Ed Parkers American Kenpo, Ed Parkers Chinese Kenpo, Isis confused!

Hollywood1340

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Fellow Artists,
In looking up links for my AKK Page I ran across two interesting points. One is Ed Parkers American Kenpo, EPAK (Eepack) for short, and Ed Parkers Chinese Kenpo, EPCK (Eepcheck). EPCK is evidenced by the IKCA, and the CKF, while EPAK is the IKKA, AKKI, amoung others. What is the difference? CKF and IKCA seem to say EPCK is what Ed Parker brought over from Hawii and what he taught, while most EPAK sites seem to say EPAK is a refinment of EPCK. I'm just really confused. I'm not looking for "Style is better" I'd just like to know what and if there is a difference.
Thank you!
 
E

Elfan

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My completly uninformed opinion:

Mr. Parker continued to evolove his teaching, terminology, curiculum, own way of moving etc. throughout his life. What you are refering to is some arbitrary distincion between an older more traditional art and what Kenpo became. Could be something else though.
:soapbox:
 

Zoran

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Originally posted by Hollywood1340

Fellow Artists,
In looking up links for my AKK Page I ran across two interesting points. One is Ed Parkers American Kenpo, EPAK (Eepack) for short, and Ed Parkers Chinese Kenpo, EPCK (Eepcheck). EPCK is evidenced by the IKCA, and the CKF, while EPAK is the IKKA, AKKI, amoung others. What is the difference? CKF and IKCA seem to say EPCK is what Ed Parker brought over from Hawii and what he taught, while most EPAK sites seem to say EPAK is a refinment of EPCK. I'm just really confused. I'm not looking for "Style is better" I'd just like to know what and if there is a difference.
Thank you!

IKKA, OKKA, AKKI, CKF, IKCA, and so on are nothing more than various organizations for Ed Parker's American Kenpo. Each group has their own ideas of where and how the system is to evolve. They all teach some form or other of Ed Parker's Kenpo, be it modified, older version, newer version, or as it was taught in 1991.
 

Big Pat

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In 1974 I trained in Mr. Parker's Chinese Kenpo under Sensei Jeff English. The 'Big Red" Kenpo Karate journal was just being made available to the new IKKA schools at this time. In a recent conversaion with a Kenpo Senior, he commented that Mr. Tracy spoke to Mr. Parker about using the term American Kenpo for his organization. Mr. Parker replied that he held the right to use "American Kenpo Karate".:D
 

Doc

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Originally posted by Hollywood1340

Fellow Artists,
In looking up links for my AKK Page I ran across two interesting points. One is Ed Parkers American Kenpo, EPAK (Eepack) for short, and Ed Parkers Chinese Kenpo, EPCK (Eepcheck). EPCK is evidenced by the IKCA, and the CKF, while EPAK is the IKKA, AKKI, amoung others. What is the difference? CKF and IKCA seem to say EPCK is what Ed Parker brought over from Hawii and what he taught, while most EPAK sites seem to say EPAK is a refinment of EPCK. I'm just really confused. I'm not looking for "Style is better" I'd just like to know what and if there is a difference.
Thank you!

Well at the risk of causing trouble; I've said it many times before. Mr. Parker's art evolved and changed according to his desired purpose through many different methologies. But the word evolved is misleading. It suggests leaving one thing behind and moving to something else. Not so. Every stage of Ed Parker's work exists and has continued to evolve as well, along with the latest most recent "commercial" versions.
 
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Hollywood1340

Hollywood1340

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Okay, makes sense now. Thank you all :) Cheesecake is always cheesecake. Whether it's sliced in cubes, squares or run through a blender, it's still cheesecake and one would be wise to eat it :))
 

Doc

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Originally posted by Big Pat

In 1974 I trained in Mr. Parker's Chinese Kenpo under Sensei Jeff English. The 'Big Red" Kenpo Karate journal was just being made available to the new IKKA schools at this time. In a recent conversaion with a Kenpo Senior, he commented that Mr. Tracy spoke to Mr. Parker about using the term American Kenpo for his organization. Mr. Parker replied that he held the right to use "American Kenpo Karate".:D

I knew/know Jeff. He was a gifted and very nice young man.

The"Big Red" was the "Manual" that was supposed to be for "franchise" instructors to use as a base for their interpretation of the art so at least within the group or school, there would be a consensus on what was taught. Ultimately the contents of the book was available to students as instructors became less capable and less expereinced. Then the technique manual became the "Bible" it was never meant to be.

The "bible" ushered in the commercial shift away from the "Chinese" era to the now dominent, motion based concept that actually had begun much earlier.
 

jazkiljok

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Originally posted by Doc

I knew/know Jeff. He was a gifted and very nice young man.

The"Big Red" was the "Manual" that was supposed to be for "franchise" instructors to use as a base for their interpretation of the art so at least within the group or school, there would be a consensus on what was taught. Ultimately the contents of the book was available to students as instructors became less capable and less expereinced. Then the technique manual became the "Bible" it was never meant to be.

The "bible" ushered in the commercial shift away from the "Chinese" era to the now dominent, motion based concept that actually had begun much earlier.

from a historical perspective would it be fair to say that before Parker's "chinese" era that the kenpo karate that Mr. Parker began with in Utah was based more on Okinawan/Japanese traditions and technique? if not... then what?
 

Doc

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Originally posted by jazkiljok

from a historical perspective would it be fair to say that before Parker's "chinese" era that the kenpo karate that Mr. Parker began with in Utah was based more on Okinawan/Japanese traditions and technique? if not... then what?

Prior to Parker studying with Chinese Masters, he was essentially doing what Chow taught with considerable more organization and defined techniques even then. (See Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate 1961.)

Chow's teaching was a mixture of the many disciplines he himself continued to study. Many are surprized to know Mr. Parker had wrestled and loved "mat work." Chow was adept at Jiu-jitsu and was training consistently with Henry Okazaki in his DanZan Ryu style. Mat work was a big part of what they practiced.

The Islands were the true melting pot of all the arts from Japan, Okinawa, Korea, and of course China. There was hardly an art not represented and everyone shared and cross trained with each other. From Tang Soo Do, to Kyokushinkai, to Family Arts of Chuan Shu

Under Chow they explored everything that they could prove actually worked regardless of origin. When you speak of striking it is hard to pick a dominent theme other than effectiveness, but the most dominent of arts was probably jiu-jitsu in it's purest form.

Chow's teaching was very unorganized and they would jump from one thing to another. The only thing that mattered is whatever they were working on had to work in the real world. Parker credited Chow with this approach of practicality over tradition, but used very little of any of Chow's methodology in curriculum developement.

Ultimately he told me Chow's teaching represented about 2% of what he evolved. Parker's 1st black diploma dated 1953 listed 3 separate arts. Kenpo, Jiu-jitsu, and Karate-do.
 
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