elderly selfdefense course

[aedrasteia]

I have just been informed that I will be instructing a self defense class for ladies next week. Now I have never seen this group but have been told the ages vary and that some may be using walkers. So my question is have any of you ever taught a class of elderly ladies or men that use walkers and what would you suggest for techniques? I know I will begin with a short talk on situational awareness and letting them know it is sometimes better to relinquish their belonging rather than to risk injury. After that I plan on going over some simple wrist releases but from their I am at a loss as to what to do. I realize that much may depend on exactly who shows up and what their physical abilities.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Shadowchaser

I'm glad you are willing to take this on - much good luck to you. I'll add what I've learned from these groups.

can you give some background?

* who gave you this on such short notice?? why so little time for you to prep?

* what is the 'group'? do they know each other? can someone brief you on the group members?

* how long do you have with these folks? one time only?

* where will you be - your location? Do you have the right situation for teaching people safely? floor pads? (what kind?)
support bars? Falling is a major danger here - hip fracture etc. also injuries to knees, wrists, shoulder and neck.

* will you have someone else with you?? would you be able to have a woman join you ?? - does not have to be MA.
very important to have additional person monitoring and helping with this age group.

*Overwhelmingly violence to elderly/senior women comes from known people NOT strangers:
family, partners, and care-givers and in-home helpers, even neighbors. All sad but all well-known.
Your plan for dealing with this reality?

* Some women in this group, just as is the case with every group of women, have already been
survivors of threats and/or violence. What is your plan for dealing with survivors (esp undisclosed
and unreported) in the session?

* They already know they are vulnerable and at risk. Some may be very reluctant to admit/show their fear
to a stranger - what is your plan for acknowledging/effectively using this response? How will you structure the
session to (recognize) and prevent them from being overwhelmed both emotionally and physically?

I've taught a full curriculum (4-6 weeks) for senior women in multiple locations (Illinois, Wisconsin, Florida, GA etc).
as well as shorter sessions and discussions. Its one of my favorite groups to work with and I'll be glad to offer all the suggestions I can.

Your answers to the items I've posted will help me share what I've learned and experienced. Many
thanks to you for being willing to help. with best wishes.

 

[shesulsa]

Sheldon,

Gait training, preventative and restorative exercise has already been mentioned, so I won't be redundant.

The cane is rather unforgiving, really, when you know how to use it. Here is one video (and, to the right of the video, more) on the use of a cane as a weapon in self-defense.

[yt]7GhqlRLyfo0[/yt]

A walker has legs like a chair - and if you've ever lifted a chair, "pronged" an opponent and then turned them over, a walker can be used similarly, or even to just shove them back. One thing, though, a cane or walker would likely be the first thing an attacker would take away from a potential elderly victim.

Just a couple of quick things there.

 

[jks9199]

Something to consider about using the cane or walker as a defensive tool... If it's something the person needs for balance, how much will they really be able to do with it? Similarly, if there are mobility concerns, or grip concerns, how much will they really be able to swing a cane or lift their walker? (In fact, some of those walkers are rather heavier than you might think, in order to provide stability against a person's body weight...)

 

[Buka]

As an aside - from a business point of view, older people are becoming the largest demographic group. AND the largest demographic group with the largest disposable income. They're also looking for things that help them, inspire them and excite them.

 

[tshadowchaser]

The Group is connected with the Salvation Army and I knew the course would be taught to a group of women but had not been informed of their ages till the other day. That changed my mind set on what to teach.
Much will depend on just how physicaly fit they are.

As a side note over half of this town is still without power due to the snow storm on Sat. I am hopeing that I am still able to instruct the course tonight. I'll let every one know what happens tomorrow when I am able to get back online.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Ought to be able to rig up a walker with a stun-gun device concealed in it that only goes off if it is held by someone other then the owner. So when bad guy takes the walker, they get dropped in their tracks. That would be a riot.

 

[shesulsa]

I'm really anxious to hear how this went, Sheldon. Please post an update when you can - thanks!

 

[tshadowchaser]

The event was postponed until tonight.
I do now now there will be one woman in her mid 80's and one about 78 years old. I have no idea of the ages of the others.
I'm looking forward to this and have planned a couple of things including keeping one of the students out of sight until I am half way into my introduction at which time he is going to walk into the room, lookaround then grab my bag off the floor and run out. I'll then ask everyone to discribe him. This is part of my awarness training.
Like I have stated before much will depend on what the group is able to due. I'll post tomorrow.

FYI: 3/4 of the town now has power once again. YEA

 

[aedrasteia]

The event was postponed until tonight.
I do now now there will be one woman in her mid 80's and one about 78 years old. I have no idea of the ages of the others.
I'm looking forward to this and have planned a couple of things including keeping one of the students out of sight until I am half way into my introduction at which time he is going to walk into the room, lookaround then grab my bag off the floor and run out. I'll then ask everyone to discribe him. This is part of my awarness training.
Like I have stated before much will depend on what the group is able to due. I'll post tomorrow.

FYI: 3/4 of the town now has power once again. YEA

Chaser

glad you have power!

please think carefully about your activity you described. For many elderly the limitations on them regarding 'awareness' are physical - eyesight is poor. If they can't see - what does the exercise (constructed this way) prove?? I think I can see where you want to go with this (building awareness) and I strongly support you. Setting people up in a way that unintentionally spotlights their limitations is just not effective.

And it is NOT unreasonable to be concerned that some of the women may be seriously upset by this and have a really hard time getting back on track. Others may get it - what do you plan to do if 2-3 are really upset by this??

As I posted previously, they already know they are at risk (even if they are reluctant to admit it).

And these exercises implicitly put the focus on stranger-danger. Thats not where most threats to senior women originate. Its hard for everybody to face that reality. I guess thats why 99% of MA based SD ignores reality.
How will you address this?

Here's one exercise I use: its verbal and requires the instructor to use a white board or large postable sheets and write BIG so everyone can read it:

* brainstorm and list - the 5-6 public places the women visit (you can predict these most likely: grocery shopping, doctors, church, senior
center) Ask them to Describe these places - and where they park and where they walk and go in, as thoroughly as they can. Then you ask them: What do you actively do right now to keep your self safe in these places (you post these actions BIG and with red magic marker and ask each person to add something new, if they can). When done, ask them what NEW things they see that they can add to what they already do - and ask them to write down a reminder to themselves.

You will accomplish several things with this:
* everyone gets to contribute * everyone can see that other women do useful things * they can see that other women sometimes are scared also * they can learn new actions and strategies * it isn't dumb or paranoid to take actions * You (the instructor) are actively recognizing them as valuable and able to act positively * you as the instructor recognize that they already try to do smart things to help themselves.

Every exercise-activity in a class needs to incorporate those assumptions. No woman ever comes into a class as a
'blank slate' though most instructors treat us that way.

How will they get to the class safely getting to the building, entering and exiting)?? is the class in the evening? older people tire early.

best of luck to you - please let us all know what happens.

 

[tshadowchaser]

The woman's group was at about ¼ of the size I had been told would be there due to the weather and illness in the group. Perhaps that was a good thing because questions where kept to a minimum and the discussion on any technique was also less involved.
As all good plans go the one I had in mind as part of situational awareness started off on the wrong foot because as we entered the building all of the group was standing in the hall way and got a look at us all. So instead of having one of the students wait in the hall then enter and remove a bag I was going to place in plain sight and then exist we all just went into the meeting room as a group. I started by introducing myself and each of the others individually. After which a short speech on situational awareness was given with example of what to look for and when it was a good time to cross a street or go back into a store and maybe ask for security to assist them to their automobile.
About half way into the discussion ( about 5 minutes) one of my students, who was standing beside me took off his coat and placed it on a chair in plain sight of all. I turned to him and asked him to exist the room. Once he was out of the room I asked the group to describe him. All I'll say is that they where off by a long shot. They did not describe his shirt, pants, etc. correctly. They also said he was wearing ear rings (he was not) and they missed the fact he had facial hair ( a small goatee and mustache). When asked if this was their apartment was there anything to help identify him and no one mentioned his jacket on the chair. I'm sure we will work on recondition at a later date. All agreed that they needed to ppay a little more attention to those around them and to the places they where in. The next time around I'll have them start discribing the hallway they walked through, and things in the rooms they just passed through. Becoming awear of surronding once again will take a little relearning but I think this group is up to the task and will enjoy the excersise .
I guess I should state that the group had one person in their 40's and the rest where from 70 to 85. Three had walkers and could not maneuver without them and a few needed canes without which they could not walk or stand.
Ninety percent of what we did after that was centered around seated defense. Wrist releases, arm grabs, shirt grabs where reviewed and explained. The simplest way of doing these things and the least physically demanding where what this group needed and that’s what we stayed with. Being the first time with the group I did not go into the nasty things that could be done afterward, however I did suggest that seeing as they would have been grabbed or attacked that perhaps more should be done to the perpetrator to convince him/her that anything more would not be advisable.
A few wrist locks and finger locks where shown but we did not spend much time on these as most of the group would not be able to accomplish them with out many hours of practice.
We where asked what if a person came up from behind and grabbed us so we did a few moves seated and standing again keeping every thing as simple as possible knowing that these woman would not be able to do fast spinning moves.
From what was said by the leader of the group as we departed I think they enjoyed the demonstration . I mentioned that we would like to do this on a regular basis and the leader stated she thought “this would grow into something big”.
That's about it. I know I have much to prepare for before we do another one and at least now I have an idea of what this group consists of.
Can't wait till we get to do a demo for the group of adult men and the kids group.

 

[billc]

As a long time martial artist with some teaching experience, I have to say I am surprised that I don't think I saw a single mention of firearms training for the elderly or the physically handicapped. I know your course may not cover firearms training and seems to be more in line with a traditional martial arts class, but did you mention to them that they should take the training and purchase at least a firearm for the home, and where they can, get an open or concealed carry permit. Firearms are the best martial art weapon an older person could have. Of course, if they are so old that they are running into issues of Alheimers, firearms would not be advised, but if that was the case they probably wouldn't be in your class in the first place. Firearms should really be the first step in a martial arts for self-defense curriculum. The other skills take too long to master in the short term, and lose their effectiveness as an armed attacker or multiple attackers are thrown into the equation. Throw in age, physical injuries (an already broken arm or leg from just living a life) or other physical handicaps from being in a wheel chair or just of small stature, and the empty hand or even FMA pale in comparison to the advantages of a firearm in the hands of someone trained to use it. Yes, awareness of your situation comes first and general self-defense planning, not going into dark parking lots...and the rest are a big part of it. When it comes to the physical end of self-defense, the concealed or open carry firearm should be first in peoples minds. If you are serious about surviving an encounter with a violent sociopath, that is.

 

[tshadowchaser]

For a different group firearms might have been brought into the discussion, but for this group I would have been afraid they would not have been able to handle a firearm with any safety

 

[Jenna]

The woman's group was at about ¼ of the size I had been told would be there due to the weather and illness in the group. Perhaps that was a good thing because questions where kept to a minimum and the discussion on any technique was also less involved.
As all good plans go the one I had in mind as part of situational awareness started off on the wrong foot because as we entered the building all of the group was standing in the hall way and got a look at us all. So instead of having one of the students wait in the hall then enter and remove a bag I was going to place in plain sight and then exist we all just went into the meeting room as a group. I started by introducing myself and each of the others individually. After which a short speech on situational awareness was given with example of what to look for and when it was a good time to cross a street or go back into a store and maybe ask for security to assist them to their automobile.
About half way into the discussion ( about 5 minutes) one of my students, who was standing beside me took off his coat and placed it on a chair in plain sight of all. I turned to him and asked him to exist the room. Once he was out of the room I asked the group to describe him. All I'll say is that they where off by a long shot. They did not describe his shirt, pants, etc. correctly. They also said he was wearing ear rings (he was not) and they missed the fact he had facial hair ( a small goatee and mustache). When asked if this was their apartment was there anything to help identify him and no one mentioned his jacket on the chair. I'm sure we will work on recondition at a later date. All agreed that they needed to ppay a little more attention to those around them and to the places they where in. The next time around I'll have them start discribing the hallway they walked through, and things in the rooms they just passed through. Becoming awear of surronding once again will take a little relearning but I think this group is up to the task and will enjoy the excersise .
I guess I should state that the group had one person in their 40's and the rest where from 70 to 85. Three had walkers and could not maneuver without them and a few needed canes without which they could not walk or stand.
Ninety percent of what we did after that was centered around seated defense. Wrist releases, arm grabs, shirt grabs where reviewed and explained. The simplest way of doing these things and the least physically demanding where what this group needed and that’s what we stayed with. Being the first time with the group I did not go into the nasty things that could be done afterward, however I did suggest that seeing as they would have been grabbed or attacked that perhaps more should be done to the perpetrator to convince him/her that anything more would not be advisable.
A few wrist locks and finger locks where shown but we did not spend much time on these as most of the group would not be able to accomplish them with out many hours of practice.
We where asked what if a person came up from behind and grabbed us so we did a few moves seated and standing again keeping every thing as simple as possible knowing that these woman would not be able to do fast spinning moves.
From what was said by the leader of the group as we departed I think they enjoyed the demonstration . I mentioned that we would like to do this on a regular basis and the leader stated she thought “this would grow into something big”.
That's about it. I know I have much to prepare for before we do another one and at least now I have an idea of what this group consists of.
Can't wait till we get to do a demo for the group of adult men and the kids group.

Sounds as if you had a good reception S. I am pleased that the group leader is optimistic too and that you yourself got something from it. Thank you for posting something positive my friend. I wish you well and look forward to hearing how this unfolds Jenna.

 

[decepticon]

As a long time martial artist with some teaching experience, I have to say I am surprised that I don't think I saw a single mention of firearms training for the elderly or the physically handicapped.

Based on the people I know of the 75 - 85yo age range, I'm not sure that the use of firearms would be well advised. Speaking of people I know personally (parents, in-laws, aunts/uncles), I worry often that one of them will get into trouble trying to use their firearms.

For example, my aunt tells the young toughs around town that she has a pistol and won't hesitate to use it if anyone trespasses on her property. Then she asks me to load it for her because her arthritic fingers can't quite manage the clip (I decline), tells me that she can't really see the ample target painted on the side of a large tree stump when I encourage target practice when her son is home to help her, and most recently lamented to me that she would like my husband to find her a biger gun with a more sensitive trigger because the aforementioned arthritis makes it hard for her to shoot her little Ruger.

Their eyesight is failing. Their hearing is off. They often mistake one large shape in the dark for another. Judgement seems to be slipping a bit also. My brother almost had a heart attack recently when my mother started casually waving her loaded pistol around toward his daughter as she was gesturing toward something else.

I guess if an older person had previous experience with firearms and still had good command of their faculties, then it would be fine. However I do feel that periodic reevaluation of abilities should be required. Also, IMO, advanced age is not a good time to introduce the use of firearms.

(I am speaking in generalities based on a small sample group. I'm sure some of you know older people who are sharp as tacks and who could do well with guns.)

 

[billc]

I would say though, if they can't handle a firearm, I don't think they will have the ability to handle themselves without one either. For the early seniors, I still have to say firearms are the way to go, no other training is as effective for seniors, the physically small, or the physically impaired.

 

[Buka]

What you are doing is helping them. There is nothing in the world more important. I salute and thank you. As I'm sure they do.

 

[aedrasteia]

I would say though, if they can't handle a firearm, I don't think they will have the ability to handle themselves without one either. For the early seniors, I still have to say firearms are the way to go, no other training is as effective for seniors, the physically small, or the physically impaired.

Poorly thought out advice Bill. Not wrong - poorly thought through, at least based on your comment.
And an equally poorly thought through assumption about what people are capable of - the primary resource people
have is their ability to think through what they do every day. And who is around them.

Unfortunately you're focusing on techniques and techniques should come in only after working through these:

* who assaults/harms seniors (overwhelmingly, family - known persons, a few/some strangers)

* when and where (dark parking lots are not it)

* what actually happens

Have you actually worked directly with seniors, both those who have expereinced crimes (often NOT reported to LE)
and those worried?
Seniors with physical and other limitations and others you mention can use what they have to make themselves safer, by thinking and planning better. Safety planning with seniors works great - and they feel very satisfied to be taking responsibility for themselves. Only Then we work in techniques. Thinking comes first.

Many are just fine with firearms - and me too. but they can also be aware that the problems Jenna spotlights are real.
I've asked about firearms in my sessions and have had very disturbing answers, mainly from
older women whose male family members have given them a firearm with little/no information, training,
practice.

How do I know? Because a 62 year old woman had the loaded pistol in her purse and excitedly pulled it
out to show me and the group - no idea about the safety, trigger etc - her son just told her to carry it,
and 'point and pull' if she needed to. And she was not the last woman to do this. She had no idea how to load/unload etc.

Because of those experiences, Now I ask regularly and it happens pretty often - many women are just scared of it
and hide it somewhere. Others figure 'he must know best, he's the man' so they carry it around with them and sometimes
stick it in a drawer at home. It provided some very tense 'teachable moments'.

Premature Focus on firearms and techniques means less time to figure out how to build safety into routine daily activities - and help them figure out how to deal with people close to them that they have a 'gut feeling' about - or worse, someone
known who has already threatened, intimidated or even hurt them.

that's where I put my time.

 

[billc]

I believe I covered all of your concerns in my post, specifically:

Yes, awareness of your situation comes first and general self-defense planning, not going into dark parking lots...and the rest are a big part of it.

Also:

Of course, if they are so old that they are running into issues of Alheimers, firearms would not be advised,

I was specifically addressing the advice about palm strikes, and kicking and the other physical aspects of self-defense, and how a firearm answers those questions for an elderly or physically handicapped person. At no point did I say just hand a senior a gun and let them start blasting away. I believe your concerns about firearms and the elderly not being able to handle them were mentioned in this part of my post:

I know your course may not cover firearms training and seems to be more in line with a traditional martial arts class, but did you mention to them that they should take the training and purchase at least a firearm for the home, and where they can, get an open or concealed carry permit.

I believe you are responding to a post I didn't write, but thanks for the help.

 

[Flea]

What about kino mutai? I think it was designed specifically for the elderly and folks with disabilities.

 

[tshadowchaser]

A good idea but I do not usualy suggest people bite. With all the blood passed desease theses days biteing is a last resort for me. Also Kino Mutai uses a strong grip strength to secure the individual while biteing.
That being said it is always an idea that can be used