democrats name calling again...

Empty Hands

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Since the right's "ideology" IS THE TRUTH, then yes, they said all those things, all of which were true, to advance thier ideology......

A truly remarkable assertion, coming from the people who brought you torture, indefinite detention without trial, and extraordinary rendition, all of which took place in secrecy.

Are you interested in buying a bridge?
 

granfire

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A few more points these reality-distorting apologetics ignore:

If the economy is the concern, right now is the worst possible time for austerity measures. The result will be slowed economic recovery and slower job growth. Which results in less revenues leading to the need for even more cuts. Brilliant thinking again.

This is not a budget debate. This is an appropriation to pay for debt already incurred. This debt has been spent already, already signed into law by a previous congress. This action amounts to sending your house keys back to the bank and walking away. It is refusing to pay your credit card bill, already charged. It is default, refusing to pay for what you've already spent. When refusing to pay your bills involves poor people walking away from their homes they can no longer afford, then the Tea Party has nothing but scorn and outrage. Now that they want the government to do the exact same thing, suddenly it's an exalted stand.

It's dishonorable. It's stupid.

It's driven by ideology and a desire to dismantle the government by any means, not by economics. The economics have been abundantly clear these past weeks.

It's treason and criminal....
 

MaxiMe

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Soime simple steps to help fix it.
1. remove the bars from inside the halls of congres. (they may ALL be sober next time they vote).
2. Retro grade their retirement packages comenserate with time served. (If you only hold office for 2 years. you get retirement until you die just doesn't sound right to me)
3. go to the gas station and fill up like the rest of us do. Drive yourself no more limos and drivers.
4. buy your own plane tickets and quit hitching rides on govmt aircraft that are not going your direction.
5. Get an HMO or PPO like the rest of us pay your co-pay as well.
6. Have your employers (the citizens) approve your raise or not.
7. Mandatory retirement after 20 or 30 years served (How long was Strom or Ted around again?? a bazillion years).
8. Ya only get 3 weeks vacation and 1 week sick time a year (then they might have to acctually work for a living).
9. 30 minute lunch and 2 10 minute breaks for ever 8 hrs worked (we'll let ya have the weekends off, mostly so ya can't pull a fast one on us late friday night).
10. Car allowance and no more company owned and maintained car (you take it to the shop when it breaks and use your vacation/sick time).


Crap it aint rocket seince, just do what the rest of us do everyday.
 
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billc

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Since the debt service was never in jeapordy to begin with the democrats holding up the debate because they just want to keep spending is the problem. The threats against seniors, the military and anyone else that the democrats use as human shields to their spending is the real crime. Remember, more than enough money comes in every month to service the debt. The tea party wanted 2 dollars in cuts for every dollar in the debt limit increase. Wow, I'm surprised they didn't just detonate their suicide vests over that extreme demand. The cut,cap and balance approach was sensible and mild compared to what we are going to face when these politicians aren't stopped.
 
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billc

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A little commentary on the cartoonist who imagines Obama sending in SEALS to kill tea party members:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/319571.php

f
rom the article:

So, let's see-- in that one paragraph, Tea Party Congressmen are compared to 1, Nazi totalitarians, 2, Islamist totalitarians, and 3, Communist totalitarians.
Incidentally, America has gone to war with all three groups.
Does anyone in the media notice this? Or are they having too much fun making the comparisons to realize how breathtakingly contradictory and self-serving they're being?
In a blog post, John Podhoretz notices.
Jonah Goldberg s a remarkable rant about press bias over at National Review Online you really have to read. [I linked it earlier-- ace] He takes on the fact that liberal commentators and liberal politicals now feel entirely free to refer to conservative Republicans, especially those aligned with the Tea Party, as terrorists, jihadists, thugs, dictators, and the like, without fearing the consequences of media blowback. But I’m struck by a quality shared by all those who engage in increasingly uncontrolled rhetoric about the role of the members of Congress who opposed a debt-ceiling increase and any deal: They sound impotent.They are hurling violent words at the people they dislike because they cannot believe their own arguments are not winning the day....
It isn’t, of course. These words are tossed about because the people who speak them are becoming aware of the fact that they have lost the national argument they believed they had won in 2008. They are revealing themselves as losers, sore losers, bad losers. And Joe Nocera, Paul Krugman, Fareed Zakaria, and others aren’t making arguments.
Again, it must be underlined that Gabby Giffords, the wounded woman said to have been shot due to such angry talk, just returned to Congress today, and even that poignant fact is not enough to cause a single liberal a moment of introspection and self-evaluation.
 
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billc

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On the rhetoric of tax increases, by Jonah Goldberg:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/272462/terminology-taxation-jonah-goldberg#

F
rom the article:

Ask almost any Republican politician, from lobster-roll-eating northeastern “RINOs” (Republicans in name only) to flinty, leather-skinned westerners with calluses on their trigger fingers, to explain why high
taxes
are bad, and they’ll do a pretty good job of selling it.
Ask almost any Democrat to explain why high taxes are bad, and you will get hit with the velvet fog, minus the velvet. First they’ll explain that while they do favor “increasing revenues,” they don’t favor higher taxes if by “high taxes” you mean taxes that are “too high.” They favor “smart” tax rates that are “targeted” (i.e., “higher”). Then they’ll explain that they don’t want to raise your taxes; they want to raise taxes on your boss, your employer, and the companies that sell you gas,
cars
, cigarettes, food, clothes, electricity, and various “unnecessary” surgical procedures. They leave out that those taxes get passed on to you.
Then, they’ll rush to safer territory: all of the wonderful things government does. Government, don’t you know, is just the word we use for all the things we do together. So every time you cut a check to the IRS, an angel gets its wings.
 
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billc

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Here is Jonah Goldberg on the name calling:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/273444/hell-you-people-jonah-goldberg

F
rom the article:

So flashforward to this week. Tom Friedman — who knows a bit about Hezbollah — calls the tea partiers the “Hezbollah faction” of the GOP bent on taking the country on a “suicide mission.” All over the place, conservative Republicans are “hostage takers” and “terrorists,” “terrorists” and “traitors.” They want to “end life as we know it on this planet,” says Nancy Pelosi. They are betraying the Founders, too. Chris Matthews all but signs up for the “Make an *** of Yourself” contest at the State Fair. Joe Nocera writes today that “the Tea Party Republicans can put aside their suicide vests.” Lord knows what Krugman and Olbermann have said.
Then last night, on the very day Gabby Giffords heroically returns to cast her first vote since that tragic attack seven months ago, the vice president of the United States calls the Republican party a bunch of terrorists.
No one cares. I hate the “if this were Bush” game so we’re in luck. Instead imagine if this wasDick Cheney calling the Progressive Caucus (or whatever they’re called) a “bunch of terrorists” on the day Giffords returned to the Congress. Would the mainstream media notice or care? Would Meet the Press debate whether this raises “troubling questions” about the White House’s sensitivity? Would Andrea Mitchell find some way to blame Sarah Palin for Dick Cheney’s viciousness? Would Keith Olbermann explode like a mouse subjected to the Ramone’s music in Rock and Roll High School? Something inside me hidden away shouts, “Hell yes they would!”
 

jks9199

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Neither party -- and damn few members of Congress individually -- have clean hands over this debacle. Their insistence on playing political brinksmanship with each other, with eyes on the next election, brought us to the absolute verge of default, and simply delayed resolution. We still don't have a budget for the current fiscal year, let alone significant progress for the next. And we never had one for the last.

They aren't doing their damn job. I'm on the verge of simply voting for the most nutbar fringe person I can -- even if I have to write 'em in -- for every election for the next several years. Run 'em all out, put the admitted and obvious loons in, and who knows, they may actually do some good. Hell, maybe we need to start drafting federal elected officials so that anyone who actually wants the job can't get it.
 
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David43515

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Some Republicans used the threat of national default with all the attendant known and unknown consequences as a means to advance their ideology. That is not in rational dispute. Lost jobs, skyrocketing interest rates, a possible economic collapse due to default - all of these things are of more import to the American people than some people calling other people mean names.

Don't want to be called a terrorist or a hostage-taker? Don't act like one.

So let me get this straight. If you think that spending more and more and more is good, and you are unwilling to look at any possibility of cutting spending on certain programs like high speed rail systems that no one wants or a stimulous package that arguably made lots of things worse.....you`re doing the nation`s business. Where as if you say that you won`t suport a bill that you honestly beleive will cost more money (that the govt doesn`t have) and make the situation worse you`re just "advancing an ideology" and acting like a terrorist, right? Got it.

I`ll have to remember to use that one the next time one of my daughters wants me to commit to spending money we don`t have on something we can`t afford. If I say "no" I`m acting like a terrorist.
 

granfire

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So let me get this straight. If you think that spending more and more and more is good, and you are unwilling to look at any possibility of cutting spending on certain programs like high speed rail systems that no one wants or a stimulous package that arguably made lots of things worse.....you`re doing the nation`s business. Where as if you say that you won`t suport a bill that you honestly beleive will cost more money (that the govt doesn`t have) and make the situation worse you`re just "advancing an ideology" and acting like a terrorist, right? Got it.

I`ll have to remember to use that one the next time one of my daughters wants me to commit to spending money we don`t have on something we can`t afford. If I say "no" I`m acting like a terrorist.

Normally you'd be right.
But they have been sitting around with their fingers up their.....
for 3 years now. Just so they could bombard any meaningful anything.
The tax cuts they don't give up, the cuts they demand to get from those who can't afford to lose any more...

The 'let's stick it to them' kind of politics is really criminal! Instead of high fiving each other they ought to be whipped and flogged!
Kids in the sand box get send home when they behave that badly.

And no, neither side is free of guilt!

I would not have called them terrorists, though hostage taker is pretty apt.
I would have called the US attorney on them.
Putting the nation in this situation ought to constitute high treason!
 
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billc

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Three years...hmmm...it seems as though the democrats were in control of the white house and congress for two years and still have not submitted a budget. The republicans have, the democrats haven't. The "budget process," only works when someone actually tries to submit a budget. Once again, the democrats threatened seniors, the military and all sorts of other groups if they didn't get their way. Who was holding who hostage? The plan the tea party wanted would have increased the debt ceiling one dollar in exchange for two dollars in spending cuts, and yet they were the terrorists? The republicans submitted cut cap and balance and the democrats refused to pass it.

voting in any nut is exactly what the establishment politicians want. They know that they won't win and they will stay in office. It is very important to vote in the primaries and remove all the politiicians who have been there too long. The primaries are the key, that is how you take things back. Vote out politicians who have already served, maybe, two terms in the house and one in the senate. Clean the place out. Get rid of the leadership of both parties and we'll start from scratch.
 
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billc

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This is a response to a Pajamasmedia article that points out what was achieved in this debt deal: http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/2011/08/02/why-is-the-tea-party-complaining/

5. Kipling
If we won, then what did the Democrats actually lose? They got a spending increase. The cuts are not real cuts because they are only cuts in the projected spending increases – not actual cuts in expenditures. The Left got a super commission that will lead to tax increases or the crippling of our defense budget. Harry Reid told NPR that Boehner and McConnell agreed that “revenue increases” would be a part of any measure coming out of the commission. Mr. Obama gets to spend more money to buy more votes and Boehner and McConnell look like chumps for undermining their own legislation. Not to mention that we will face a loss in our credit rating because the whole debt ceiling compromise is a fraud.
I am not sure the republic can stand many more victories like this one.
 

crushing

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You do realize that the debt ceiling has been raised under every single president since it was introduced in 1917, including 8 times by GWB, right?

According to Politifact, it was *only* 7 times.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...says-reagan-raised-debt-ceiling-18-times-geo/

"There were seven increases between January 2001 and January 2009 -- during George W. Bush's presidency. We should also note that it has been raised three times already under President Obama, on Feb. 17, 2009, Dec. 28, 2009 and Feb. 12, 2010."

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills," Obama said before a March 16, 2006, vote on raising the debt limit. The Senate narrowly approved raising the limit along partisan lines, 52-48, with all Democrats opposed.

People looking at the number of times it was raised may be why Obama wanted the "grand deal" and was willing to destroy the economy in order to not have to raise it again next year, especially with it being an election year. Some may equate his obstinate deal breaking stance as hostage taking or try to equate it to terrorism, but that just sounds ridiculous, except maybe to the partisan loyal opposition.
 

Empty Hands

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So let me get this straight. If you think that spending more and more and more is good, and you are unwilling to look at any possibility of cutting spending on certain programs like high speed rail systems that no one wants or a stimulous package that arguably made lots of things worse.....you`re doing the nation`s business. Where as if you say that you won`t suport a bill that you honestly beleive will cost more money (that the govt doesn`t have) and make the situation worse you`re just "advancing an ideology" and acting like a terrorist, right? Got it.

I`ll have to remember to use that one the next time one of my daughters wants me to commit to spending money we don`t have on something we can`t afford. If I say "no" I`m acting like a terrorist.

In your analogy, you've already spent the money on your daughter and the bill arrives. Which you then refuse to pay because "you can't afford it." You should have thought of that before you spent it.

Honorable people pay their bills.
 
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billc

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No one was going to default on the debt, that was a scare tactic to push this through while trying to stampede the republicans into tax increases which would have damaged them with their base. It didn't work because the tea party stood up to their own party to hold the line. The deal is still bad, but increasing taxes would have made it even worse.
 

RandomPhantom700

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No one was going to default on the debt, that was a scare tactic to push this through while trying to stampede the republicans into tax increases which would have damaged them with their base. It didn't work because the tea party stood up to their own party to hold the line. The deal is still bad, but increasing taxes would have made it even worse.

And in this narrative, the brave, noble Tea Partiers wield lightsabers and bolster the resolve of the bleaguered, failing Old Republic(an) Party who's under constant attack by the evil, corrupting Demoncratic Sith and its cowardly Emperor Obamatine. Your call where the Wookies factor in.

Edit: How could I forget this?! :jediduel:
 
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