Everyone seems to look down on TKD...

[asoka]

Originally posted by Shadowdean

2 years to bb in TKD? WTF....that is a sad statment on the state of the teachers in the art, NOT the art...it took me damn near 4 years to get Black, and even then that was the beginning for me.
Lets remember, that ANY system can say "you'll be a cracker jack master in x years."

Cracker Jack!!!!!!!! that's funny.Good sense of humour.


Took me 4yrs.to get my first black belt and an other 5 to get second,so to get a first degree black belt in just 2yrs for TKD or any style is pretty sad,actually it's pathetic.

In Pankration it takes a minimum of 7 yrs. to get to the first black level.

2yrs. for master!!!!!!!! what a joke.**** might as well just go buy the belt,cause it will be same thing since you can't have learnt anything in just 2yrs.well not much anyways.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by asoka




Cracker Jack!!!!!!!! that's funny.Good sense of humour.


Took me 4yrs.to get my first black belt and an other 5 to get second,so to get a first degree black belt in just 2yrs for TKD or any style is pretty sad,actually it's pathetic.

In Pankration it takes a minimum of 7 yrs. to get to the first black level.

2yrs. for master!!!!!!!! what a joke.**** might as well just go buy the belt,cause it will be same thing since you can't have learnt anything in just 2yrs.well not much anyways.

I agree most all styles train way too unrealistic for me, thats why my style is undefeatable. All the rest of you on this board will soon realize this i will crush all styles under mine. No belts,no katas .By studying all the deadly and effective moves of the Streetfighter video games i have mastered a true martial art all of your unrealistic training methods will prove worthless.
I have spent countless hours of training this art I have crushed multiple people in "sparring"matches none of them were prepared for a realistic attacker and don't worry once I have established myself I will teach to a select few so they may pass on this truly effective art.

 

[tonbo]

Lol. Noob.

Streetfighter style is a weak style. It is nothing compared to my endless training in both Virtua Fighter and Soulblade combat. I have been ruthless in my conquests of MANY more opponents, consistently, than.......*

Oh. Sorry. Heh. Video games.

Yeah, I was pretty good at pong, once. I think I even smacked Pac-Man around a little bit.

Now, I stay away from those, mostly, and concentrate on things like MMORPGs.....heheh.....

I was pretty good at the combat videos, until the main bosses would hand me my hind end on a plate. Then I would get frustrated, saying to the game system, "Yeah? Well, I'll see you in *class*, you sucka!!!". Never worked, but it made me feel better.

Peace--

"I'm pretty sure I could take my inner child in a fair fight."
--Dennis Leary

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by tonbo

Lol. Noob.

Streetfighter style is a weak style. It is nothing compared to my endless training in both Virtua Fighter and Soulblade combat. I have been ruthless in my conquests of MANY more opponents, consistently, than.......*

Oh. Sorry. Heh. Video games.

Yeah, I was pretty good at pong, once. I think I even smacked Pac-Man around a little bit.

Now, I stay away from those, mostly, and concentrate on things like MMORPGs.....heheh.....

I was pretty good at the combat videos, until the main bosses would hand me my hind end on a plate. Then I would get frustrated, saying to the game system, "Yeah? Well, I'll see you in *class*, you sucka!!!". Never worked, but it made me feel better.

Peace--

"I'm pretty sure I could take my inner child in a fair fight."
--Dennis Leary

Virtua Fighter and Soulblade is advanced training no one besides me is ready for that.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by fist of fury


Virtua Fighter and Soulblade is advanced training no one besides me is ready for that.

Once you acheive this level, you will learn that there's yet another
even more advanced style, called Killer Instict. I have mastered
this style, through endless hours of non stop training. This level
forces you to "spar" with the the most ruthless creatures of this
galaxy. I have been victorious numerous times, and even resisted
the sexual advances of the one known as Orchid.

 

[Shadowdean]

Virtua Fighter and Soulblade is advanced training no one besides me is ready for that.

Hehe, peolpe here know about VF? LOL, I thought I was the only one. Check out www.virtuafighter.com - the ultimate training dojo!

 

[Bystander]

Hmmm.... it is true that Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter are formidable arts, but nobody can get by these days just knowing one fighting style. I, too, have been practicing my own brand of mixed martial arts by combining Virtua Fighter with Tekken with Street Fighter (3 as well as the vs. series) in addition to Soul Calibur style. As a striker, my skill is unmatched, but I am weak on the ground against submissions fighters. For this, I shall invest in UFC: Throwdown in order to round out my submissions techniqes as well as teach me how to manage my stamina!

(I wonder how long before this thread gets closed due to people going off topic?)

 

[fist of fury]

Bystander you are very wise UFC smackdown is obviously the perfect way to truely round out your training, once you have spent the countless hours in training as have I we can learn from one another. Kirk kiler intsct is good but you have missed out on truely mastering video game fu if you haven't palyed killer instinct gold.should be interesting too see how long this thread will last.

 

[asoka]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

My god, welp....even I, a TKD instructor can learn something new. It totally makes sense that you would damage your knees and hips by kicking air, my question to other instructors is why the heck are you kicking air? I realise now that the majority of my injuries are from over doing it in gymnastics as I never trained to kick air and I don't teach my students to kick air. ( my knee problems are from pounding the floor for tumbling) I don't have any problem with my hips and my knee prolelms are in a different part of the knee than the area a hyper extension would damage.

Back to kicking air.....my instructor very very rarely had us kick air....95% of the training was full contact pad kicking....with a resistant object there is no hyper extension of the knee and dislocation pressure of the hip. As an instructor i think back to the few times I kicked air repeatedly in a drill and thought "boring". I always loved kicking the shileds as hard as I could and that is what my students do if they arent kicking eachother.

I apologise to anyone who does alot of air kicking training... I just don't find it very productive, fun or good for the body.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Wow!!!!!!! well said,I totally agree.It is much better to kick shield full contact than air.Hyper extending any part of your body is not only bad but is not fun.

I agree that air kicking training isn't very productive,for same reason I don't like katas,there's no contact.

 

[asoka]

Originally posted by Turner

That sucks, because kicking and punching air is the best way to develop fluidity and speed. A person that constantly kicks a sheild will develop a lot of power in their kick but not have great speed. Kicking the air develops speed but doesn't help power. There have been studies done that back this statement up, but most martial artists will know this from the times that they go on vacation for a while and only practice in the air and find that they are faster. I, personally, like to kick 60% bag and 40% air to develop both... I'll probably reduce that to 75-25, but I won't cut it out altogether. Speed is good.

I have no idea where you're training but I suggest a new instructor,because that's ********.A kicking shield and heavy bag do develop both power and speed.

I agree that kicking in the air doesn't help with power,but I do disagree that a heavy bag doesn't build speed,that's ********.I am alot quicker ever since I've been kicking heavy bags and shields on a constant basis,as well as sparring full contact too of course.

I don't know what studies you've been looking at, but whatever it is must be messed up, because there is no way that a hitting bag doesn't build speed and fluidity.

Infact fluidity is only as good as the person who does it whether on bag or not,but a bag does help for co-ordination, focus, speed,power and endurance etc.

Get your facts straight bud.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Invalidating another's response is not the type of behavior this forum seeks. Rather........ both of you have valid points for different reasons.

"Air punching and kicking" has value if you have no partners or equipment to use, as well as it does develop focus, form, balance and speed.

Heavy Bag or shield "contact work" has value to develop power and conditioning of your legs and hands in a more realistic setting (feel). Both can and should be used to effectively achieve skill.

Lets try to respect others feelings and keep the language in check.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Lets try to respect others feelings and keep the language in check.

I wish I'd said that.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by asoka

I agree that air kicking training isn't very productive,for same reason I don't like katas,there's no contact.

Why so much negativity about katas? I think it's funny how
you don't include shadow boxing in with katas. Isn't that too
hitting air? Maybe it's because you have a focused hostility?

Why don't you just at least say that you feel the arts that YOU
have studied weren't as effective as you thought, or that the
instructors you've had weren't effective? Stereotyping is
idiotic, and you're doing exactly that.

 

[Turner]

Perhaps it is BS. I do my best never to claim anything for certainty. I get a lot of ribbing because I rarely give a definate answer to questions. I just speak from my perspective and my point of view.

For the first 10 years of my training my 'heavy bag' were trees. I developed a very good understanding of how to throw a kick because a tree is a little more unforgiving than anything else I've trained with to date. By training on those trees I increased both my speed and power exponentially. One winter it snowed a great deal and made the ground was very muddy and unsafe to practice on so I was forced to train on the road where it was firm and safe. Not having anyone to hold pads for me, I trained for hours a day kicking the air and found that my speed kept increasing but when I went back to kicking the tree my power had been reduced.

Just a few months ago I purchased "The Fighters Fact Book" by Loren W. Christensen and I was interested to find that he found the same thing happening and a non-scientific study (I don't know by who) where three groups of people practiced their technique in the air, on pads and doing both. The group who did theirs only in the air increased their speed dramatically while reducing their power. The group who worked only on pads increased their power dramatically with reduction in speed. The group that practiced on both had the greatest improvements on both. Now perhaps there are speed drills that you can use with pads. I don't know them so perhaps Asoka or Damian will be kind enough to share.

When I spoke of fluidity I was referring to moving directly from a missed kick into another kick. While training in Kyokushin Karate I was able to fend them off because I was able to throw my kicks without setting my foot down. I'd move from a roundhouse kick to a cresent kick to a side kick fairly easy and with good power. Before you say that you shouldn't do this in a 'real fight' let me assure you that we only sparred full contact and the only rule was that you let up once you beat the guy until he was on the ground. Being able to throw multiple kicks is good because very few people train against or expect someone to throw two kicks at once and again, I've been able to do it in real situations (well, once when I was facing two guys at the same time) and have very positive results.

As I said before, I believe that you have to train on how to be able to deal with a miss. If you always come into contact with a bag or sheild (you might be able to do it against a speed bag or some kind of light bag, but most are too high or too small to provide any different between air and a pad) you will have to be fluid in a rebound <immediate change of directions> instead of flow <maintaining the same direction or going through and making a big circle to keep the momentum> as you move to strike from the other side.

But that is just me.... Never claimed to be an expert nor do I consider myself to be anything but a beginning student.

 

[asoka]

Originally posted by Kirk



Why so much negativity about katas? I think it's funny how
you don't include shadow boxing in with katas. Isn't that too
hitting air? Maybe it's because you have a focused hostility?

Why don't you just at least say that you feel the arts that YOU
have studied weren't as effective as you thought, or that the
instructors you've had weren't effective? Stereotyping is
idiotic, and you're doing exactly that.

That's a very good point,never thought of shadow boxing in that way though.However despite hitting air in shadow boxing it still isn't anything like katas.

In shadow boxing we move around with great technique,fluidity,speed,and power,where as with katas,there usually isn't much fluidity(i know some katas do but not many)because the stance in katas restrain students from being fluid with their kicks and punches.It's easier to hit and punch from natural stance then any other stance.Snapping out a kick from horse stance as in karate and many other arts is not that easy for many people,because it is an uncomfortable position to be kickiing from.Also often the stance do alot of damage to knees.

As far as speed,power,fluidity and proper technique is concerned,shadow boxing in kickboxing is different from punching in the air like with karate for example,because most kickboxing schools make you do shadow boxing with 2-5 lbs weights in your hand,starting off slow and then slowly increasing the speed of punches and kicks.This way we still have resistance training despite punching the air.At least that's how I was trained and how I train my students.I have seen results that way on both me and my students.

All punches and kicks should have resistance training in order to build strength as well as speed which breeds power if done properly.

Shadow boxing without weights is basically useless,because it then becomes like doing katas,simply just punching air and no resistance.Besides we do more contact then air punching in kickboxing.

 

[donald]

What is the purpose of shadowboxing? To work stamina,speed,form ? Me thinks that all of the aforementioned would be correct! If that is the case, how do the two differ? I am not a Euro style boxer, but I am a kata practioner(see EPAK), and believe the proper practice of "good" kata. Can give the practioner all of the abovementioned benefits. I know the debate rages on. Concerning the "real life" validity of kata practice, but do those who debate, do so from ignorance? I believe there are some useless katas out there, at least as far as honing ones defensive skills. Even those type of forms can be helpful in the area of stamina, can't they?

Salute in Christ,
Donald :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by donald

What is the purpose of shadowboxing? To work stamina,speed,form ? Me thinks that all of the aforementioned would be correct! If that is the case, how do the two differ? I am not a Euro style boxer, but I am a kata practioner(see EPAK), and believe the proper practice of "good" kata. Can give the practioner all of the abovementioned benefits. I know the debate rages on. Concerning the "real life" validity of kata practice, but do those who debate, do so from ignorance? I believe there are some useless katas out there, at least as far as honing ones defensive skills. Even those type of forms can be helpful in the area of stamina, can't they?

Salute in Christ,
Donald :asian:

You bet they are useful. After all, aren't the Katas what make up the "Art?" As far as stamina, you bet, plus keep in mind the body is working, and as long as that is taking place, the body continues to function, and thrive with movement. You posting is right on target:asian:

 

[asoka]

Originally posted by RCastillo



You bet they are useful. After all, aren't the Katas what make up the "Art?" As far as stamina, you bet, plus keep in mind the body is working, and as long as that is taking place, the body continues to function, and thrive with movement. You posting is right on target:asian:

Katas are what make up the art if you do traditional asian martial arts,but not if you train in non-traditional arts.In non-traditional arts the essence is the actual training of street-defense,that comes through learning teachniques put in use during sparring.Techniques that can't be used in tournaments or would make you lose on the street are not taught.I only teach what works.Of course like in any art there is always more to learn,change and advance in.

Originally martial arts was created for self-defense purpose through the study of forms but what worked then won't work now.

The essence of karate comes through kata,but it shouldn't still be like that because those are the old ways.

If you can change styles of clothes as years go by why can't the way traditional martial arts styles are done change too?If they change they wouldn't be considered traditional anymore and to change is wrong for these styles,unless you take up other styles too.

Often when you change from what I consider tradtitional to non-traditional arts your old sensei ends up treating you like crap when he sees you on street walking at least mine does anyways.

I know now that ever since I have changed to non-traditional arts I am a much better a fighter then my old sensei.

 

[Mon Mon]

Del if your friend thinks he is invunerable maybe you should invite him to a free style sparring match and see how you both do there is nothing like a reality check to wake a person up and help them to train better i know this from personal experience

 

[SMAC]

It seems an aweful shame what's happened to the reputation of taekwondo in the US. I can't say it's the same in the UK, there is a good TKD scene here generally. I think the biggest problem faced by TKD is the generation of practitioners preoccupied with the sport side of tkd. Having competed myself i know it is a hard form of competition, however it is not especially practical for self defence compared to other styles.
Remember the number of techniques is unimportant compared to your proficiency at them. What is sad is when high grades in taekwondo who can win competitions cannot efffectively and realisticly defend a punch in one-step sparring and have no concept of what they are doing wrong.
All is not lost though, eventually people either give up(no great loss to the MA world) or realise their mistakes and find better tkd or another art to study/fill in the gaps