Family did not pay $75 annual fee, firefighters watch house burn

WC_lun

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The more I see some of the more conservative positions on this story and some others, I see a common thread, F the poor and compassion is for left wing bleeding hearts. I can respect some conservative positions even if I don't agree with them, but this Let them eat cake type of thinking just annoys me...especially those that claim to be practicing Christians. It certainly lens weight to Ghandi when he said, "I like your Christ. Not so much Christians. They aren't very Christ like."
 

jks9199

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The homeowner said he forgot to pay the fee and when the firefighters showed up, he told them he would pay whatever fee they wanted to charge, just save his house. The firefighters called the politician in charge and he told them to not fight the fire, regardless if the homeowner would pay an increased fee or not. I'm all for personal responsibility, but there is a lot to be said for morality too. Letting this man's home and belongings burn to the ground when it could have been prevented does not seem right. Nevermind that he would have paid more than $75 and now his homeowner's insurance will be picking up the tab.

I have to wonder if people who agree the house should have been left to burn would be so cavalier and cold hearted if it was thier home burning. "Oh, I forgot to pay the $75. Okay, well I guess you should let it burn then!" What is it was your family?
Show me the MORAL obligation to preserve the man's HOUSE. From what I've read on it, the fire service will respond if life is endangered. But they won't for mere property, unless you've paid. Explain how they had any obligation to respond to save the man's house...

There are lots of things that are good to do, or nice to do, or even humane to do -- but that doesn't mean that they are moral imperatives.
 

Carol

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Show me the MORAL obligation to preserve the man's HOUSE.

I think the resident of the 2nd house that caught fire can see the moral issue fairly clearly. Had the firefighters squelched the first fire before it started spreading around the neighborhood, the second home might not have burned at all, with no life at risk or no possessions damaged from smoke or water damage.

Or, preventing wildfires from sweeping the countryside that were sparked by a house fire burning unchecked. Up to last week, the very rural section of NH where I commute had a sign up saying "Fire Danger SEVERE Today" as we've been so dry. A carelessly tossed cigarette alone could spark the burning of thousands of acres.
 

Cryozombie

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Has anyone read "Jennifer Government" by Max Barry?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government
There was a scene in the beginning where a little girl was hit by a car, so a bystander called 911 to get help. The operator needed to know the girl's insurance and credit card number before she could send assistance. I read the book back in 2003 and HIGHLY recommend it.

AoG


Yes. Max has written some good books, but IMO that is one of his best, and it illustrates some of the advantages and pitfalls of a Market Anarchy very well. This whole story is an example of just that.
 

MJS

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off topic, but, damn.
I went through Army basic training with a guy whose recruiter told him he would NEVER have to touch a gun. I thought the drill sergeants were going to die of laughter.

I probably would've laughed too. LOL. Not sure where people get the idea they can take on jobs like this, and think, for one minute, they'll never be put in a risky situation.

I was just shocked by her comment, thats all. :)
 

Mark Jordan

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I don't know but what I'm thinking is that out of compassion, the firefighters should have just doused the fire and then charged the family the unpaid tax plus a penalty.
 

Ray

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The more I see some of the more conservative positions on this story and some others, I see a common thread, F the poor and compassion is for left wing bleeding hearts...
I personally believe that gov'ts exist for a reason, that the rules that are in place should be followed or changed if they don't work. That any gov't that collects taxes for a service should render that service to the citizens under the gov't (city dwellers pay the tax, they get the service...people outside the city don't pay the tax but can buy the service in advance).

I also believe in compassion and hope that you will start a fund to pay the fee for all homeowners who live close enough to be served by the fire dept, but who aren't in the city. Otherwise it's too easy to put the burden of the cost of the service on the city dwellers and the city probably can't levy taxes on those outside the city.
 

jks9199

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The city fire department that charges $75 annually to each county residence is providing fire protection on a contract basis to the unincorporated area outside the county. That contract is essentially that, if you pay your annual fee, they will respond to save your house. They'll still respond to save lives "for free" -- but not property. Here's a radical thought: if they county residents want to guarantee their own fire protection -- form their own volunteer fire companies, or demand that the county make a non-fee arrangement with the city.

It's really not that different from cities or incorporated towns that don't want to pay for their own police, so contract with the counties that surround them, incidentally.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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The homeowner said he forgot to pay the fee and when the firefighters showed up, he told them he would pay whatever fee they wanted to charge, just save his house. The firefighters called the politician in charge and he told them to not fight the fire, regardless if the homeowner would pay an increased fee or not. I'm all for personal responsibility, but there is a lot to be said for morality too. Letting this man's home and belongings burn to the ground when it could have been prevented does not seem right. Nevermind that he would have paid more than $75 and now his homeowner's insurance will be picking up the tab.

I wonder what would have happened to the firefighters that ignored the orders of their bosses who said don't do it. Should they risk their jobs for the sake of one house?

I have to wonder if people who agree the house should have been left to burn would be so cavalier and cold hearted if it was thier home burning. "Oh, I forgot to pay the $75. Okay, well I guess you should let it burn then!" What is it was your family

That's why I bought a house with a sprinkler system, use a digital camera for photos and use off-site storage, keep all of my essential document and firearms in a fireproof gun safe, and have home owners insurance to cover the rest.

I remember once when I was on a call of a family dispute where, right in front of me, an elderly lady passed out due to stress. We called the fire department to come check her out and it took 10 minutes for them to arrive (I counted).

The unit that came was literally across the street. It would have taken me less time to walk over there with her then it took for them to drive over as they did. I am under no illusions as to the response times of government employees.

The more I see some of the more conservative positions on this story and some others, I see a common thread, F the poor and compassion is for left wing bleeding hearts. I can respect some conservative positions even if I don't agree with them, but this Let them eat cake type of thinking just annoys me...especially those that claim to be practicing Christians. It certainly lens weight to Ghandi when he said, "I like your Christ. Not so much Christians. They aren't very Christ like."

I don't think that you would find many conservatives here who would actually stand by and watch the house burn. That being said, however, the onus and responsibility was on the home owner to pay the bill, not the firefighters to violate their orders from their bosses. That, I think, is what is mainly being discussed here.

You don't get to keep your car in order to go to work and provide for your family if you don't pay the car note. You don't get to keep your gas going in the winter if you don't pay your gas bill.

Personally, I would have doused the fire. To my way of thinking, what's the worst that could happen. I tell my bosses, "Oops, thought he had paid the fee. You should probably bill him for our services, the lazy rat bastard." (snicker)

Better to ask for forgiveness then beg for permission.
 
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Bruno@MT

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Personally, I would have doused the fire. To my way of thinking, what's the worst that could happen. I tell my bosses, "Oops, thought he had paid the fee. You should probably bill him for our services, the lazy rat bastard." (snicker)

Better to ask for forgiveness then beg for permission.

Huge +1. Blame it on misunderstanding.

- Excuse me boss, what was that?
- Boss we are having a very bad connection here. Do you want us to put out the fire?
- Boss? Boss?

Come on guys, let's get to work!
 

WC_lun

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Letting a man's home burn to the ground when you have the power to save it, while he begs you and offers to pay $5000 for you to save his home, because he forgot to send $75 dollars to the city...yes, in my book that is immoral. But hey, I understand, those durned poor rural people need to be taught a lesson. Let it burn!
 

CoryKS

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Letting a man's home burn to the ground when you have the power to save it, while he begs you and offers to pay $5000 for you to save his home, because he forgot to send $75 dollars to the city...yes, in my book that is immoral. But hey, I understand, those durned poor rural people need to be taught a lesson. Let it burn!

I like how every. single. time. we have these discussions in which folks take opposing views on a topic, it invariably ends up with the hoisting of the "ignorant bigot" strawman, complete with misspeled wurds. In this case, it's especially amusing since in your example them durned ignorant bigot hillbillies are apparently bigoted against, um, themselves.
 

Marginal

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In general, I agree that if there's a fee for the service and you choose not to pay then the blame rests completely on you. But to come out and put the fire out on the neighbor's house and absolutely refuse to touch the house next door? That's some cold **** right there.

Welcome to the Libertarian dream!
 

Touch Of Death

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Letting a man's home burn to the ground when you have the power to save it, while he begs you and offers to pay $5000 for you to save his home, because he forgot to send $75 dollars to the city...yes, in my book that is immoral. But hey, I understand, those durned poor rural people need to be taught a lesson. Let it burn!
I knew you would understand! LOL
 

Touch Of Death

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If you are three months late on your car insurance as they tow your wreck of a car away and you are standing outside of the insurance company waving that three hundred bucks around, you can empathize with this particular homeowner.
Sean
 

WC_lun

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I like how every. single. time. we have these discussions in which folks take opposing views on a topic, it invariably ends up with the hoisting of the "ignorant bigot" strawman, complete with misspeled wurds. In this case, it's especially amusing since in your example them durned ignorant bigot hillbillies are apparently bigoted against, um, themselves.

I did not say or imply anyone was a bigot or ignorant. If you've seen the guy talk, he is a bit of a hillbilly. So what? I like how you are saying I did say those things to throw the focus off what I did say, some people need to learn some freaking compassion.
 

Marginal

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No, but that is not the situation.
The situation we are discussing is like you literally starving to death in front of my feet, and I am standing there with a loaf of bread, saying that I'd really wanted to give you this bread, but sadly you can't afford it.

While this is technically legal (I am not arguing that) it is not really classy, no?
Heck yes it's classy.

You'd be doing him the biggest favor of his life if you refused him that bread. Tell him about bootstraps instead, and then he'll rise up on an incentive based will of iron and go earn some bread for himself.
 

CoryKS

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I did not say or imply anyone was a bigot or ignorant. If you've seen the guy talk, he is a bit of a hillbilly. So what? I like how you are saying I did say those things to throw the focus off what I did say, some people need to learn some freaking compassion.

This:

But hey, I understand, those durned poor rural people need to be taught a lesson.

insinuates that they chose not to help due to a bias against "poor rural people". It's the same tactic that the war protesters use when they talk about "shooting brown people" to suggest that anyone who supports the war does so out of racism. Don't insult us further by pretending it wasn't intentional.
 

crushing

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Heck yes it's classy.

You'd be doing him the biggest favor of his life if you refused him that bread. Tell him about bootstraps instead, and then he'll rise up on an incentive based will of iron and go earn some bread for himself.

Here in the US the progressive thing to do is to let the starving person know that there is a large team of well paid government beaurocrats that will help him. If the government doesn't provide the needed help, it's because the government doesn't have enough employees and they are losing too much money to Joe Citizen keeping too much of his paycheck.
 
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