Extraneous requirements in your school?

shihansmurf

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I seperate Instructor status from simply holding belt rank in my school. All of my instructors have to pass a written test on teaching methodology, sport science, and the principals/Concepts that we teach at the school. I encourzge them to get CPR certification, although I don't require it as I don't have the cash to pay for my students to take the training and I won't make them pay for something like that out of pocket.

Aside from that, only that they can hit the performance benchmarks that I look for at each rank, be polite in class, and adhere to the safety/training rules in the school.


Mark
 

Danny T

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What is high rank? Black belt, halfway to black? How do you equate across arts and are there restrictions on which?

Within what is normally considered high rank in the particular art. Most systems have a level once reached is considered high or advance ranked.
Does not matter which system is studied but must be different. For example; a wing chun practitioner may look at muay thai or a karate system or a ground system or maybe kali or silat. Practitioners are notified prior to signing up and all ranking requirements are posted in several key visual areas within the facility. (front lobby, the 3 training areas, and at the member information board.) As to why this requirement, it presses the member to look at other systems to understand their chosen system to a much higher level. To understand that all of the arts are good and that one is not better than the other, just different approaches and/or objectives, and to help the practitioner become a well rounded martial artist. We are a multi-martial system facility however they 'do not' have to train the different system with us. We have many who train with other facilities in the area.
 

puunui

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I recently found a nearby TKD school who requires each student to get and maintain First Aid/CPR certification and I'm aware that part of their black belt test includes an orienteering challenge. Candidates are blindfolded and taken to a remote location with minimal provisions and expected to get themselves out. I'm sure there are other things not exactly related to martial arts material per se but are good to know.

Do any of you have these requirements for rank advancement? What do you require?

For the Kukkiwon Instructor Course taught in the US, you have to have First Aid/CPR certification to obtain the Kukkiwon Instructor license.
 

Instructor

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My black belt test in Tae Kwon Do (decades ago) we had to demontrate all practical techniques, forms (hyung), and submit a ten page essay on a topic relevent to martial arts. We also had to spar two other blackbelts simultaneously, it was crazy!
 

sfs982000

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In my school as part of the instructors course the students are CPR/AED certfied. They also do many different community service activities throughout the year, but neither the CPR/AED certification or Community Service is required for attaining black belt. It's strickly performance based on the acutal material.
 

chinto

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I have a lot of Medical Knowledge. but legally I can not treat any one. ( gray aria in the law that can land you in deep trouble having been a licensed medical professional and not having the license any more in my state.) But, I would say that some of the things I have heard do not make any sense. In most states at least any more you are provably better calling 911 then trying to treat most serious things. Less legal liability and things.
 

Buka

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I would say that if you want to learn how to fight, walk into the wrong neighbourhood in your town or city. That is proper hands-on learning.

If you want to learn how to be a martial artist on the other hand, then join a MA school.

IMO the term martial artist has connotations that go beyond fighting. I think there are many schools that feel their remit as a community organisation being of benefit to those in their community goes beyond teaching fighting. Is that a bad thing do you think?

I don't think that a bad thing.

I am of the opinion that whatever requirements your instructor demands of you for rank - go do it if you want rank. I like difficult testing standards.
A friend of mine has a one month testing period for his Black Belts. It's down right nasty. It's not my cup of tea, but I respect his choice to do so. He has very good black belts because of it.

I like the idea of CPR being a requirement. I also like the idea that every student has to compete at least once - because if they're going to be teaching, and one of their students wishes to compete, they should have at least a minimal personal experience on the subject.

It's all good, though. I think most instructors want what's best for their students.
 

puunui

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Usually the only thing thats required is once you reach the green or brown belt ranks, that you start helping with some classes.

You have students help teach at green belt? What style do your practice?
 

Dirty Dog

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CPR/first aid classes are well worth taking. There are few, if any, for whom they're not a Good Thing (tm).

They also have nothing whatsoever to do with the practice of martial arts.

If students at our school wanted a CPR/first aid course, I'd be happy to teach. If it were suggested that they be required to attend, I might wonder if someone was confusing chest compressions and palm heel strikes...

I guess if CPR/First aid is required for all students, black belt candidates could be required to take an EMT course. To reach 5th Dan, maybe require them to go to med school and complete an accredited Emergency Medicine residency....
 

Bill Mattocks

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I recently found a nearby TKD school who requires each student to get and maintain First Aid/CPR certification and I'm aware that part of their black belt test includes an orienteering challenge. Candidates are blindfolded and taken to a remote location with minimal provisions and expected to get themselves out. I'm sure there are other things not exactly related to martial arts material per se but are good to know.

Do any of you have these requirements for rank advancement? What do you require?

Nothing quite so major. Sensei requires us to treat each other with courtesy and respect, and he expects brown belts, to the extent that they are able (work and life situations can intervene) to assist when called upon in the dojo. That can mean assisting the kid's class with individual instruction at a very basic level ("this is how you make an Isshin-Ryu fist, this is how you crescent step") or help clean before or after, or bring in cleaning supplies from time to time. I go in early on Monday nights and help out with the later kids class; can't make it to the earlier one. I sometimes bring in big packs of paper towels or sanitary wipes for sparring gear cleanup.

When I was last promoted (to Ni-Kyu), Sensei noted that my 'Kusanku' wasn't the best he had ever seen (to put it mildly) but that I had put in the time by being in the dojo, and I had helped out to the extent that he felt comfortable promoting me. He still expects me to get my Kusanku down right, of course. I think that's fair.
 

Bill Mattocks

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As far as iron man contests as requirements for black belt, I find it refreshing. I find it refreshing that not everyone can do it so not everyone gets a black belt. I'm tired of the "feel good" crap watering down the arts to suit political correctness. OTH, I think there are more applicable existential tests (I'm not talking about combat, either) that would satisfy my percieved requirements of a black belt. Coming from a blue belt, btw ;)

If I may say, I believe from your profile that you are 28. I am 50. I have done all my Iron Man testing, long since, and shan't be doing any more. I am fortunate, I presume, that I can continue to advance in my dojo without having to suffer a heart attack. I do not feel our dojo's requirements are 'watered down' by not requiring old men to do young men's bravado tests.
 

Tez3

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Oh My God...if you need a survival course go talk to Ray Mears or Bear Grylls...if you want to learn how to fight, join a MA school! What a joke. Just spar and realise that you're not gonna need to do CPR! If the guys gonna have a heart attack, whats he doing there in the first place? If he does, call emergency services! We are MAists, not paramedics or survivalists..

Bear Grylls cheats, he stays in hotels and flys in and out of wildernesses.


I like the idea of first aid training even for children whether it was part of grading or not. The St. John's Ambulance here reckon if people only learnt nothing more than how to put someone into the recovery position it would save many lives a year.
 

frank raud

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If the guys gonna have a heart attack, whats he doing there in the first place? If he does, call emergency services!

As I knew one black belt in what would be considered good shape who had a heart attack(and died) on the mats(with his son instructing), I find this comment lacking in common sense, amongst other things. 6 years ago, I saw my Dr on a Friday and went over the results of my physical, blood pressure fine, cholestrol levels on the low side, weight OK. On the following Monday, I had a complete blockage of the left descending ventricle(known as the widowmaker) while sitting down at my office. After 6 months I was back on the mats, and have since changed the martial art I practice to Judo, and was recently awarded my blue belt. A heart attack can happen at any time, and some people take MA classes to get or stay in shape, to lessen their chances of having a heart attack. Last week a local 15 year old hockey player collapsed and died from a cardiac arrest. what is your standard for who should be taking a class http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/y...ac+arrest+during+game+Carp/6105802/story.html
 

Bill Mattocks

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As I knew one black belt in what would be considered good shape who had a heart attack(and died) on the mats(with his son instructing), I find this comment lacking in common sense, amongst other things. 6 years ago, I saw my Dr on a Friday and went over the results of my physical, blood pressure fine, cholestrol levels on the low side, weight OK. On the following Monday, I had a complete blockage of the left descending ventricle(known as the widowmaker) while sitting down at my office. After 6 months I was back on the mats, and have since changed the martial art I practice to Judo, and was recently awarded my blue belt. A heart attack can happen at any time, and some people take MA classes to get or stay in shape, to lessen their chances of having a heart attack. Last week a local 15 year old hockey player collapsed and died from a cardiac arrest. what is your standard for who should be taking a class http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/y...ac+arrest+during+game+Carp/6105802/story.html

I agree. People die of heart attacks who are in excellent physical condition. One of the things that has always bothered me is the assumption that people who have heart attacks or lung cancer, (or get diabetes, which I have) "did it to themselves." It's just not always the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tack-watching-rugby-TV.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Five minutes later this super-fit schoolboy was dead: Last picture of international taekwondo champion, 15, who died of suspected heart attack while watching rugby match on TV with girlfriend

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10360491
Black belt dies in bout with girl, 10

Here's a gent who had the heart attack first, then earned his black belt:

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8210206.Dave_took_heart_and_made_the_grade/

WHEN Dave Owen suffered a heart attack on his 60th birthday while in a chapel of rest, the omens couldn’t have looked much worse.

And yet, after heart surgery and the further setback of a stroke, Dave has gone from being an “overweight and unfit” hospital patient to being a martial arts black belt.

I believe I even posted a story or two here on MT a couple years back, of a few karate students who suffered heart attacks while testing for black belt; in some case, it seems as if testing is less 'testing' and more 'hazing' or 'exercise until you collapse for our entertainment'.

Young men join fraternities and submit themselves to various degrees of degradation and abuse so that they can gain entrance into some club they feel is worth it to them. Older men typically have no interest in proving their manhood to anyone anymore. I fought my wars. I have nothing left to prove to anyone. Yes, I'm old and out of shape. I can get into better shape, and I'm trying, but I'm not about to go run a Triathelon or an Iron Man competition to prove I have a big schwanze. I expect my black belt test, when and if I ever test for it, to be complete, thorough, and difficult. I expect to have earned my belt and not be given it out of pity or because I've paid my fees and hung around a long time. But I also have no need or desire to put myself in the hospital to get it. It doesn't prove anything, least of all how well I know karate.
 

Tez3

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As I knew one black belt in what would be considered good shape who had a heart attack(and died) on the mats(with his son instructing), I find this comment lacking in common sense, amongst other things. 6 years ago, I saw my Dr on a Friday and went over the results of my physical, blood pressure fine, cholestrol levels on the low side, weight OK. On the following Monday, I had a complete blockage of the left descending ventricle(known as the widowmaker) while sitting down at my office. After 6 months I was back on the mats, and have since changed the martial art I practice to Judo, and was recently awarded my blue belt. A heart attack can happen at any time, and some people take MA classes to get or stay in shape, to lessen their chances of having a heart attack. Last week a local 15 year old hockey player collapsed and died from a cardiac arrest. what is your standard for who should be taking a class http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/y...ac+arrest+during+game+Carp/6105802/story.html


A well known rugby league coach here has taken leave of absence after his son died of a massive heart attack, he was 19.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-sudden-arrythmic-cardiac-death-syndrome.html

The article explains why he died, it's not something you can predict or prevent even. Quite scary.
 

Dirty Dog

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On the following Monday, I had a complete blockage of the left descending ventricle(known as the widowmaker) while sitting down at my office.

Left Anterior Descending, one of the three coronary arteries. It supplies blood to the left ventricle, which in turn pumps blood to the rest of the body. There is no such thing as a descending ventricle in the human body. :)

Sitting at your desk didn't really have anything to do with it. Angina is often triggered by exertion, but actual heart attacks are generally not. I've treated FAR more people who had a heart attack at their desks or in their sleep than those who were working out at the time.

Over the years, arteries gradually narrow, primarily due to plaque buildup. At some point, a small clot (which we all have, all the time) reaches a narrow spot and blocks it. This obstruction causes the heart attack. The closer to the root of the artery the obstruction occurs, and the longer it lasts, the more damage there will be to the heart. Since the LAD services such a large and vital area of the heart (damage to the rear of the right atrium will cause you much less long-term difficulty than the front/side walls of the left ventricle, just as an example) an obstruction high up in it is likely to prove fatal. Clots cause about 95% of all heart attacks. The rest are mostly caused by spasm of the vessle (prinzmetal angina, for example) or complete plaque obstruction.

Obviously I don't know what intervetions you personally had, but if they were able to put a stent in your LAD (the current first-line intervention) then it is a virtual certainty that your heart attack was caused by a clot being wedged into a narrowed spot. Being able to place a stent past a 100% plaque occlusion is exceptionally rare.
 

Bill Mattocks

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The article explains why he died, it's not something you can predict or prevent even. Quite scary.

I think it is very common, since most humans fear death, to put some reason things like cancer, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, or anything else that can kill you. No one wants to think "Hey, I could pop off at any moment, even if I take super-good care of myself!" So we rationalize that young people don't have heart attacks; that's for old people. And when they do have heart attacks, it's because they are big fat slobs who asked for it by not taking care of themselves. In many cases, that can be true; but not all, and it's certainly not smart to think one is immune just because one is in good shape or not fat.

I have had it up to hear with the recent news stories about TV chef Paula Deen. I'm not really a big fan of hers; that's not my kind of cooking, nor my wife's. But she is overweight and she cooks with real sugar and real butter and so on. Turns out she has Type 2 Diabetes, same as me. Now people are on her case for how she lives, what she weighs, how dare she show people how to cook with butter and sugar on TV, etc, etc. There was even an 'expose' news story when the paparazzi caught her eating a hamburger. Look, I'm overweight and I'm sure that may have contributed to me having diabetes. On the other hand, it runs in my family; all of my dad's sisters have it, and no, they're not overweight; one is even a nurse and takes great care of herself. My doctor told me that given my family history, I had about a 70% chance of getting it.

But there are still few assbags who think I gave it to myself, that they can't get it because they're not fat. Dream on, toothpick. I hope you don't get diabetes or have a heart attack, I would not wish it on you. If someone in your family gets it or dies, I hope one can be just as snotty and say "Gee, mom, I'm sorry Dad's dead, but let's face it, he deserved to die with the way he ate." Go on, dare ya. (not you, Tez)
 

Bill Mattocks

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Left Anterior Descending, one of the three coronary arteries. It supplies blood to the left ventricle, which in turn pumps blood to the rest of the body. There is no such thing as a descending ventricle in the human body. :)

Sitting at your desk didn't really have anything to do with it. Angina is often triggered by exertion, but actual heart attacks are generally not. I've treated FAR more people who had a heart attack at their desks or in their sleep than those who were working out at the time.

Over the years, arteries gradually narrow, primarily due to plaque buildup. At some point, a small clot (which we all have, all the time) reaches a narrow spot and blocks it. This obstruction causes the heart attack. The closer to the root of the artery the obstruction occurs, and the longer it lasts, the more damage there will be to the heart. Since the LAD services such a large and vital area of the heart (damage to the rear of the right atrium will cause you much less long-term difficulty than the front/side walls of the left ventricle, just as an example) an obstruction high up in it is likely to prove fatal. Clots cause about 95% of all heart attacks. The rest are mostly caused by spasm of the vessle (prinzmetal angina, for example) or complete plaque obstruction.

Obviously I don't know what intervetions you personally had, but if they were able to put a stent in your LAD (the current first-line intervention) then it is a virtual certainty that your heart attack was caused by a clot being wedged into a narrowed spot. Being able to place a stent past a 100% plaque occlusion is exceptionally rare.

How useful do you think echo-cardiograms are? I had one done last year, they said I was clear of plaque or any blockages or narrowing. My weight is high, but my BP is normal and my cholesterol is OK for 'bad' and low for 'good'. I do have a family history of heart attacks; that's what killed my dad at age 61.
 
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