Control...

Andrew Green

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"Control," in sparring, is usually refering to the ability to hit a person who's trying to hit back without doing any damage or causing much pain.

I'll be honest and say from my point of view this seems conter productive as a primary method of fighting...

But that's beside the point, for those that practice "control" in sparring, wearing light or no gear and pulling strikes, how do you train the other side of the control equation. That being how to hit someone hard to cause damage.

This is not simply "a lack of control" as anyone who has tried it will attest too, but something that takes precission, accuracy and proper follow through, much more so then a sheild or a focus mitt as the target is moving, blocking, and hitting back.

Which of course has you now having to deal with getting punched in the face and not turning, or breaking position, not a skill many people naturally posess.
 

mantis

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to me control has to do with what happens if you miss. if you have control then your opponent cannot take advantage of your energy in case you miss.

when you are striking you are striking a point behind your opponent so your strike 'goes through' your opponent. but once you think you reached your goal point you have to stop. this way if your opponent escapes being in the middle then he or she cannot take advantage of your energy going forward. your opponent cannot 'empty' your energy
 

Kacey

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It all depends on what you mean by 'control'. From my perspective, control is being able to hit any point in space, with any technique, with full power, full speed, and exact focus (aim). Once that control is achieved, it doesn't matter whether the point is an inch from your nose, on the tip of your nose, or an inch behind it.

Do I spar with control? Yes. Can I hit a person full power, full speed, and exactly where I want? Also yes - regardless of any of the potential targets (or any other) that I choose to hit. But, in my opinion, and from my training, that doesn't mean I have to try to maim my opponent to prove it. I can take the level of contact that occurs in most open tournaments where contact is allowed, and I can control my level of contact to be appropriate to the level of the match I am in. Yes, there may be a time when I want to seriously injure someone who is, say, trying to rape me - but that doesn't mean I need to practice that way on my students. Unless you are actually trying to deliberately injure someone, then you are using control - but there are varying levels of control. Nearly anyone can be trained to hit another person as hard as possible - but it's much harder, in my opinion, to aim a full-speed, full-power strike at someone that would injure if it made contact, and stop the strike at the surface of their skin without sacrificing any of the other components.

An experiment: find someone who is trained to spar the way you describe, and set up a practice round - then see if you can match that level of control, by fighting full speed and full power, but only touching your target instead of going through it. It's much harder than it sounds. Also, because we train with that level of control, we often practice with no pads and no protective gear (okay, the guys wear cups... but since they have to wear them under their dobaks, they're generally wearing them all class anyway) - which forces people to actually block instead of relying on the hogu or other body padding to reduce the level of the strike - I've never worn a hogu in my 20 years in ITF TKD, and see no reason to start now. If I want to beat on someone, I know people who enjoy it, and we go at it - but we can also lighten it up when that's appropriate.
 
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Andrew Green

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Kacey said:
An experiment: find someone who is trained to spar the way you describe, and set up a practice round - then see if you can match that level of control, by fighting full speed and full power, but only touching your target instead of going through it. It's much harder than it sounds.

I'm not going to argue that it is a simple thing, I spent many years doing just that before going hard contact.

But on the other side I've also seen some pretty good guys that spar to "tag" and had good power on pads and targets be unable to land anything hard in wparring, or deal with getting punched in the face and have to keep going / getting hit.
 

dubljay

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Andrew Green said:
"Control," in sparring, is usually refering to the ability to hit a person who's trying to hit back without doing any damage or causing much pain.

I'll be honest and say from my point of view this seems conter productive as a primary method of fighting...

But that's beside the point, for those that practice "control" in sparring, wearing light or no gear and pulling strikes, how do you train the other side of the control equation. That being how to hit someone hard to cause damage.

This is not simply "a lack of control" as anyone who has tried it will attest too, but something that takes precission, accuracy and proper follow through, much more so then a sheild or a focus mitt as the target is moving, blocking, and hitting back.

Which of course has you now having to deal with getting punched in the face and not turning, or breaking position, not a skill many people naturally posess.


Having sparred at and near full contact control takes on a whole new meaning. Control is not a physical objective but rather a mental one. Getting blasted in the face with a well executed punch, takes control not to give up because it hurts like hell and control not to take it personally and want to injure your partner. This same kind of mental control is needed on the street. It takes a lot of control not to lock up when the fight starts, and at the same time it takes control to know when to stop. The goal of any street altercation is not in the complete destruction of your opponent, but rather enough damage to get the hell out of there.

I couldn't agree more, 'tag' sparring as I call it is counter productive when training for the street. This isn’t to say there isn't some value in it (i.e. building reflexes, learning to time your opponent ect.) but in terms of learning to control your body and mind when it's taking a beating it is pretty useless.
 

Robert Lee

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Control spars or drills Is more looked at as NON contact. One mistake that happens is pulling strikes to far away useing sloppy delivery of the striking tools. Haveing little to no power if the strike would have made contact. It may look pretty And if done right may help simulate real action. Go to any point tournament you see some very bad moves. You see kicks called at a destance that would not have made contact. you see people that get hit lightly fall on the floor and yell foul. Some kind of light contact at least should come into play from time to time or you never know how you react to being hit. Being hit changes your delivery no doupt it upsets your balance your thought your confidance. You have to train to maintain a course of action. Strikes that hit do not look so flasy as the ones pulled in the air. There is also a distance facter ther has to be coverd to make contact. And a range you use for kicks punches clinch tools then if it goes to the ground. Sure you can add light medium hard contact for the body and legs. Then pull out just before the head strike That would at least come a little closer to testing out the tools. Just breaking the distance range from no to little contact shows there is a ground difference. When past non contact fighters broke into kick boxing They found they were often in a to far away range to be effective. and would loose several of there early fights. Then when they changed to contact ranges the grew more effective. One does not have to just beat on each other the control in contact is the level of contact light brings knowledge the some thing did make contact/ Sure it may hurt just a little but it will not bring much to any harm. to you. No time to test how you fight when a real fight has began. better to test in the training to know how you might respond. To many times M/A people have had a fight on the streets only to finbd while playing at fighting the guy on the street did the fighting. And the M/A person was in a hole new world.
 

MJS

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Andrew Green said:
"Control," in sparring, is usually refering to the ability to hit a person who's trying to hit back without doing any damage or causing much pain.

I'll be honest and say from my point of view this seems conter productive as a primary method of fighting...

But that's beside the point, for those that practice "control" in sparring, wearing light or no gear and pulling strikes, how do you train the other side of the control equation. That being how to hit someone hard to cause damage.

This is not simply "a lack of control" as anyone who has tried it will attest too, but something that takes precission, accuracy and proper follow through, much more so then a sheild or a focus mitt as the target is moving, blocking, and hitting back.

Which of course has you now having to deal with getting punched in the face and not turning, or breaking position, not a skill many people naturally posess.

I think that having control is an essential part of training, regardless if you're doing a point type match or a continous MMA type match. I agree that 'pulling' shots will lead to bad habits, if that is all that is practiced. Having control when throwing a harder shot is still required, otherwise you'll have nothing but two people in the ring, swinging their arms and legs wildly, without any control.

Mike
 

HKphooey

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Andrew,

Always a great question...

I agree it should not be your only from of contact training. Practice one thing, one way, all the time and guess what?, that is how you will execute your strikes when attacked on the street.

IMO, the control issue is also something that needs to be learned. Once again, practice hitting with full force all the time, that is what you will do when confronted on the street. Maybe the excessive force was not needed in that situation, but are brains wer conditioned to go full out with lack of "control" (the control and precision of the punch, but not the power needed).

Sparring is no different than self defense techinque training. Practice light contact, slower speed and you wil not be ready for a street attack. Also, many school practice a one strike attacks for SD training (no follow up attacks, strike is left hanging there). On the street, most people so not throw one one puch and hang it there for you (no matter how fast they are moving).

Finding that happy medium is the difficult part. Train to realistically and you will not have any students (most people have jobs and families to go back home to after class :)). Train too soft and I (you) may have an injured (or worse) student on your conscious.

I have started a special training class where I put on full gear (head to toe, similar to RedMan training) and let the students beat the **** out of me. For the first few attacks they get to see what the lack of power can not do. Many of of them are surprised that a strike has no effect on me. Same thing with board breaking. Students are surprised that they can get hurt when they hit something harder than a bag.
 

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