Ever used what you know?

[Windsinger]

I'm just curious if anyone here has ever had to use TKD to defend themselves? I admit, part of this question comes from being tired of seeing people claiming TKD isn't usable in a real situation. I've seen comments ranging from "TKD kicks are all flash" to "TKD strikes are useless at close range".

Now, to me (and I admit this is coming from someone who has never been in a fight in his life), I would say it depends on the situation. I think a lot of this comes from seeing TKD practitioners losing fights in a ring, which I don't think is a reasonable assessment. Sure, kicks (especially ones like a tornado kick) require more range than a punch. However, a ring only leaves you so much room to manoeuvre yourself into good position, whereas outdoors leaves you (theoretically, at least) unlimited room.


So, am I off base on this, or is this a reasonable assessment?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, I have, and on more than one occasion and thankfully, not recently. It works quite well, provided you know how to defend yourself against a grapple.

This is also true of ring fighting; any style or system that is practiced has a limited scope. Learning how to defend againt other styles, usually by learning a bit of other styles, is vital if you're competing against a wide range of practitioners.

Back to defending one's self with TKD. Both my old and current dojang taught sweeps and takedowns as part of the class, though at my current dojang, we get the combo classes on specific days, rather than as part of every class. The SD part of our ciriculum is hapkido based, as we are also a hapkido school, and is reality based to the greatest degree possible.

TKD is effective in self defense, provided that it is accompanied by awareness, an ability to read the situation, and the ability to keep one's wits about them. Lastly, it is only effective if the practitioner is willing to actually injure the assailant. Not that they have to; escape is the top priority. But if physical altercation is unavoidable, the defender must defend against a real threat to their life, not as if they were sparring in the dojang.

My old dojang was not a KKW school. We had hardwood floors and trained with only light padding (gloves, insteps, cup, headgear, and a mouthpiece). We trained specifically to defend ourselves. When I entered my current dojang, I already had that mindset. If you are to use TKD, or any other martial art for that matter, in a self defense situation, you must be willing to seriously injure and incapacitate the attacker.

I even go far enough to say that you must be willing to use lethal force. Your attacker will not make the distinction; if they did, they wouldn't be attacking you in the first place.

And the idea that a fifteen year old punk should be treated with kid gloves must go out the window: a fifteen year old mugger is still a mugger and still armed or potentially armed, and therefore, must be treated as a real threat to life and limb. Fifteen year old gangbangers are just as deadly as their adult counterparts, moreso perhaps due to the disinclination of non-gang people to treat them as a real threat.

I don't say all of this to try to stir up the SD debate that I've seen played out ad-nauseum; only to qualify my statement regarding TKD and SD, seeing as how I'm posting it on the web for any and all to read.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

I have had to use my training more times than I like to think about. 10 years working in bars will do that to you......

TKD is as effective as you make it.

a jump spinning hook kick? you will more than likely NEVER use that on the street. And thats ok. That front kick? well, there are lots of guys out there that have pissed thier pants after I front kicked them int he bladder............

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

That front kick? well, there are lots of guys out there that have pissed thier pants after I front kicked them in the bladder............

Ouch! That'll make get their attention!

Daniel

 

[YoungMan]

Not me personally, but I've known people that have used front kicks, side kicks, judo takedowns and whatnot.
My instructor grew up in Korea after the War, and used Taekwondo frequently because of gangs.
I've come awfully close a few times.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Once in the Virgian Islands (honney moon.) Purse snatcher. Did a wrist lock. Afraid I dammaged his wrist. But that's the breaks.... ops.

Never had to belt anyone (except in high school but then we were kids who knew nothing really.)

Deaf

 

[newGuy12]

Only as a child (that is, in middle school). And it did work, and no, my life was not threatened, I was only being "picked on". The TKD shut things down okay, no one was hurt. The "attacker" -- again, not wishing to hurt me badly, they were acqainted with me -- we went to the same middle school -- they did not want any more after I got my combination in -- I cannot remember what it was, but it was hands, and it ended with a reverse (spinning) knife hand. Sure, that never works, does it? It worked just fine that time.

I could tell stories of other students in our school, but only one here, for example. One said that he was attacked with two punches. The TKD blocks are no joke, and most people are not used to this. The arms of his attacker were then bruised and pained enough to give pause. This diffused this attack.

If someone practices the TKD, then their ability to protect themselves is greatly enhanced.

I have not yet been attacked in such a way that the attacker says, "I will now bust your head". Hopefully that will never happen. But if it does, then, you must try your best to defend. But of course, its best to avoid it if you can!

 

[zDom]

Yep.

Most recent example was a big guy, about 6 foot 4 inches, 250-260.

A single punch on the philtrum dropped him. I think he was out cold upon impact, didn't wake up for something like 10 minutes (I was a bit worried ...)

Pretty sure he lost his front two upper teeth but I'm not sure about that because when he woke up, he and his buddy (who was also dealt with immediately after, but that's more of a hapkido story ) left so fast I really didn't get a chance to look him over.

Funny thing was, it didn't FEEL like a hard punch to my hand (shrug)

 

[Windsinger]

Once in the Virgian Islands (honney moon.) Purse snatcher. Did a wrist lock. Afraid I dammaged his wrist. But that's the breaks.... ops.

No pun intended? :lol:

Thanks for the replies, all. This tells me that my opinions were at least mostly right. Again, this is coming from someone with 0 fighting experience (aside from grappling with my fiancee to keep her from hurting herself - depression is a horrible thing), but you can't judge TKD's effectiveness from a few ring fights shown on the net, or from the Olympic-style competitions. That, to me, is like judging the effectiveness of Kung Fu by watching Jackie Chan flicks.

I hope (like most on these boards, I'm sure) I never have to use what I learn, but if I ever do, I have no doubt that it will be effective...

(paraphrased) provided that it is accompanied by awareness, an ability to read the situation, the ability to keep one's wits about them, and the practitioner is willing to actually injure the assailant.

 

[terryl965]

Here is the thing all arts are only *** great as they train, if you train like your life depended on it then you will fight that way. If you train like you are dead so will you fight. I have used my TKD more time then I could remember being once a bouncer so it works if you let it.

 

[zDom]

One thing to remember is that there are tigers and people who are, well, NOT tigers.

Train a tiger in martial arts and they will be even more effective.

Train somebody who ISN'T a tiger and they will ALSO be more effective than they were before training.

But will a not-tiger ever be effective against even an untrained tiger? Dunno... You must have conviction, intent, resolve and confidence behind your techniques or they are just dance moves.

And can training actually transform someone from being a not-tiger to a tiger? I think so. My little brother is an excellent example. He was very meek as a young teenager and his TKD very.. well, un-tigerish.

But somewhere along the line in his early 20s, he transformed. The boy (well, young man. He is about 30 now...) learned how to FIGHT.

Wish I could show you some "before/after" tapes.

 

[StuartA]

Considering I'm not a doorman by trade or deliberatly frequent rough areas (except the one I lived in for a number of years) I have had to defend myself and others on more occassions than IMO is actually fair for one person. This includes against weapons (knife and iron bar), multiple attackers and I even got car jacked (weird story). But I dont chat about them much cos I prefer not to think about them too much or consider the "what could have happened" senerio... I simply train so I can end them perhaps quicker or better or whatever next time if that ever comes (though I live in a nicer area now so hopefully thats less likely)!

However, I am proud of the fact that what I have taught/teach has helped protect some of my students against similar things. thats a combination of TKD, Self Protection knowledge/training and life experience I think!

Stuart

 

[PEP-REP]

I use my training ever day.. to avoid bad situations.. to be more aware of my surroundings... this is how to truely defend ones self... Not to have to fight... preventing a situation before it ever happens..

Now a few times in Highschool LOL but that doesn't really count.. and 1 time as an adult I was trying to leave a place that I new trouble was brewing the female friend I was with didn't agree we needed to leave one thing lead to another and a drunk ended up on his back wondering what just hit him lol

but again the toughest martial artist bleeds like the weekest man... being able to see trouble before it finds you is the skills needed to be a master of self defense.

Glenn

 

[newGuy12]

Train somebody who ISN'T a tiger and they will ALSO be more effective than they were before training.

If the Student will practice HARD for a long time, there are no worrys -- they can take it and give it out too. No one is invincible, but they will be able to withstand the attack much better because of the School. Plain and simple. They are no longer strangers to the give and take. That alone counts for much in my mind.

 

[Windsinger]

I use my training ever day.. to avoid bad situations.. to be more aware of my surroundings... this is how to truely defend ones self... Not to have to fight... preventing a situation before it ever happens..

An excellent point. I believe I've said this before somewhere else in the TKD forums, but I believe that 9 times out of 10 there is a way out of a situation without resorting to violence. And I consider myself very fortunate that, in 38 years on this little rock, I have yet to encounter that 10th situation. Gods willing, I never will, and my son will be blessed with the same good fortune through out his life.

 

[PEP-REP]

An excellent point. I believe I've said this before somewhere else in the TKD forums, but I believe that 9 times out of 10 there is a way out of a situation without resorting to violence. And I consider myself very fortunate that, in 38 years on this little rock, I have yet to encounter that 10th situation. Gods willing, I never will, and my son will be blessed with the same good fortune through out his life.

your right there is almost always a way out without fighting.. but you need to be aware to see the trouble coming .. and by al means not looking for the trouble.. lol

it is nice knowing that your prepared for the one time you may not be able to avoid trouble...

GLenn

 

[GlassJaw]

you can't judge TKD's effectiveness from a few ring fights shown on the net, or from the Olympic-style competitions.

Even without evidence of specific SD training, the sparring footage at least shows that well-trained TKD practitioners can move, can take a hit without panicking, are much more physically fit than most people, and have at least some concept of guarding vital areas and avoiding getting hit.

Granted, what they've trained in for TKD sparring is far less optimized for SD than it is for the ring (and almost surely even encourages some habits that would be very bad in SD). But that by no means makes their training useless to them in a personal defense situation.

Just being in shape is a major advantage that practicing TKDists have over most potential victims of physical violence. Of course, that's not limited to just martial arts. . .I imagine that swimmers, skaters, rugby players, etc. would fare pretty well, too. However, I think that much of the hand-eye coordination and reflexes that a TKDist develops from experience in the ring would also serve to their advantage in an assault.

And before someone responds with "Sparring can't possibly approach the kind of stress one experiences when they are attacked by surprise or their life is in danger.", let me just say "Yeah, no kidding!". Someone who wants or needs dedicated SD should be looking at dedicated SD programs.

I do appreciate the topic of this thread and have often wondered just how practical any parts of TKD training are for SD. I don't mean as opposed to other martial arts or defense training; I mean just plain, in and of itself, does what we learn have a history of being applied practically?

But then, what do I mean by "practical"? A self-defense technique that is so non-intuitive, awkward, and complicated that a student can't remember it readily and has to re-teach it to themselves before each testing is not gonna be a practical SD move for that student. They have to be automatic. (Am I wrong on this?)

What I've seen with many TKD curricula is that they include quite a few potentially effective SD techniques in their requirements, but they don't place much emphasis on keeping them honed continuously. Without constant rehearsal (such as one might encounter in a dedicated SD class), difficult SD techniques should not be considered practical.

If, instead, the student will be just relying on occasional reviews to keep their SD fresh, they're better off with the simpler techniques, even though they may be fundamentally less effective. I can go years without riding a bike at very little cost to my overall bike riding skill. But every summer, I find I have to re-familiarize myself with the controls of our tractor. If I had to escape from an assailant, the bike would be a more practical route than the tractor. However, Grandmaster Farmer O'Dell, who trains in Crop Kwon Do daily, could hop on the tractor in an instant and put himself several kilometers away without breaking a sweat.

Dan

 

[Manny]

Never had to use (MA skills) in street but if I have to use it I will definetively kick low and use hands for blocking and for punching in very painfull areas.

I will go for the nose/eyes/troat area with a fist or chop hand pr spear hand and will go for the testicles/tigh/knees kicks, nothing fancy but efective.

And yes a good blocking with the arms could make a lot of pain.

The only time I have to defend myself was very easy and let me tell you how it was.

I had a few years of marriage and wife and I went to our bar with two another cuoples, what we don't realize was the bar was crowded since 4 pm cause a T.V. Box fight (Julio Cesar Chavez VS Hector "Macho" Camacho) that all mexicans were waiting for years, so the people were drinking very early that evening.

It was around 11 or 12 pm when we decided to go home, but for one reason I saw one of my two budies aproaching a table, we were at the stairs going for the door, so I wonder why Ricardo went to tha table, well maybe to say hello a budy or something but what I saw was a right cross to the chin of one of the guys. There were 4 or 5 guys (drunk offcourse) that arised in a badly maner toward Ricardo su George and I ran to help Ricardo, beetwen Geroge and I did a football charge and use our bodies (and weight) to nail down the 4 guys. Tables and chairs flew plates,beers and all. The waiters came by and separate the bad gusy and asked me (they know well cause I was a regular costumer) to leave.

When we were heading to the staris again one of the drunken gus trew a glass that hit Ricardo in the shoulder and bounced crashing in the keyboards of the show man of the place, we went downstaris and days latter the owner of the bar told me the police arrived and jailed the bad guys for the messing and broken keyboard.

Ricardo punched the BG cause this drunk man grabed his wife rear.

Don't used TKD but I use my body mass to nail a couple of bad guys.


Manny

 

[GlassJaw]

Don't used TKD but I use my body mass to nail a couple of bad guys.

If not physically, how about mentally? That is, do you think your TKD training affected how you handled the situation?


Dan

 

[Shadow tkd]

Praise the lord I have not and I pray I never have to but the word hesitate is not in my vocabulary. So if I ever have to fight out side of sparring wich I love to do I would use my taekwondo to protect myself or more importanly someone else.