Differences between WTF and ITF?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

OK, so i know for the most part the differences in the competition sparring between the two, but as far as actual styles go, how are they different? Also, why did they become different enough to become two different styles, and why are their so many differences in their sparring? Any answers would be appreciated Did some research outside, but know I can trust the answers on here more than from random people on the internet...well...different random people on the internet lol

 

[Cyriacus]

In order:

The styles are different because they have different techniques and standards.
They never so much became different, as always were. Taekwondo had a dozen or so founders.
There are so many differences in the sparring due to the rulesets.

 

[ETinCYQX]

This is frankly easier to answer if there are specific questions you have about the differences.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

ok, more specific: I have heard that WTF and ITF used to be the same style until very recently (within the last hundred years), is this true, and if so why did they split apart? Why is WTF competitions full contact rather then semicontact like ITF:was it developed more for actual battle, while ITF was developed more as a sport version of it? Or is there some other reason for the full vs semi contact?ITF, as far as I know, focuses on punches, while WTF doesn't seem to have many, if any...if they really did come from the same origin, what happened to the punches, or did they not focus on punches until after the split? Finally, do either of them have self-defense application? I'd assume that ITF would because if it does have punches WTF doesn't, then its more well-rounded, but the idea that it is only semi-contact makes me feel as if it would be less useful in self-defense situations, because the artists aren't truly taught how to hurt each other.

If any of this sounds offensive to either style, I don't mean it that way. I don't know enough about them to hold any real bias either for or against them.

 

[terryl965]

Question 1. I have heard that WTF and ITF used to be the same style until very recently (within the last hundred years),

Answer Tae Kwon Do was developed and named in the mid fifties, so it is not a couple of hundred years old.

Question 2. Why is WTF competitions full contact rather then semicontact like ITF:was it developed more for actual battle, while ITF was developed more as a sport version of it? Or is there some other reason for the full vs semi contact?

Answer 2. Actually WTF is the sport side of TKD so you have that backwards

Qustion 3 . ITF, as far as I know, focuses on punches, while WTF doesn't seem to have many, if any...if they really did come from the same origin, what happened to the punches, or did they not focus on punches until after the split?

answer 3. First off another mis conception WTF does have punches just in competition you are not allowed to hit the head with a punch. Punches does score to the body but has to cause tembeling shock or stop you in your tracks.

Question 4. Finally, do either of them have self-defense application? I'd assume that ITF would because if it does have punches WTF doesn't,

answer 4 Both styles have self defense, one step and poomsae or Kata. forms. Some WTF school only focus on sport so they do not teach anything else, but alot of WTF school or KKW has a well rounded curriculum and alot have incorporated Hapkido and BBJ into there curriculum.

 

[Dirty Dog]

ok, more specific: I have heard that WTF and ITF used to be the same style until very recently (within the last hundred years), is this true, and if so why did they split apart?

Oh my....
Neither WTF (which is not even a style of taekwondo, but rather an organization devoted to one thing and one thing only - the promotion of the olympic sport of taekwondo) or the ITF, or any other TKD org existed 100 years ago.

You don't need to worry about the differences between the kukkiwon (which is a style of TKD that is promoted as a sport by the WTF) and the ITF (of which there are at least three, all claiming to be the ITF). You need to learn something of the history of taekwondo in general before you can worry about the details.

 

[Gnarlie]

ok, more specific: I have heard that WTF and ITF used to be the same style until very recently (within the last hundred years), is this true, and if so why did they split apart? Why is WTF competitions full contact rather then semicontact like ITF:was it developed more for actual battle, while ITF was developed more as a sport version of it? Or is there some other reason for the full vs semi contact?ITF, as far as I know, focuses on punches, while WTF doesn't seem to have many, if any...if they really did come from the same origin, what happened to the punches, or did they not focus on punches until after the split? Finally, do either of them have self-defense application? I'd assume that ITF would because if it does have punches WTF doesn't, then its more well-rounded, but the idea that it is only semi-contact makes me feel as if it would be less useful in self-defense situations, because the artists aren't truly taught how to hurt each other.

If any of this sounds offensive to either style, I don't mean it that way. I don't know enough about them to hold any real bias either for or against them.

This is difficult to answer as Taekwondo has never really been a unified single style. Here's my limited understanding of TKD's somewhat blurry history. I look forward to others correcting anything that's not quite right.

Even in the 1940's - 1970's, there were separate Kwan (schools) teaching separate techniques and emphasising different areas.

Choi Hong Hi, the founder of the ITF, came out of one of these Kwan, and developed and documented his own syllabus and methods. He had success promoting his version of Taekwondo in various countries, including North Korea.

In the early 70's, the KTA (formed from the unification of leaders from the Kwans without Choi) and Dr Un Yong Kim acting with the help of the South Korean president, founded the Kukkiwon, the headquarters for South Korean Taekwondo. Kukki TKD was a separate system to Choi's ITF, with a separate syllabus based on the Kwan movements but incorporating more traditional Korean philosophical principles. (Choi had developed much of his syllabus independently).

The Kukkiwon administers a syllabus and testing requirements and certification for the South Korean variant of the martial art Taekwondo.

The WTF is a separate organisation that governs the rules and administration of Olympic sport Taekwondo (to compete internationally one needs to be a Kukkiwon 1st dan or higher)

WTF competition is full contact because at the time of the development of the sport, the focus was on building a way to test the techniques of taekwondo under full contact conditions, without inhibiting the development of superior kicking skills - so hand techniques outside of punching to the body were eliminated from the sport rule set.

For this reason, you're seeing no punching in WTF competition. It's a sport where punching the face is not allowed.

I can't say why ITF competition remains semi contact, although I suspect most competitions at higher level are close to full contact anyway.

Both ITF and Kukkiwon Taekwondo feature many punches, and a proportion of the hand and leg techniques are the same under both. The method of power generation is different (ITF sine wave knee spring, WTF waist twist and weight shift)

Both feature self defence as part of the syllabus, and practitioners of either should be more than capable of defending themselves / inflicting pain.

The focus for sport purposes is on kicking, but the martial art including hand techniques and self defence applications in both cases remains.

Gnarlie

 

[Cyriacus]

Its redundant now, but Ill pitch in.

ok, more specific: I have heard that WTF and ITF used to be the same style until very recently (within the last hundred years),

No.

Why is WTF competitions full contact rather then semicontact like ITF:was it developed more for actual battle, while ITF was developed more as a sport version of it? Or is there some other reason for the full vs semi contact?

Fun fact: Rugby is a full contact sport. Therefore, Rugby is designed for actual battle.
Seriously but. No, it isnt like that. Ones full contact, the other isnt. Thats really all there is to it. Theyre seperate systems with seperate sporting venues. Dont try and view them as different organisations teaching the same martial art. Theres too many technical differences. Theres full contact, semi contact, and no contact Karate. Theres semi-contact Kickboxing as well. Sport is not combat. Sport is a venue of sport, and if the system being used happens to work well in a fight as well, thats cool. But not really relevant to a sport venue.

ITF, as far as I know, focuses on punches,

No. Im sure some ITF teachers focus on punches, but if You watch an ITF Bout, count the punches. If theres more, itll be because of volleys, of which only a couple of punches land. More time will be spent kicking, mostly.

while WTF doesn't seem to have many, if any...

WTF is not a style. I figure I should quickly mention that. WTF is a sporting venue with rules that make punching less regular than kicking.
Some people like to punch anyway, but.
And, its harder to punch those guys than one might think.

if they really did come from the same origin, what happened to the punches, or did they not focus on punches until after the split?

They didnt go anywere. Theyre still taught, and they are still a part of any way shape or form of TKD whos outlet hasnt specifically removed them. In which case it is the outlet/teacher, and not the system.

Finally, do either of them have self-defense application?

Yes.

I'd assume that ITF would because if it does have punches WTF doesn't,

It doesnt.

then its more well-rounded, but the idea that it is only semi-contact makes me feel as if it would be less useful in self-defense situations, because the artists aren't truly taught how to hurt each other.

They are, by a good teacher. Level of contact should be decided by control, and not normality.

If any of this sounds offensive to either style, I don't mean it that way. I don't know enough about them to hold any real bias either for or against them.

Its not offensive to be curious. Youre telling us what you think you know, and as long as youre willing to hear information to the contrary, theres nothing offensive here.

 

[chrispillertkd]

In the early 70's, the KTA (formed from the unification of leaders from the Kwans without Choi) and Dr Un Yong Kim acting with the help of the South Korean president, founded the Kukkiwon, the headquarters for South Korean Taekwondo. Kukki TKD was a separate system to Choi's ITF, with a separate syllabus based on the Kwan movements but incorporating more traditional Korean philosophical principles. (Choi had developed much of his syllabus independently).

Well, yes and no. Gen. Choi certainly developed the ITF syllabus independent of the KKW, but he had input from various masters who came from different Kwans, too. There's a lot made about people from the Oh Do Kwan and Chung Do Kwan influencing the ITF invarious ways, and that's accurate. But I know there were people from more Kwans involved, too. Specifically, I am thinking of the Chang Moo Kwan here and there are dallyon drills in Gen. Choi's books where you work with a partner on conditioning your knife-hands and forearms that are identical to some that GM Nam Suk Lee of the Chang Moo Kwan taught.

But, in the end, Gen. Choi had the final word on what went into his system and what didn't.

I can't say why ITF competition remains semi contact, although I suspect most competitions at higher level are close to full contact anyway.

The reason behind ITF competition being semi-contact is because even with protective equipment you can get injured. That being said, I've seen knock outs in ITF world level competition probably nearly as much as I've seen them in WTF events. This is anecdotal, of course, because I don't find WTF sparring interesting to watch so I don't view it a lot, so take this comment for what it's worth

The difference between the two, however, is that in the ITF if you purposefully knock out your opponent you're going to get DQ'ed.

The method of power generation is different (ITF sine wave knee spring, WTF waist twist and weight shift)

Much has been said about sine wave but, really, the ITF teaches that power is generated from both sine wave and hip twist. You can find people who post what amount to conspiracy theories about sine wave, but if you read anything Gen. Choi wrote he always talked about hip twist. I'd also point out that the Theories of Power (Reaction Force, Speed, Mass, Concentration, Equilibrium, and Breath Control) don't even mention sine wave by name. It is, really, one way of mobilizing one's Mass, just like hip twist. (It does also relate to Equilibrium and Speed, but getting one's Mass into a technique is the main thing.)

I'd also point out that when executing sine wave one's knees should only bend 30 degrees. In other words, it's actually supposed to be a somewhat subtle motion. Some of the videos you see on youtube are great examples of exaggerated sine wave, or what Gen. Choi called a "Saw-Toothed Wave." You think a little bit of something is a good thing so more must be better but actually end up impeding your power because your knees bend too much.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Manny]

This is difficult to answer as Taekwondo has never really been a unified single style. Here's my limited understanding of TKD's somewhat blurry history. I look forward to others correcting anything that's not quite right.

Even in the 1940's - 1970's, there were separate Kwan (schools) teaching separate techniques and emphasising different areas.

Choi Hong Hi, the founder of the ITF, came out of one of these Kwan, and developed and documented his own syllabus and methods. He had success promoting his version of Taekwondo in various countries, including North Korea.

In the early 70's, the KTA (formed from the unification of leaders from the Kwans without Choi) and Dr Un Yong Kim acting with the help of the South Korean president, founded the Kukkiwon, the headquarters for South Korean Taekwondo. Kukki TKD was a separate system to Choi's ITF, with a separate syllabus based on the Kwan movements but incorporating more traditional Korean philosophical principles. (Choi had developed much of his syllabus independently).

The Kukkiwon administers a syllabus and testing requirements and certification for the South Korean variant of the martial art Taekwondo.

The WTF is a separate organisation that governs the rules and administration of Olympic sport Taekwondo (to compete internationally one needs to be a Kukkiwon 1st dan or higher)

WTF competition is full contact because at the time of the development of the sport, the focus was on building a way to test the techniques of taekwondo under full contact conditions, without inhibiting the development of superior kicking skills - so hand techniques outside of punching to the body were eliminated from the sport rule set.

For this reason, you're seeing no punching in WTF competition. It's a sport where punching the face is not allowed.

I can't say why ITF competition remains semi contact, although I suspect most competitions at higher level are close to full contact anyway.

Both ITF and Kukkiwon Taekwondo feature many punches, and a proportion of the hand and leg techniques are the same under both. The method of power generation is different (ITF sine wave knee spring, WTF waist twist and weight shift)

Both feature self defence as part of the syllabus, and practitioners of either should be more than capable of defending themselves / inflicting pain.

The focus for sport purposes is on kicking, but the martial art including hand techniques and self defence applications in both cases remains.

Gnarlie

We must realize the Sport Kyokushin Karate on competition does not allow punches or hand techs to the neck/fec/head area and allow any kick to the torso and the head and punches to the the torso only.... so we can conclude that TKD WTF is not the only full contact martial art tha does not allow punches th the head.

Manny

 

[miguksaram]

I'm just grab some popcorn and watch this powder keg burn.

 

[Gnarlie]

I'm just grab some popcorn and watch this powder keg burn.

I don't see a powder keg. Under it all, WTF and ITF are more similar than, for example, Karate and Taekwondo, and those two arts are able to communicate and learn from each other, so why should we be any different?

I don't even see direct competition between the two, it's more of a horses for courses each to his own situation.

I've certainly learned a lot about TKD history and technique from both ITF and Kukkiwon / WTF practitioners over the years. I've generally found both a pleasure to work with.

Gnarlie

 

[Cyriacus]

We must realize the Sport Kyokushin Karate on competition does not allow punches or hand techs to the neck/fec/head area and allow any kick to the torso and the head and punches to the the torso only.... so we can conclude that TKD WTF is not the only full contact martial art tha does not allow punches th the head.

Manny

And some others. However, the Kyokushin ruleset is based on Knockdowns, rather than clean strikes. Punching is more regular due to the difference in the sparring/kumite.

 

[Earl Weiss]

:was it developed more for actual battle, .......?.

I think there is a word for those who develop empty hand systems for actual battle............ "Dead".