Tillman Controversy

[Sapper6]

Former NFL player Pat Tillman's family is lashing out against the Army, saying that the military's investigations into Tillman's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan last year were a sham and that Army efforts to cover up the truth have made it harder for them to deal with their loss.

More than a year after their son was shot several times by his fellow Army Rangers on a craggy hillside near the Pakistani border, Tillman's mother and father said in interviews that they believe the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country. They say the Army's "lies" about what happened have made them suspicious, and that they are certain they will never get the full story.

‘A sign of disrespect’
"Pat had high ideals about the country; that's why he did what he did," Mary Tillman said in her first lengthy interview since her son's death. "The military let him down. The administration let him down. It was a sign of disrespect. The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting."

Tillman, a popular player for the Arizona Cardinals, gave up stardom in the National Football League after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to join the Army Rangers with his brother. After a tour in Iraq, their unit was sent to Afghanistan in spring 2004, where they were to hunt for the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Shortly after arriving in the mountains to fight, Tillman was killed in a barrage of gunfire from his own men, mistaken for the enemy as he got into position to defend them.

Immediately, the Army kept the soldiers on the ground quiet and told Tillman's family and the public that he was killed by enemy fire while storming a hill, barking orders to his fellow Rangers. After a public memorial service, at which Tillman received the Silver Star, the Army told Tillman's family what had really happened, that he had been killed by his own men.

Death marked by confusion, disarray
In separate interviews in their home town of San Jose and by telephone, Tillman's parents, who are divorced, spoke about their ordeal with the Army with simmering frustration and anger. A series of military investigations have offered differing accounts of Tillman's death. The most recent report revealed more deeply the confusion and disarray surrounding the mission he was on, and more clearly showed that the family had been kept in the dark about details of his death.

The latest investigation, written about by The Washington Post earlier this month, showed that soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed Tillman by mistake in what they believed was a firefight with enemies on a tight canyon road. The investigation also revealed that soldiers later burned Tillman's uniform and body armor.

That information was slow to make it back to the United States, the report said, and Army officials here were unaware that his death on April 22, 2004, was fratricide when they notified the family that Tillman had been shot.

Over the next 10 days, however, top-ranking Army officials — including the theater commander, Army Gen. John P. Abizaid — were told of the reports that Tillman had been killed by his own men, the investigation said. But the Army waited until a formal investigation was finished before telling the family — which was weeks after a nationally televised memorial service that honored Tillman on May 3, 2004.

‘They blew up their poster boy’
Patrick Tillman Sr., a San Jose lawyer, said he is furious about what he found in the volumes of witness statements and investigative documents the Army has given to the family. He decried what he calls a "botched homicide investigation" and blames high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.

"After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this," Patrick Tillman said. "They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy."


Army expresses ‘heartfelt sorrow’
Army spokesmen maintain that the Army has done everything it can to keep the family informed about the investigation, offering to answer relatives' questions and going back to them as investigators gathered more information.

Army officials said Friday that the Army "reaffirms its heartfelt sorrow to the Tillman family and all families who have lost loved ones during this war." Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, an Army spokesman, said the Army acts with compassion and heartfelt commitment when informing grieving families, often a painful duty.

"In the case of the death of Corporal Patrick Tillman, the Army made mistakes in reporting the circumstances of his death to the family," Brooks said. "For these, we apologize. We cannot undo those early mistakes."

Brooks said the Army has "actively and directly" informed the Tillman family regarding investigations into his death and has dedicated a team of soldiers and civilians to answering the family's questions through phone calls and personal meetings while ensuring the family "was as well informed as they could be."

‘You can never put it to rest’
Mary Tillman keeps her son's wedding album in the living room of the house where he grew up, and his Arizona State University football jersey, still dirty from the 1997 Rose Bowl game, hangs in a nearby closet. With each new version of events, her mind swirls with new theories about what really happened and why. She questions how an elite Army unit could gun down its most recognizable member at such close range. She dwells on distances and boulders and piles of documents and the words of frenzied men.

"It makes you feel like you're losing your mind in a way," she said. "You imagine things. When you don't know the truth, certain details can be blown out of proportion. The truth may be painful, but it's the truth. You start to contrive all these scenarios that could have taken place because they just kept lying. If you feel you're being lied to, you can never put it to rest."

Patrick Tillman Sr. believes he will never get the truth, and he says he is resigned to that now. But he wants everyone in the chain of command, from Tillman's direct supervisors to the one-star general who conducted the latest investigation, to face discipline for "dishonorable acts." He also said the soldiers who killed his son have not been adequately punished.

"Maybe lying's not a big deal anymore," he said. "Pat's dead, and this isn't going to bring him back. But these guys should have been held up to scrutiny, right up the chain of command, and no one has."

Not just any soldier
That their son was famous opened up the situation to problems, the Tillmans say, in part because of the devastating public relations loss his death represented for the military. Mary Tillman says the government used her son for weeks after his death, perpetuating an untrue story to capitalize on his altruism — just as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal was erupting publicly. She said she was particularly offended when President Bush offered a taped memorial message to Tillman at a Cardinals football game shortly before the presidential election last fall. She again felt as though her son was being used, something he never would have wanted.

"Every day is sort of emotional," Mary Tillman said. "It just keeps slapping me in the face. To find that he was killed in this debacle — everything that could have gone wrong did — it's so much harder to take. We should not have been subjected to all of this. This lie was to cover their image. I think there's a lot more yet that we don't even know, or they wouldn't still be covering their tails.

"If this is what happens when someone high profile dies, I can only imagine what happens with everyone else."

this happens all the time during a time of war. the only reason the public "cares" now is because of his semi-celebrity status. why should this be any different than any other FF case? don't forget Tillman was a Ranger and that has a lot of bearing on things.

 

[michaeledward]

.

 

[Tgace]

Because most people just dont know the reality of combat. Like you said these things have happened probably since the dawn of combat (why do they think coats of arms developed?). Goes hand in hand with the expectation of zero casualties, no collateral deaths, no accidental targeting by aircraft etc. While these incidents should be investigated for "lessons learned" to prevent them in the future, many people think that "investigations" should always result in punishment...

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...I thought the family was saying that they were pissed because the army'd lied to them?

It's kinda like my objection to the war in Iraq: OK, maybe we did need to go in there, but I object to having the Prez systematically lie, apparently on the theory that we're all too dumb or too unpatriotic to support actions based on the truth?

 

[Tgace]

Patrick Tillman Sr. believes he will never get the truth, and he says he is resigned to that now. But he wants everyone in the chain of command, from Tillman's direct supervisors to the one-star general who conducted the latest investigation, to face discipline for "dishonorable acts." He also said the soldiers who killed his son have not been adequately punished.

The first part I respect. The bold part...are we going to "punish" every soldier who under the stress of combat trades shots with what they believe is the enemy? As if living with the fact that you killed your comerade isnt punishment enough. If the tactic/proceedures caused the accident, use it as a lesson so other lives can be saved. Its this mentality that leads to the tendency to "cover up". If you make a mistake and know you are going to be hung for it, I can understand (not agree with..understand) the tendency to be less than forthcoming. If you know that as long as it was unintentional, you are not automatically be hung out to dry, people will be less afraid to tell what they know.

 

[arnisador]

Punishing the soldiers should be done with great deference to the "fog of war" problem. If they truly erred, however, punishment may be warranted.

Turning him into a war ad after his death is inappropriate, though.

 

[Tgace]

Punishing the soldiers should be done with great deference to the "fog of war" problem. If they truly erred, however, punishment may be warranted.

Turning him into a war ad after his death is inappropriate, though.

I would say that if there was some form of negligence or reckleness involved they should be punished. Not just an error. What if Tillmans squad was the one that took off on a wrong azmituh?

There wouldnt be enough investigators to fully investigate every incidence of this in a war....

 

[Rynocerous]

I would say that if there was some form of negligence or reckleness involved they should be punished. Not just an error. There wouldnt be enough investigators to fully investigate every incidence of this in a war....

I agree 100% with this Tgace. I had one of my comrades accidently kill one of our best friends in friendly fire. He had such a hard time dealing with this that he commited suicide. He simply acted on instinct, unfortunatley our friend made a mistake which caused him his life. Even though it wasn't his fault, he still felt strong enough to take his own life. I feel it is very depentant on the situation, and no man should be punished unless it is without a reasonable doubt that it was a reckless action.

Sincerely,

Rynocerous

 

[arnisador]

I agree. By erred, I didn't mean any possible error...I meant a preventable act of negligence, as in those due to not following procedures.

 

[Tgace]

Its just so damn easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Be off on your pace count, take the wrong azmituh. Wind up in the wrong overwatch position...too easy.

 

[Zoran]

Uh...I thought the family was saying that they were pissed because the army'd lied to them?

I find myself in the odd situation of agreeing with rmcrobertson here (most things I read of yours I tend to disagree more often than not).

The issue here is not the friendly fire, or if there was negligence. The issue is if there was lack of honesty about the situation to begin with. If true, it makes it seem that PR outways truth. Which to me shows negligence to the public you serve and is at a higher level than the combat soldier.

I don't expect the military or government to be forthcoming on everything they know. There is the matter of national security. But this case does not fall under that.

Anyways, it is completely conjecture on my part and from anyone else that will post here on that subject. Unless you were there or a part of the investigation.

 

[sgtmac_46]

If it turned out Pat Tillman was in the wrong place, and it was his mistake, would Tillman's family accept any of that? Would any of those attempting to make political hay out of the incident accept it? What would Pat Tillman want?

The fact is, the statement that the Army lied is bogus. In reality, the unit attempted to cover up what actually happened, not the US Army as a whole. By every estimate, the army didn't know about what really happened until AFTER Tillman was awarded the Silver Star, then they conducted an investigation. When it became clear what had occurred, they told the family there was a problem. That was the right time to tell them. So the "Army" didn't lie. They shared the information they had when they were sure it was accurate. To share what might have turned out to be a bogus version of events would serve no good purpose.

The only thing that concerns me is that individual Rangers weren't entirely honest from the beginning. The understanding that Tillman carried celebrity status may have influenced individual Rangers in that decision. Still, it can't be tolerated by the highest ranking person who participated in the coverup.

 

[michaeledward]

sgtmac_46 ... I think, if the timeline is re-examined, we may find it was the military that was attempting to make 'political hay' from Mr. Tillman's death. You may recall, there were quite a number of lead news items concerning Tillman's service and death; of how he gave up a promising career for service to country after 9/11. If I recall correctly, Senator John McCain participated in a televised memorial service in Arizona for Mr. Tillman.

It turns out, that serious questions about Mr. Tillman's death were known, and being quietly asked by the military during the same time period.

While I have no evidence, I would expect that all the individual Rangers were being truthful in after-action reports. I expect we would find that more senior military officials choose to leave out known facts or withhold information about specific circumstances because of Tillman's celebrity.

Did we not witness a similar type of 'political-hay-making' with the 'rescue' of Pvt. Jessica Lynch; a 2:30 am very important news conference to report a 'dramatic rescue'. It was much later we learned how the military shot live-rounds at doctors who were trying to deliver soldier Lynch to the Americans.

To accuse Mr. Tillman's familiy of attempting to make 'Political Hay' over their sons death (I remind you this thread begins with a quote from Tillman's father), is a bit disrespectful to Mr. Tillman and his service.

 

[sgtmac_46]

sgtmac_46 ... I think, if the timeline is re-examined, we may find it was the military that was attempting to make 'political hay' from Mr. Tillman's death. You may recall, there were quite a number of lead news items concerning Tillman's service and death; of how he gave up a promising career for service to country after 9/11. If I recall correctly, Senator John McCain participated in a televised memorial service in Arizona for Mr. Tillman.

It turns out, that serious questions about Mr. Tillman's death were known, and being quietly asked by the military during the same time period.

While I have no evidence, I would expect that all the individual Rangers were being truthful in after-action reports. I expect we would find that more senior military officials choose to leave out known facts or withhold information about specific circumstances because of Tillman's celebrity.

Did we not witness a similar type of 'political-hay-making' with the 'rescue' of Pvt. Jessica Lynch; a 2:30 am very important news conference to report a 'dramatic rescue'. It was much later we learned how the military shot live-rounds at doctors who were trying to deliver soldier Lynch to the Americans.

To accuse Mr. Tillman's familiy of attempting to make 'Political Hay' over their sons death (I remind you this thread begins with a quote from Tillman's father), is a bit disrespectful to Mr. Tillman and his service.

The truth is just the opposite. It was individual Rangers who were aware that Tillman was killed by friendly fire, that's why they burned Tillmans' uniform and body armor. They attempted to coverup the friendly fire incident. The US army became aware of what had occurred AFTER the silver star was given, and shortly after an investigation, notified the Tillman's.

As far as political hay is concerned, what I mean is using the situation to attack the US Army and the administration without any regard for the actual facts. That's what's attrocious. Of course the Tillman's are upset. They will continue to be upset no matter WHAT the facts are.

I respect Mr. Tillman's service, remember, it was HIS choice to be where he was, so I doubt he would suddenly turn on the military that HE chose to be a part of, especially when it's clear that the military at large did NOTHING to cover the incident up.

 

[michaeledward]

Who to believe ....

Sean Hannity & Ann Coulter

or Pat Tillman's Mom.



Apparently, the rabid right are unwilling to give up their heroic poster boy for the President's cause. Mr. Hannity and Ms. Coulter last night said that they don't believe Mrs. Tillman's statement that Pat Tillman disapproved of the Iraq war, planned to vote for John Kerry in '04, and had a scheduled meeting with Noam Chomsky.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509290001

 

[Tgace]

Another dead thread resurrected.

Michaeledward...zombiemaster.

 

[michaeledward]

That's one vote for Sean Hannity & Ann Coulter

 

[TonyM.]

R.I.P.
Tillman was an outsider. If he had been a bloodliner he'd still be alive. Rangers don't kill their own. He didn't come up through the family system.

 

[michaeledward]

The White House and the Pentagon are withholding documents from a Congressional committee investigating the death of Mr. Tillman. White House council Fred Fielding is withholding documents apparently under 'Executive Privilege'.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_House_Pentagon_hold_up_documents_0713.html

 

[michaeledward]

From the associated press

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3958728.html

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
. . .
The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.