Differences between Kenpo and Kempo?

kelly keltner

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
516
Reaction score
11
Location
Sacramento,Ca
I would refer you to posts in this thread numbered; 11,15,18,56,and 59.

Also for everyone including John. I have been working on getting hanshi Juchnik to respond to this forum.

kelly
 

Mekugi

Orange Belt
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
Yokkaichi, Japan
So why mention it in number 99?

kelly keltner said:
I would refer you to posts in this thread numbered; 11,15,18,56,and 59.

Also for everyone including John. I have been working on getting hanshi Juchnik to respond to this forum.

kelly
 

kelly keltner

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
516
Reaction score
11
Location
Sacramento,Ca
Just feelin lucky today, and when I'm feelin lucky I just have to act on it. I'm workin on suppresing that little personality quirk of mine, but it's hard.

kelly
 

kelly keltner

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
516
Reaction score
11
Location
Sacramento,Ca
HMMM beating a dead horse.

"My sitser had a horse that broke its leg. So I shot it.
Now it has a broken leg and a gunshot wound. I guess it's supposed to help with the healing process. If it's not better by next week I'm gonna shoot it again." Larry the cable guy Excerpt from the blue collar comedy tour.


kelly
 

kelly keltner

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
516
Reaction score
11
Location
Sacramento,Ca
Besides in post #61 Mr. bishop said he would provide Hanshi Juchnik phone # if he (Juchnik) emailed him. As John has stated he recieved an email but hanshi has yet to recieve a phone number.

kelly

P.s. sorry couldn't resist this one.
 

BlackCatBonz

Master Black Belt
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
1,233
Reaction score
35
Location
Port Hope ON
Kane said:
I've heard the art of kenpo and now a few weeks ago I find there is another MA called Kempo. Can someone please explain the differences? I am kinda confused on what is the difference between the two. Thanks!
i just wanted to beat this horse some more.....purely for sport.
this thread has gone a wee bit off course by the slightest of margins. Kane merely asked as to the differences between the two.....not an argument on who spelled what, what way, or the A&E expose on mitose. Could we not, as a group of adults studying this martial art that we love, simply reply......Hey Kane, some groups spell it "kenpo" and other groups spell it "kempo". and there are some stylistic differences some might say too numerous to mention here.

btw.......is someone taking a trip to japan during this investigation to speak with the scholarly authorities on the history of the buddhist temple where Kosho was to have originated, with the assistance of an unbiased translator?
or does the research begin and end in the USA?

shawn
 
K

Karazenpo

Guest
BlackCatBonz said:
i just wanted to beat this horse some more.....purely for sport.
this thread has gone a wee bit off course by the slightest of margins. Kane merely asked as to the differences between the two.....not an argument on who spelled what, what way, or the A&E expose on mitose. Could we not, as a group of adults studying this martial art that we love, simply reply......Hey Kane, some groups spell it "kenpo" and other groups spell it "kempo". and there are some stylistic differences some might say too numerous to mention here.

btw.......is someone taking a trip to japan during this investigation to speak with the scholarly authorities on the history of the buddhist temple where Kosho was to have originated, with the assistance of an unbiased translator?
or does the research begin and end in the USA?

shawn

But Shawn, if any of us answer your last paragraph we'll be getting off track again, LOL, just kidd'n, I see your point. To answer your last paragraph, this A&E Investigation is about martial arts in Hawaii, the Mitose link is just a small part of it, the kenpo part, other arts will be discussed. I don't think it was started to prove anything about Mitose one way or the other but was just tracing the origins of the arts in Hawaii, The Gateway. Shihan Mke Brown has taken several trips to Japan over the years. He would be the man to talk to. Respectfully, Professor Joe
 

KenpoPastor

Yellow Belt
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
34
Reaction score
1
BlackCatBonz said:
i just wanted to beat this horse some more.....purely for sport.
this thread has gone a wee bit off course by the slightest of margins. Kane merely asked as to the differences between the two.....not an argument on who spelled what, what way, or the A&E expose on mitose. Could we not, as a group of adults studying this martial art that we love, simply reply......Hey Kane, some groups spell it "kenpo" and other groups spell it "kempo". and there are some stylistic differences some might say too numerous to mention here.

I just read this whole darn thread waiting for someone to post this. I just wanted to make sure someone made this point I was begining to feel a moral obligation to make this point if no one else did.

It took 8 pages and exactly 2 months to get here. I just hope that Kane wasn't discouraged from Kenpo or Kempo because of our petty bickering. This just goes to show how blinding our assumptions can be.

_don
 
M

MisterMike

Guest
Was there a specific set of techniques passed on between Mitose, Chow and the resulting lineages? Or was kem/npo taught less systematically back then?

I know several of the resulting lineages under Chow, like Parker Kenpo have very set systems of techniques. It was also commented that the "Americanized" versions of Kem/npo are more advanced/practical to today's times. Is this due to that systematizing?

I've never seen Mitose's book or anything written by Chow. Were these attempts at cataloging Kem/npo? Was it an abstract art?

A lot of questions, I know ;)

Thanks,
 

kelly keltner

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
516
Reaction score
11
Location
Sacramento,Ca
KenpoPastor said:
I just read this whole darn thread waiting for someone to post this. I just wanted to make sure someone made this point I was begining to feel a moral obligation to make this point if no one else did.

It took 8 pages and exactly 2 months to get here. I just hope that Kane wasn't discouraged from Kenpo or Kempo because of our petty bickering. This just goes to show how blinding our assumptions can be.

_don
I thought I kinda covered that in post #83.
That was my point exactly.
kk
 

dianhsuhe

Blue Belt
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
296
Reaction score
5
Location
San Diego Area
OK I'll bite....

Whatever happened to the A&E doc.? Pretty crazy thread, But I still enjoy all the information-


I do admit I have a pet peave, I know most high ranking martial artits do not care about titles but can't we agree to refer to them at least by "Mr." if not their actual title (if known) I believe they have earned it!

Reading posts to "John" (Mr. John Bishop), "Bruce" (Mr. Bruce Juchnik) or especially "Chow" (Professor Chow) is just sad- Would you refer to them that way in person?

Anyhow, great thread- have a great holiday wekend everybody!
James
 

BlackCatBonz

Master Black Belt
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
1,233
Reaction score
35
Location
Port Hope ON
dianhsuhe said:
OK I'll bite....

Whatever happened to the A&E doc.? Pretty crazy thread, But I still enjoy all the information-


I do admit I have a pet peave, I know most high ranking martial artits do not care about titles but can't we agree to refer to them at least by "Mr." if not their actual title (if known) I believe they have earned it!

Reading posts to "John" (Mr. John Bishop), "Bruce" (Mr. Bruce Juchnik) or especially "Chow" (Professor Chow) is just sad- Would you refer to them that way in person?

Anyhow, great thread- have a great holiday wekend everybody!
James
i think that the really great martial artists of our time arent so hung up on their titles that you cant refer to them by their first name outside the dojo.
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
33
As a general rule are'nt they our elders? (except of course for John Bishop). Don't you refer to your elder with respect??
 

Dreamer

White Belt
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I was hoping someone can help answer a couple of questions that I have. I recently saw the article about Grandmaster Sam Kuoha in Inside Kung Fu (February 2006). In the opening picture of the article, Grandmaster Kuoha is striking his opponent with a right elbow. The opposing "uke" has a hugh "emblem" on his back that includes the words in red: "DIAN-HSUHE." (Great article BTW)

I've read online on different sites where DIAN-HSUHE was the name of Professor William K.S. Chow's style of kenpo in the 1940's. I read on a website where Professor Chow named his early kenpo style, Dian Hsuhe Go Shinjutsu Kenpo Kai Karate.

I have not come across anyone who even talks about or demonstrates Dian-Hsuhe. A friend on the east coast mentioned that he thinks Master Bill Chun Jr. (Go Shin JitsuKai Chinese Kenpo) of Califoria talked about it before and does know Dian-Hsuhe. He's seen Master Chun over a handful of times over the last five to six years, starting with The Gathering in Vegas (2000).

I have not been able to find much more about this style of kenpo. What does Dian-Hsuhe mean? What is Dian-Hsuhe? Is there a difference between Dian-Hsuhe and Kara-Ho? My friend thinks Master Chun might be the only one who knows Dian-Hsuhe since it appears that style was Professor Chow's early kenpo (plus Master Chun's kenpo name is practically the same as Professor Chow's early kenpo). Is he correct? Anyone on the east coast teach Dian-Hsuhe?

Thanks for helping end my curiosity
 

dianhsuhe

Blue Belt
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
296
Reaction score
5
Location
San Diego Area
Dreamer- Good question...

Dian-Hsuhe means "vital hit points" or vital striking points and is not a martial art unto itself. This represents the striking areas in Kara-Ho Kempo. You might also be able to see the Fist holding the Thunderbolt on our patch, obviously representing Professor Chow.

"I've read online on different sites where DIAN-HSUHE was the name of Professor William K.S. Chow's style of kenpo in the 1940's. I read on a website where Professor Chow named his early kenpo style, Dian Hsuhe Go Shinjutsu Kenpo Kai Karate."

This blurb is accurate as far as I know, Professor Chow used several names for his style of Kempo before finally naming his system "Chinese Kempo of Kara-Ho Karate" prior to his death in 1987. Master Bill Chun Jr. inherited the Go Shin Jitsu Kai system from his father and I believe it is now referred to as the "Chow/Chun System". It is also worth mentioning that the systems are pretty different reflecting Professor Chow's innovations over the years-

There is quite a bit of information on the Kara-Ho patch actually...

Kara-Ho means the unity of spirit, mind, soul and body.

Hope this helps at least a little- Also, Grandmaster Kuoha is on this forum occasionally if you do a search for, "Kara-Ho" or "Kuoha" you will find quite a bit of information on our system.

Take care,
James
 

Dreamer

White Belt
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
dianhsuhe: (Way cool screen name!)

Thanks a whole bunch for explaining what Dian-Hsuhe means and also explaining what Kara-Ho means. I can imagine the vital striking points that you might hit or strike… You mentioned that Kara-Ho and Chow/Chun System are pretty different reflecting Professor Chow’s innovation over the years. (It sounds like what you’re saying is that Professor Chow’s kempo evolved into something different from that which he initially created…makes a lot of sense...Bruce Lee's JKD evolved over time as did Parker's Kenpo) Are you able to elaborate on what makes the difference? (This is interesting...)

Your triangle insignia (where KARA-HO is written on top in red) is very interesting and unique with what appears to be a heart in the middle. What is the meaning to your insignia (or patch)? Does it signify what you mentioned what Kara-Ho means: unity of spirit, mind, soul and body? I think that the Fist holding the Thunderbolt patch is also TOO COOL. I can imagine one feeling really proud to wear that patch besides the fact you are learning or practicing Professor Chow’s (& Grandmaster Kuoha’s) kempo.

Thanks for educating me…I will do a search on the other threads to learn more.
 

gmkuoha

Orange Belt
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
89
Reaction score
5
Dreamer said:
dianhsuhe: (Way cool screen name!)

Thanks a whole bunch for explaining what Dian-Hsuhe means and also explaining what Kara-Ho means. I can imagine the vital striking points that you might hit or strike You mentioned that Kara-Ho and Chow/Chun System are pretty different reflecting Professor Chows innovation over the years. (It sounds like what youre saying is that Professor Chows kempo evolved into something different from that which he initially createdmakes a lot of sense...Bruce Lee's JKD evolved over time as did Parker's Kenpo) Are you able to elaborate on what makes the difference? (This is interesting...)


I'mmmmmm Bacccck! Sorry for all the things I have been missing, but things have gotten out of control here with work and you can all read about it on our website under "Thunderflash".
First of all let us not be mistaken...Bill Chun Sr. was a 5th dan under Professor Chow and was an upstanding student/instructor in Professor Chow's system and had he stayed in contact would have probably been the leader of his system today, however in the last 10-15 years of Professor Chow's life MR. Chun Sr. had some personal issues in California along with some health issues and therefore had not been in contact with Professor Chow (this was told to me by Professor Chow). During the times that I trained with Professor Chow..he would bring out various scrap papers, napkins, paper placemats from Chinese Restuarants and start to teach me various things like muliple attacks (when something entered his mind, he would write it down and draw pictures of the movements no matter where he was and even that was passed on to me as I also did the same). He stated that no one had ever learned these prior so we put it to tests. It was grueling and tough but made more sense then I could ever imagine. He told me that if any of my instructors ever reach the rank of 2nd degree black belt...then I could start to teach them these things as it appears and trains like you had started another system all over again and it was very demanding. I guess at that time he thought that I might never have an accomplished instructor that would ever obtain that rank...but now I do have several throughout the world that has given up what I did in my ealier years to acheive these goals. If you get ahold of the Feb '06 issue of IKF magazine, it talks about what type of training these instructors have had to go through to learn these arts and it can be referred to as: "Dian Hshue" or vital hit points because when defending against multiple attackers, you have to rapidly strke a vital area and move on as you do not have time to waste on just one person and instantly disabling each opponent as you quickly move on to the next.

I also read on this forum about giving credit where credit is due by referring to our seniors by their title instead of their first names. I have always done that as a sign of respect whether or not they are in or out of the dojo. I even refer to my instructors as Sensei's, because I feel if they have been able to accomplish and obtain that rank...they are derserving of that title, even from me. I refer to my physician as "doctor" everytime I see him and I imagine more then not have done the same or Professor from a college or something like that. What would be the difference in the arts? These are people that have given their entire life to make us better so why should'nt we refer them to their title, if nothing else for sheer respect as a professional. As I tell my students if they were in terrible trouble on the street and I was there, would they want my help and if the answer is yes...then I would be considered their instructor all the time and not just in the dojo or kwon. Hope this helped!
Grandmaster Kuoha
 

Latest Discussions

Top