Different WCK body power generation mechanics

[kung fu fighter]

There are many degrees or levels of WCK body mechanics and ways to generate power. In my opinion some WCK body mechanics and ways to generate power are more powerful and effective than others. For example, using one's core muscles to torque at their waist by pivoting on the K1 is much more powerful and efficient than using local muscles by pivoting on the heels. While internal snake body power generation is more advanced than the previous two methods.


These can be categorized into 3 basic different types.

1. Rack type (structure, good Yip Man guys such as TST and WSL)
2. Body type (like swinging a baseball bat ie. Alan Orr)
3. Force flow line type (snake body coil spring ie. Hendrik Santo)

 

[Kwan Sau]

Hi kff.
This thread should prove to be quite interesting!

(Are you based in the USA? East coast? West coast?)

 

[kung fu fighter]

Hi kff.
This thread should prove to be quite interesting!

(Are you based in the USA? East coast? West coast?)

East coast, I am in Toronto, Canada. How about yourself?

 

[Kwan Sau]

Ah, that sucks. Too far away. Im in TN. Was just curious how far away some of you guys are located. Would be easier to discuss some of these topics if we all could meet n greet.

 

[Kwan Sau]

These can be categorized into 3 basic different types.

1. Rack type (structure, good Yip Man guys such as TST and WSL)
2. Body type (like swinging a baseball bat ie. Alan Orr)
3. Force flow line type (snake body coil spring ie. Hendrik Santo)

Can you provide an example of #3?

Thx kff

 

[geezer]

...internal snake body power generation is more advanced than the previous two methods.

Yeah? That's what she said!

OK, sorry about that bit of adolescent regression, but seriously, all I've ever seen from Hendrik on forums was windy lectures. Is there anyplace where I can see this "internal snake power" demonstrated? To be honest, I'm not getting a full picture from the written word alone.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Can you provide an example of #3?

Thx kff

all I've ever seen from Hendrik on forums was windy lectures. Is there anyplace where I can see this "internal snake power" demonstrated? To be honest, I'm not getting a full picture from the written word alone.

Sun punch with four types of power generation - YouTube

 

[Kwan Sau]

Sun punch with four types of power generation - YouTube

Maybe its just me, but I don't see anything in that :29 second clip that is not already contained within the YM WC system.
I"ll admit it is difficult to understand what he is saying through his thick accent, but by the way his body was moving and punching, didn't seem to be all that special. I could be wrong though... thx for posting it kff.
So, is the last part of his clip what you meant above by "snake body method" etc?

 

[kung fu fighter]

Maybe its just me, but I don't see anything in that :29 second clip that is not already contained within the YM WC system.
I"ll admit it is difficult to understand what he is saying through his thick accent, but by the way his body was moving and punching, didn't seem to be all that special. I could be wrong though... thx for posting it kff.
So, is the last part of his clip what you meant above by "snake body method" etc?

Pay attention to the effect that his punch had on his partner's body at 0:19 into the clip. that is the snake body in action also known as the force line type of power generation.

From my understanding here are couple of other videos that uses a similar concept to the force line type:

Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - YouTube
Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - How it Works - YouTube
Here is one from a high level bagua master

 

[Kwan Sau]

Pay attention to the effect that his punch had on his partner's body at 0:19 into the clip. that is the snake body in action also know as the force line type of power generation.

Thx KFF.
I did pay attention. And thx for posting the vid. What he does is contained in the YM system. The method he uses at :19 affected his training partner because he closed the distance slightly by stepping and extending his shoulder joint... Stepping and shoulder joint extension is contained within YMWC.

 

[kung fu fighter]

Thx KFF.
I did pay attention. And thx for posting the vid.

you're welcome! Which linage of YM wing chun do you practice?

What he does is contained in the YM system. The method he uses at :19 affected his training partner because he closed the distance slightly by stepping and extending his shoulder joint... Stepping and shoulder joint extension is contained within YMWC.

No it's not that simple, there is alot more to it than that ! in order to do what he is doing, one have to internally cultivate the body. Try stepping and extending your shoulder joint into your partner and see if it has the same type of jarring after effect on your partner as in the clip.

Take a look at the other clips I posted to get a better picture of what I am referring to, for example in the Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - YouTube the opponent is pressing directly against the practioner's torso/body when he bounces him away. there is no stepping or shoulder joint extension involved.

 

[Hong Kong Pooey]

you're welcome! Which linage of YM wing chun do you practice?



No it's not that simple, there is alot more to it than that ! in order to do what he is doing, one have to internally cultivate the body. Try stepping and extending your shoulder joint into your partner and see if it has the same type of jarring after effect on your partner as in the clip.

Take a look at the other clips I posted to get a better picture of what I am referring to, for example in the Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - YouTube the opponent is pressing directly against the practioner's torso/body when he bounces him away. there is no stepping or shoulder joint extension involved.

Sorry, but I for one am not buying that.

It's about as convincing to me as the Kiai master stuff.

 

[Kwan Sau]

No it's not that simple, there is alot more to it than that!

I'm sure there is more to it...however, is the vid clip you posted a tai chi vid? Are you saying Hendrik does tai chi in the first clip you posted(?)

Also, something else to keep in mind... the guy he is punching. One can't discern from watching a video, however it's difficult to know from watching a video if his elbow structure was constant or varied as Hendrik was executing the various punching methods, etc.

 

[geezer]

Take a look at the other clips I posted to get a better picture of what I am referring to, for example in the Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - YouTube the opponent is pressing directly against the practioner's torso/body when he bounces him away. there is no stepping or shoulder joint extension involved.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Are you messing with us?

 

[zuti car]

Sun punch with four types of power generation - YouTube

Nothing new, all this can be found in Yip Man's WC .

 

[zuti car]

Take a look at the other clips I posted to get a better picture of what I am referring to, for example in the Any Point on the Body Becomes a Weapon - YouTube the opponent is pressing directly against the practioner's torso/body when he bounces him away. there is no stepping or shoulder joint extension involved.

I would like to have a chance to push these people for real , just once

 

[kung fu fighter]

I'm sure there is more to it...however, is the vid clip you posted a tai chi vid? Are you saying Hendrik does tai chi in the first clip you posted(?)

No, Hendrik doesn't do tai chi, he does wing chun, I posted the tai chi vid because it was the closest I could find on youtube to what the force flow of snake engine looks like, since you said the clip of Hendrik was too short.

Also, something else to keep in mind... the guy he is punching. One can't discern from watching a video, however it's difficult to know from watching a video if his elbow structure was constant or varied as Hendrik was executing the various punching methods, etc.

I assure you my elbow structure is pretty decent, but it didn't work against Hendrik's snake engine force line type force generation. That's why I now practice force line snake engine type power generation. lol

Here is a video of Sergio doing his version of the snake engine

 

[LFJ]

In my opinion some WCK body mechanics and ways to generate power are more powerful and effective than others. For example, using one's core muscles to torque at their waist by pivoting on the K1 is much more powerful and efficient than using local muscles by pivoting on the heels. While internal snake body power generation is more advanced than the previous two methods.

Because it doesn't pivot, but slithers? You think core muscles to torque at the waist are not used when pivoting on the heels? What local muscles do you think are used by pivoting on the heels?

1. Rack type (structure, good Yip Man guys such as TST and WSL)
2. Body type (like swinging a baseball bat ie. Alan Orr)
3. Force flow line type (snake body coil spring ie. Hendrik Santo)

What does "rack type" mean? TST and WSL are not the same.

Honestly, CSL Wing Chun is the only other lineage I see many close similarities to, from WSLVT, although we are still different.

 

[Kwan Sau]

Power generation, IMHO, is not a matter of which method is 'more advanced' or which method uses whatever type of body mechanic.
Generating and using "power" has a lot to do with having a good grasp of the qualities of yin and yang in each moment of an encounter...both between you and your opponent, your own four limbs, each side of your body, each elbow (most important)...and of course: all being backed up / supported by structurally sound and fast footwork!
Additionally, timing is also a major factor. Nothing works without it. Or, should I say, some things work better with proper timing.
Finally, power generation is enhanced by certain power-training exercises unique to WC/WT/VT practitioners. If your instructor teaches this aspect of the art, but the student ignores it because the exercise/drill/routine is "too hard or difficult"...then they will won't have that attribute in their tactical toobox when the **** hits the fan.

 

[wtxs]

Yeah? That's what she said!

OK, sorry about that bit of adolescent regression, but seriously, all I've ever seen from Hendrik on forums was windy lectures. Is there anyplace where I can see this "internal snake power" demonstrated? To be honest, I'm not getting a full picture from the written word alone.

Aaaah ... the infamous who discovered the "snake engine". Careful not to mention his name too many times, like what can happen if you say "Beetle Juice' three times. I would hate to have him pollute this forum. :waah: