Enter the Dragon Tidbits

[terryl965]

In the beginning Bruce Lee is fighting anybody notice the gloves they where are like the MMA gloves of today just with a little more padding and while the fight went to the ground see how the opponet is put in a arm bar and then he taps out.
Have you really ever seen alot of great techniques of today was from the old MA movies of yesterday?

What have you notice in the MA movies of old but other people have not?
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

I think about that alot, Terry. Bruce Lee was really ahead of his time with that. In a way, I think his conception of JKD was MMA.

 

[Mcura]

When I watch old movies, I tend to think of spectacular stunt work more than anything else. Having said that, anyone remember:

1. Shogun Assassin - Lone Wolf and Cub to us manga geeks. Blood spurting, bodies flying, swords flashing 1,2,3 and a horde of villians just keel over groaning.

2. Billy Jack - you can a person's age if they can remember "I'm gonna take this right foot, and whop you on *that* side of your face ..."

3. Robin Hood - the final fight with Errol Flynn and Basil Rathbone is just thrilling, and still gives me goose pimples. You can see the maturity in swordplay from their earlier duel in "Captain Blood".

4. Scaramouche - quite possibly the longest filmed sword duel in the 20th century with Stewart Granger and Mel Ferrer. There's even a nice training sequence with Granger that looks quite plausible.

5. 36 Chambers of Shaolin - the whole film defined what training in the Shaolin Temple must have been like for me during Saturday afternoons spent watching Chop-Sockey Theater

 

[terryl965]

Yea remember that age remark really I'm not old, I mean my mind is young anyway.
Terry

 

[AceHBK]

36 Chambers of Shaolin - the whole film defined what training in the Shaolin Temple must have been like for me during Saturday afternoons spent watching Chop-Sockey Theater

Yes this movie!!
36 Chambers aka Master Killer. A instant classic that I have on my pc. Made you wanna leave your family and join a Shaolin temple.

 

[Grenadier]

Somewhat the opposite from my point of view.

At least in the old days, the flicks they showed on Kung Fu Theater / Samaurai Sunday (or whatever they called it) showcased people who had decent martial arts talent. You could really tell that the choreographers took pride in their work, and it wouldn't be unusual to see an extended fight scene, without the cameras taking their "eyes" off the actors.

If you ever get a chance, see if you can watch "The Two Champions of Shaolin" where the final fight scene was an amazingly well put together, non-stop series of action. Contrast this to today's martial arts flicks, and you'll probably be shaking your head when you see today's actors relying on a lot of camera work, changing angles, etc., to cover up for poor performances.

 

[FearlessFreep]

One thing I've become more aware of is just how many techniques are thrown that wouldn't work. Not "wouldn't work" in the 'street defense' mentality but just plain wouldn't work in that the strike was thrown with too little force to have the kind of impact that was shown on the screen.

 

[MardiGras Bandit]

My roommate rented Game of Death and a bunch of other Bruce Lee movies. Nothing pissed me off more then the BS neck break he uses to kill Kareem Abdul Jabar. It killed any fondness I might have had for Bruce Lee movies.

Now Jackie Chan's movies (not the old ones, or the new ones, but the mid 90's ones) I can get into. Any one remember the movie where he fights the black guy and the white guy on the roof of the office building?

 

[Marginal]

Yeah, Chan did that sequence in Who Am I? Drunken Master 2 has one of the best ending sequences along that vein.

Return of the Dragon features a double leg takedown followed by a Hackneyesque groin punch.

 

[Tony]

Bruce Lee was wearing Bong Sau gloves designed to grab! ALot of fights don't last as long as you see in films because in films they jsut drag them out for entertainment! Jackie Chan was criticised when he came to the west because people thought he had no power because he couldn't knock people out with one punch but to him that is easy. The action and stunts he performs is not easy at all an requires a lot of stamina and agility!

 

[Grenadier]

The action and stunts he performs is not easy at all an requires a lot of stamina and agility!

That, plus he's probably broken most of the bones in his body by now. No insurance company will cover him.

 

[AceHBK]

Yeah, Chan did that sequence in Who Am I?

That was one of Chan's best fight sequences. Excellent 2 on 1 scene. Great technique and I ended up putting a few moves into my repitoire

 

[DavidCC]

In the beginning Bruce Lee is fighting anybody notice the gloves they where are like the MMA gloves of today just with a little more padding and while the fight went to the ground see how the opponet is put in a arm bar and then he taps out.
Have you really ever seen alot of great techniques of today was from the old MA movies of yesterday?

What have you notice in the MA movies of old but other people have not?
Terry

Those are not realy much like MMA gloves.

 

[MA-Caver]

My roommate rented Game of Death and a bunch of other Bruce Lee movies. Nothing pissed me off more then the BS neck break he uses to kill Kareem Abdul Jabar. It killed any fondness I might have had for Bruce Lee movies.

Yes, I can appreciate your view point here. Lee's style of "film making" doesn't compare with today's more "entertaining" fight sequences. But IMO they weren't meant to be. With Chan's long fights and stunt work he keeps the andrenial level flowing and the "wow" factor moving. Showing a side of MA in the form of "defensive moves" and counter moves and all the while avoiding the hazards of fighting outside the dojo/ring, knowing that it's entertaining and also showcasing his agility/abilities, because he really is a very talented and skilled individual.
Lee's on the otherhand seemed to empathize his strengths in the power that a MA-ist has when used by combining strength, accuracy, movements to end the fight quickly and effectively. With the "battle with the guards" sequence in ETD he does just that; taking on multiple opponents all at once but eliminating them "one-at-a-time" as quickly as possible. With the one on one battles in Game and Return (with no beard but no less hairy Chuck Norris) he dispatches his opponents with a neck break after a prolonged fight sequence. Come to think of it he dispatches Bob Wahl by jumping on his neck and breaking it as well in ETD. As a fight choreographer finding the right end to a long fight isn'r easy, especially since both fighters had worn the other down. I think Lee also viewed the neck breaks of Kareem and Chuck's characters as the quick and honorable way to finish a "worthy" opponent. Seems wimpy by todas standards, but also consider when the film(s) were made, people have never seen such things (in the west) and there would've been a violence censor to consider as well.
Lee's films could be considered the most innovative of the MA film genre, showing what was/is possible and paving the way for choreographers like Woo-Ping and others.

Jackie Chan's movies (not the old ones, or the new ones, but the mid 90's ones) I can get into. Any one remember the movie where he fights the black guy and the white guy on the roof of the office building?

Ya, one can see the change from the atypical Chinese Opera style of the earlier films, but at least they gave him the experience needed to become one of the biggest international stars of all time. Something that Lee (as an actor) was working to achieve.
Those 90's films helped him to be sure and he was able to bring his own interpretation of fight choreography to the screen as well.