Bruce and Chuck in the UFC

[Brian R. VanCise]

Im actually more interested in how Jon Bluming would have done. It would have been a bloodbath.

No doubt about that as he was/is a really tough individual. (mentally and physically)

 

[exile]

Mas Oyama was certainly a tough minded individual and you can see it in his lineage of Kyokushinkai Karate. Having said that I think the bull story is well a little bully if you get my meaning. Still with today's training I am sure he would be effective if he put his mind to it.

I've wondered about documentation for that story. It could be dojo folklore... maybe I'll start a little project of my own just digging around to see if one can get real documentation. The fatal punch story, though, seems to have been an actual court case, and there's a trial record. He was found innocent on grounds of self-defense, which seems fairly rational, since the witnesses all agree that the guy he hit was attempting to stab him with a wicked-looking knife...

He had the ability to deliver force and he had a ferocious attitude in combat—so yes, I'm thinking if he trained against these guys under octo conditions, he might well be a dangerous contender...

 

[Shotochem]

Im actually more interested in how Jon Bluming would have done. It would have been a bloodbath.

He was one tough SOB in his prime. I think could have easily taken Bruce or Chuck.

But thats like trying to figure out who would win Spiderman or Batman?

Santa clause or the Easter Bunny?

-Marc-

 

[Xue Sheng]

Actually if we are going the fantasy route I would rather like to see how Yang Shouhou, Yang Banhou, Chen Fake or some of the old Xingyi guys would have done.

 

[exile]

I think the bull story is well a little bully if you get my meaning.

The Bluming followup to this discussion got me looking around, and here's what I found about this story, Brian—looks like you were right on target, as usual:

(from an e-interview with Jon Bluming, one of Oyama's most prominent students)

When I was training under Oyama Sensei for several weeks, he invited Bill and I into the office upstairs. While there, he showed us a film of him fighting a bull at Tatyama prefecture in 1952. To start, it was not a bull but an ox. That is a big difference, my friend! The ox was visibly scared because oxes are kept as pets in farm country, and they let them fight each other under strict rules like sumo. As soon as they put their heads together to push each other over a certain spot in the ring and there is some blood, they stop the fight and care for their pets. To hit one that is very much used to being stroked emotionally is — in my opinion — very wrong. I love animals. Oyama Sensei never killed the ox; they did that at the slaughterhouse. But he seriously hurt the animal. The ox did not want to fight and never attempted to do anything. That’s sad. I told Sensei Draeger not to show this to Westerners because they would not like it. He looked at me and said that he [Oyama] was not completely crazy, and we had a good dinner after that. Oyama explained that this occurred at the start of kyokushin karate, and he needed the publicity stunt. He added that he would never do something like that again.

Recently, I read several times that Oyama killed many bulls in his time. The jackpot was during a meeting between England, France and Japan when some commentator told a packed stadium that Oyama had killed 28 bulls in his life. How ignorant and stupid can that be! But that’s how it all started.

(http://www.kyokushinbudokai.dk/interview_with_kancho_jon_blumin.htm; my emphasis). My estimation of Bluming went through the roof when I read that—I feel the same way about animals—and I felt better about Oyama reading that he did this only once and felt bad about it and would not do it again.

Apart from that, it's a cautionary tale. And all too familiar. The truth is, there are only a few distinct roots in the Eskimo language, Inuktitut, for snow, as a colleague of mine at UC Santa Cruz has become kind of famous for demonstrating. But in some newspaper stories, the number of distinct Inuktitut terms for snow now numbers in the hundreds. There are academic urban legends and MA urban legends and on and on... just shows you how careful you have to be in what you give credence to, eh?

BTW, the Bluming interview I've given the link to is terrific. This is a man with an excellent head on his shoulders, definitely screwed on the right way!

 

[zDom]

But thats like trying to figure out who would win Spiderman or Batman?

Santa clause or the Easter Bunny?

Pfft. Those two are EASY to figure out:

Spiderman and Santa Clause, both in the first round.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The Bluming followup to this discussion got me looking around, and here's what I found about this story, Brian—looks like you were right on target, as usual:

(from an e-interview with Jon Bluming, one of Oyama's most prominent students)

When I was training under Oyama Sensei for several weeks, he invited Bill and I into the office upstairs. While there, he showed us a film of him fighting a bull at Tatyama prefecture in 1952. To start, it was not a bull but an ox. That is a big difference, my friend! The ox was visibly scared because oxes are kept as pets in farm country, and they let them fight each other under strict rules like sumo. As soon as they put their heads together to push each other over a certain spot in the ring and there is some blood, they stop the fight and care for their pets. To hit one that is very much used to being stroked emotionally is — in my opinion — very wrong. I love animals. Oyama Sensei never killed the ox; they did that at the slaughterhouse. But he seriously hurt the animal. The ox did not want to fight and never attempted to do anything. That’s sad. I told Sensei Draeger not to show this to Westerners because they would not like it. He looked at me and said that he [Oyama] was not completely crazy, and we had a good dinner after that. Oyama explained that this occurred at the start of kyokushin karate, and he needed the publicity stunt. He added that he would never do something like that again.

Recently, I read several times that Oyama killed many bulls in his time. The jackpot was during a meeting between England, France and Japan when some commentator told a packed stadium that Oyama had killed 28 bulls in his life. How ignorant and stupid can that be! But that’s how it all started.

(http://www.kyokushinbudokai.dk/interview_with_kancho_jon_blumin.htm; my emphasis). My estimation of Bluming went through the roof when I read that—I feel the same way about animals—and I felt better about Oyama reading that he did this only once and felt bad about it and would not do it again.

Apart from that, it's a cautionary tale. And all too familiar. The truth is, there are only a few distinct roots in the Eskimo language, Inuktitut, for snow, as a colleague of mine at UC Santa Cruz has become kind of famous for demonstrating. But in some newspaper stories, the number of distinct Inuktitut terms for snow now numbers in the hundreds. There are academic urban legends and MA urban legends and on and on... just shows you how careful you have to be in what you give credence to, eh?

BTW, the Bluming interview I've given the link to is terrific. This is a man with an excellent head on his shoulders, definitely screwed on the right way!

I have some great Bluming footage that was on Discovery or TLC. He is quite a character and definately a very, very good practitioner.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

I'd be curious to see how Kempo masters would have done in mma. Guys like Prof. Chow, Ed Parker, and Adriano Emperado

 

[exile]

I have some great Bluming footage that was on Discovery or TLC. He is quite a character and definately a very, very good practitioner.

Clearly he's someone worthy of our respect.

 

[Shotochem]

I have some great Bluming footage that was on Discovery or TLC. He is quite a character and definately a very, very good practitioner.

He is definately the real deal.

No nonsense, No mystical BS what you see is what you get.:mst: