Do you have the right to teach your child anything you want?

Ken Morgan

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http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1629680

A seven-year-old girl who showed up at her Winnipeg school with hate propaganda written on her body told a social worker that "black people should die," according to testimony yesterday at a child protection trial.

The girl -- now in the custody of Child and Family Services (CFS) along with her younger brother -- told the social worker that her mother and stepfather taught her such beliefs.
 

Tez3

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By the sound of it though that may not be the main issue, drug taking, violence and neglect could be the reasons the children are put into care permanently.
 
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Ken Morgan

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By the sound of it though that may not be the main issue, drug taking, violence and neglect could be the reasons the children are put into care permanently.

I don't disagree, but I believe that became an issue after the fact.

I know of many people who I don't think should be allowed to be parents based on many of their habits.
 

Twin Fist

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this is a no brainer

teaching your child your beliefs, SO LONG AS those beliefs are not illegal, or encourage one to break existing law, should never be infringed.

That is not only parental right, but parental responsibility.

not liking those beliefs in no way makes them illegal
 

Xue Sheng

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I'm not sure how that would play out in NYS but it is my understanding that having children in NYS is not a right but a privilege so I am guessing it would end much the same.

However due to the fact this is a 7 year old girl and the whole thing is getting me rather upset due to the danger the parents put this little girl in I do believe I will bow out of this since to me this is REALLY close to child abuse and child abuse tends to get ole Xue incredibly angry.


Note: Calling these people parents was FAR from my first choice as to what to call them but I doubt MT's filters would have allowed my first choice.
 

Xue Sheng

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this is a no brainer

teaching your child your beliefs, SO LONG AS those beliefs are not illegal, or encourage one to break existing law, should never be infringed.

That is not only parental right, but parental responsibility.

not liking those beliefs in no way makes them illegal

Could fall under Hate crime in NYS

And with this I am out my blood pressure is already on the rise
 

Andrew Green

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Hate speech is not protected under Canadian Law, what they where teaching their children was illegal.
 

Twin Fist

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it is only hate speech if you say it

did the child SAY it?

and hate speech is all BS anyway.

untill someone ACTS on an idea, ideas should not be illegal.
 

SensibleManiac

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Exactly, it is illegal in Canada to spread hate.
These people were breaking the law in teaching their children hate.
I would go as far as to say that this is child abuse.
It is a fact that teaching children to hate will affect them negatively in their lives and health. Not to mention how it can affect others.

This has nothing to do with what anyone "likes" it has to do with what is right for the children and sane and legal.
 

SensibleManiac

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untill someone ACTS on an idea, ideas should not be illegal.

So if someone "plans" or has ideas about blowing up a building then this shouldn't be illegal because they haven't acted?
If a child has "I'm going to blow up the school" written on their body, the school and authorities would act on that so fast, is this any different?

Dude , you're only digging your hole deeper.
 

Andrew Green

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it is only hate speech if you say it

did the child SAY it?

and hate speech is all BS anyway.

untill someone ACTS on an idea, ideas should not be illegal.

Certain idea's are illegal, at least when they are vocalized or put into print. Slander, hate, harassment, etc.

Are you not also a supporter of keeping the people in Gitmo locked up? Even the ones that hadn't done anything and therefore can't really be tried, but if let go they are at a high risk to do something? They are basically there based on "ideas", not actions.

Had this been a Muslim kid, with similar views on Americans would you be so forgiving of the parents?
 

Gordon Nore

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By the sound of it though that may not be the main issue, drug taking, violence and neglect could be the reasons the children are put into care permanently.

I suspect so. Even though these issues came out after the fact, I think this will drive the decision. I think an argument could be made also that the level of hate speech -- advocating for killing blacks -- places these children and their black peers at risk of violence. It's a terrible mess.
 
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Ken Morgan

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Ive had dealings with people much more subtle than this particular bunch of primates.

Ive meet black people who hate whites; Ive meet Orientals who hate East Asians, man the list can go on. The difference is they are quiet and subtle about it all. That doesnt make it right of course. They just dont draw attention to themselves; if you say anything to them youre the racist who doesnt understand what they go through.

Racism and intolerance is everywhere. Its not just race, its language, its education, its region, its gender, its political, its religion or lack of it.

95% or the people dont care one way or the other, but that other 5%? Theyve got a few screws lose.

Back to the subject at hand, unless we plan on having an acceptable, (acceptable to who?), government plan on how to raise children, what they are to be taught, unless we want the government coming into your home on a regular basis and checking up on you, I dont see that anyone has the right to tell you what is acceptable to teach your child, no matter how offensive others may view it.

I see beliefs and opinions all the time that I disagree with, Ive taught my kids my beliefs and why I think that way. Hopefully they will look at the world combine it with their experiences and form their own opinions. My son would stand up to bullys to help others out, he doesnt tolerant any form of intolerance, from anyone. My daughter will do anything to help anyone. Good kids, the both of them.

It never ceases to amaze me how many ****ed up and stupid people there are in the world.
 

Bill Mattocks

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In the USA, there is no such thing as a crime called 'hate speech'.

A 'hate crime' in the USA is a sentence modifier, an enhancement of a specific crime, not a crime in and of itself.

A person can be bigoted, racist, hateful, or whatever, and they can write about it, sing about it, stand on a street corner and shout about it, etc.

That is not to say they may not commit other crimes in the process, such as incitement to riot, harassment, assault, or tort crimes such as slander.

However, in the USA, it is perfectly legal to be a racist and to say it. One is equally entitled to raise their child to be a racist.

Is it ugly? Yes. Is it wrong? Morally, I'd say yes to that too. Legally? No crime, under most circumstances that I'm aware of.

The problem with defending a hater's right to hate is that all too often, people presume that means you share the hater's beliefs.
 

Archangel M

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So thinking/believing it but keeping it to yourself is OK....but saying (or wearing) what you think is a "crime"?

What they are teaching their children is despicable, but criminalizing it is a slippery slope.
 

arnisador

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What's considered child abuse in one country may not be considered child abuse in another country (e.g., marrying off an 8 year old is legal in some countries, we know).

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1629680A seven-year-old girl who showed up at her Winnipeg school with hate propaganda written on her body told a social worker that "black people should die," according to testimony yesterday at a child protection trial.

I'd like for teaching a child that extreme message of hate to be considered child abuse in my country.

Of course, the parents deserve a fair chance to make their case that this wasn't what they were teaching. As to where to draw the line with teaching kids racist beliefs...I dunno.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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Yes you have the right to teach your kids any belief system you want. This is America after all, and people should be able to pass on their belief systems to their offspring, no matter what that might be.

That being said when a person teaches their kids to do something illegal there should be serious consequences, up to and possibly including removal of the kids all together.

Hate, Racism, Sexism, Foul Language, or any other deplorable behaviors are horrible and despisable, but once you start punishing people for teaching their kids morals that do not equate to your own, then you start down a path that could easily and quickly lead to sterilization programs, and licenses to even have kids.

I agree that many people should not have kids, but every time I try to think of a valid reason to force someone to educate their kids a certain way, or teach their kids certain values, or the flip side not teach their kid certain values, or certain things, it always seem too easy to go to the extreme.

No I think we need to allow people to make mistakes, and enforce the law when it comes to sexual abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse, neglect, health risks, etc.
The alternative just becomes too scary for me.
 

Twin Fist

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if al the muslim parents did was teach him to hate americans? thats ok

if they trained the kid to ACT on that hate, that would NOT be ok.

mind you, i think they are lousy parents, but I dont like the abrogation of parental rights.

if this is wrong, the next step is taking away someone's kids for teaching them that homosexuality is a sin, or that citizens have the right to bear arms.

it is a dangerous precedent

Had this been a Muslim kid, with similar views on Americans would you be so forgiving of the parents?
 

Andrew Green

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I'll say this again, do you folks that believe teaching racism and "black people should be killed" is ok think the same way when that hatred is directed in other places. Groups like the Taliban, Al Queda, Nazis. Should people with those beliefs be allowed to teach their children those beliefs?

Suppose some teenager decided to follow through on his parents beliefs, he blows up a synagogue because he spent his whole life hearing that the jews are evil and need to be removed. Are you going to say that the parents did nothing wrong and where within their right to pass on their beliefs?

Personally I am quite glad that it is illegal to spread that sort of belief in my country.
 

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