and a bad ***.

that aside, the simple fact is that not many women can hit as hard as a man. Thats just a fact. Sorry. Mass matters

But that in no way keeps them from being worthy blackbelts and instructors. generally women make better teachers than men do, they tend to be more detail oriented.

 

[Steve]

Women often compete with men in BJJ. It's just a matter of getting enough athletes at a given weight and experience level together. In grappling arts, because women and men of equal weight will have different Body Fat percentages, the guy will likely be stronger. But I regularly see dudes get dominated by women, and I think it's great.

Regarding instruction, again speaking for BJJ, I have zero problems being coached by a woman.

 

[ATC]

Looks like some are comparing two different things.

Women vs. Men in fighting or sparring
and
Women vs. Men in learning and then teaching

If comparing the sexes with learning then teaching then there is no difference. Any woman is just as capable of learning then teaching as any man. You will have some good, some bad, and some OK or so so teachers with both sexes. Teaching is only the ability to learn and then pass what they have learned. All people can do that regardless of sex, age, race,...ect.

Now if you are comparing a woman vs. man in physical combat then I think there are clear advantages for a man competing against a woman. All of those advantages are clearly stated in posts by others above this one. No need to rehash what has already been stated.

So if this new student does not want to learn from a woman then that is his loss. We have three master instructors in our Dojang, one of them is a women. I hate when she teaches class by the way. Not because she is a woman but because she is so dang brutal with her training. She tends to have us do the things that hurt the most.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Looks like some are comparing two different things.

Women vs. Men in fighting or sparring
and
Women vs. Men in learning and then teaching

That pretty well covers it. People cannot see the difference between the two. I think some guys have some dumb idea that if a woman teaches them a fighting art that it inherently makes them lesser or weaker. Machismo, I guess.

A trainer is a trainer. The trainer needs to be good at cultivating their students by assessing their strengths and weaknesses, understanding what motivates them, and utilizing training methods that are well suited to the student. The trainer can see things that the student is doing, both effectively and poorly, and can direct the student to correct poor technique and to further enhance already good technique.

The qualities of a good trainer are the same, irrespective of gender.

Daniel