Doing weights for martial arts and other junk.

drop bear

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Came across this video before and was pretty impressed.This one is a longer version and shows the sorts of of things we could be doing regarding conditioning for martial arts.

And a bit of a nod towards this idea that getting big doesn't really hamper your ability to martial arts well.

Functional exercise plus weights. Produces a pretty decent result.

 

JR 137

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I love it when people say you shouldn't lift weights because you get too big, which limits your flexibility and slows you down.

Quite often said by people who've never lifted before.

Quite often said by people who didn't want to lift and were told lifting is bad by their teacher who also didn't want to lift.

Quite often said by people who want to justify their lack of motivation to lift.

Quite often said by people who think lifting is going to make them as big as Arnold Schwartzenegger was.

I even remember Bas Rutten saying in Black Belt Magazine way back in the early days of UFC that lifting wasn't good for MAists. Somewhere around '95. He said he only did a few lifts, and they were light weight.

Do you think he changed his stance on that one?
 

Danny T

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Yeah...Strength training is terrible.
Why in the world would anyone actually want to become stronger?
(For those who don't realize it the above is sarcasm)
Lifting for developing greater functional strength...yes absolutely.
Lifting for body building...not so much.

The video doesn't show him doing any static type of stretching but he certainly has some excellent dynamic flexibility along with explosive plyometric strength.
 

gpseymour

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Came across this video before and was pretty impressed.This one is a longer version and shows the sorts of of things we could be doing regarding conditioning for martial arts.

And a bit of a nod towards this idea that getting big doesn't really hamper your ability to martial arts well.

Functional exercise plus weights. Produces a pretty decent result.

I think getting big has a bad rep in MA because in many cases it's not functional strength. It's trained without enough attention to stretching, and not trained for explosive use. Clearly, that guy, if he has an identical level of combat skill, has a distinct combat advantage over me at the same age.
 

gpseymour

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Not exactly relevant to the question of weight lifting, but this should shoot down the idea that big guys are necessarily slow or inflexible.
I think that reputation was earned by bodybuilders who got into MA. I trained with a guy up to his brown belt (don't think he ever made black) who was a body builder before and during his NGA training. He became more flexible over the years because of his training, but his movement was always slower and...heavier, I think is a good description of the sense of it. And since bodybuilders are easier to spot than someone who does functional strength development, confirmation bias does the rest, and we have a stereotype.
 

shihansmurf

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There is no downside to being stronger. A few years ago I started serious weight training and I haven't noticed any significant drop in speed but I do hit a hell of a lot harder. I focus on bench, overhead press, squat, deadlift, and power clean. I do a bit of accessory work but it is just that, accessory to improve the main lifts.

I'm personally not a fan of bodybuilding for aesthetics but I've never encountered a bodybuilder who wasn't strong. I have had better results from the afore mentioned strength focus as to how I perform my karate.

Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 program ihas proven very effetive for me.

Just my view,
Mark
 

stonewall1350

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I love it when people say you shouldn't lift weights because you get too big, which limits your flexibility and slows you down.

Quite often said by people who've never lifted before.

Quite often said by people who didn't want to lift and were told lifting is bad by their teacher who also didn't want to lift.

Quite often said by people who want to justify their lack of motivation to lift.

Quite often said by people who think lifting is going to make them as big as Arnold Schwartzenegger was.

I even remember Bas Rutten saying in Black Belt Magazine way back in the early days of UFC that lifting wasn't good for MAists. Somewhere around '95. He said he only did a few lifts, and they were light weight.

Do you think he changed his stance on that one?

Here is the proper statement:

"Weights limit your flexibility when you train too much weight and don't do any flexibility training."

Which is a giant DUH! But then you have to recognize that weight lifting is important, and thus have no excuse for ignoring it. Lol.


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Buka

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Those are two great vids. But the first one, with the tire - kind of a pussy, I mean, where's the rest of the truck? (he probably ate it) What a beast!

That second vid was just as impressive. I really enjoyed both of those.

Proper weight training has no down side. I think what happens to a lot of people is they fall prey to the initial introduction of lifting - they get the "this is too hard, I don't like this, won't be good at it" feeling. While many of them, with just a little time under their belt, get that real feel of being stronger. Maybe while at the kitchen table when picking up a gallon of milk that feels like a quart, or carrying in groceries, or doing yard work, whatever. It usually shows up in everyday life before it does in the practicing of your Art. But when it does - bonus, ding, ding, ding!
 

Tony Dismukes

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Here is the proper statement:

"Weights limit your flexibility when you train too much weight and don't do any flexibility training."
How about Weights limit your flexibility when you lift incorrectly and don't do any flexibility training?

If you work your lifts through full range of motion you'll maintain or even improve your flexibility. The problem is, that's hard to do and you probably can't lift as much weight when you do that full range. So some people end up cheating and only doing the movements partway so they can feel like they're lifting more weight.
 

JR 137

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How about Weights limit your flexibility when you lift incorrectly and don't do any flexibility training?

If you work your lifts through full range of motion you'll maintain or even improve your flexibility. The problem is, that's hard to do and you probably can't lift as much weight when you do that full range. So some people end up cheating and only doing the movements partway so they can feel like they're lifting more weight.

Keep new like those guys on YouTube who do 100 pull-ups in 2 minutes, yet didn't really do a single one?
 

stonewall1350

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How about Weights limit your flexibility when you lift incorrectly and don't do any flexibility training?

If you work your lifts through full range of motion you'll maintain or even improve your flexibility. The problem is, that's hard to do and you probably can't lift as much weight when you do that full range. So some people end up cheating and only doing the movements partway so they can feel like they're lifting more weight.

Good point. I was mainly just poking holes in the idea of not weight lifting. And I will admit my training is slacking right now. Mainly because I am lazy, but I also have a lot of stuff on my plate with turkey season and family matters.

On a related note:

I saw this the other day and couldn't help but laugh...

MMA Fighting

Bodybuilding =/= fight training lol. Some people still think it does.


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Headhunter

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If you're going to lift weights to be strong that's fine but you should never use strength over techique I've seen plenty of strong guys doing technical drills and just use their strength as apposed to the actual techique but couldn't use it properly and then when a much smaller guy resisted this big muscle man couldn't put him on the floor I was embarrassed for the guy.

Sure weight training isn't a bad thing but it's not hugely important either
 
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drop bear

drop bear

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If you're going to lift weights to be strong that's fine but you should never use strength over techique I've seen plenty of strong guys doing technical drills and just use their strength as apposed to the actual techique but couldn't use it properly and then when a much smaller guy resisted this big muscle man couldn't put him on the floor I was embarrassed for the guy.

Sure weight training isn't a bad thing but it's not hugely important either

Strength is technique.
 

KangTsai

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I never believed that lifting weights were bad, and I treat the term "functional" training with the littlest respect possible. If it can mean anything, it means nothing. Plus, alot of CrossFit pansies show off that fact, and I try to stay as far away from that as possible.
 

KangTsai

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Weight training allows efficient use of a little something called progressive overload, which has been proven time and time again to be the best method of building strength. Whether isolated or not.
 

KangTsai

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I think getting big has a bad rep in MA because in many cases it's not functional strength. It's trained without enough attention to stretching, and not trained for explosive use. Clearly, that guy, if he has an identical level of combat skill, has a distinct combat advantage over me at the same age.
"Functional" is basically a myth because of how little meaning it actually has.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I never believed that lifting weights were bad, and I treat the term "functional" training with the littlest respect possible. If it can mean anything, it means nothing. Plus, alot of CrossFit pansies show off that fact, and I try to stay as far away from that as possible.
How exactly does functional mean nothing? Training the muscles that you need is the opposite of training nothing?

And while I have issues with CrossFit people, primarily hurting themselves/noobies unnecessarily, how exactly are they pansies?
 

kuniggety

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If you're going to lift weights to be strong that's fine but you should never use strength over techique I've seen plenty of strong guys doing technical drills and just use their strength as apposed to the actual techique but couldn't use it properly and then when a much smaller guy resisted this big muscle man couldn't put him on the floor I was embarrassed for the guy.

Sure weight training isn't a bad thing but it's not hugely important either

What I'm getting from your post is that weight training isn't as good as proper technique, so it's not hugely important to worry about weight training. What happens when you have two guys with equal (or close) skill but one is stronger because he actually practiced picking up heavy things and putting them back down? My money is on the stronger guy winning that fight. You might fight a battle with your mind but you have to remember that you're doing it with your body. I don't care if you're a better driver...if you drag race a V4 versus a V8... that V4 is gonna lose.
 

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