Defending against multiple dogs

[someguy]

OK so we have protecting yourself against multiple people and protecting yourself from dogs so how about protecting youself from multiple dogs.
I actually have a reason to ask this as I saw a pack of dogs today not far from me and they didn't have an owner so I had to ask my self what I would do. I came to the conlusion that I'd be in trouble. It would not be easy to fight as I'm not sure how I'd use muuch of anything against 2+ dogs other than kicks.
So how would you do it? (I don't carry a wepon and there isn't much I could have grabed for)

 

[Gary Crawford]

carry some raw meat!

 

[loki09789]

OK so we have protecting yourself against multiple people and protecting yourself from dogs so how about protecting youself from multiple dogs.
I actually have a reason to ask this as I saw a pack of dogs today not far from me and they didn't have an owner so I had to ask my self what I would do. I came to the conlusion that I'd be in trouble. It would not be easy to fight as I'm not sure how I'd use muuch of anything against 2+ dogs other than kicks.
So how would you do it? (I don't carry a wepon and there isn't much I could have grabed for)

Pepper Spray (as it was originally marketted for) and constant motion! A little praying wouldn't hurt!

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Jump in and start pounding. You'll get bit, just the same way you can expect a nip or 2 against a knife. But dogs aren't stupid. Punch them in the head soundly a couple of times, or kick them in the gut or chops, and they'll identify you as not-so-easy prey, and move on. Generally, they don't want to have to work that hard for their meals

 

[Tony]

Dogs are tricky to defence against because they use mostly their teeth to attack with. And some Dogs because they are trained for security purposes or even fighting other dogs are extremely vicious. I have found in my experience runnin away always helps. I have a phobia about dogs and can hardly stroke a poodle let a lone anything larger.

 

[someguy]

I don't think I can out run a dog. I run slooooooooooooow.
Pepper spray is something I'd have to carry around constantly to have it do me any good although it would help. I'd probably forget it the day I needed it.
AS for jumping right on in what type of teqs would I use is what I have asked myself. I do a system of wing chun which means I have focused more on punching that kicking(not allways the case maybe but for me it is). But how would a dog pack tend to attack? Anybody here know?

 

[TonyM.]

Ya gotta make the alpha dog yelp, then the others will loose confidence. Teeth are scary but as long as the dogs mouths are open they're not tearing flesh. To open their mouths you have to grab the throat or hit the stomach.
A number of years ago in Portland Maine I was vacationing with my wife. We had brought our female chow along. The wife was in a shop when the dog and I crossed the road to meet her, fourteen stray dogs came around the corner and attacked my dog and myself. I was grabbing fur and kicking stomachs. Took about a minute and a half to pull and throw all the dogs off my dog. Than goodness chows have very thick fur as although she was soaked with saliva there were very few puntures. I amazingly did not get bit, which I was glad for as I've been bitten once before badly. I think I surprised them as I was quiet and showed no emotion as I was picking them up and throwing them, kicking them and grabbing fur. About the time I got them to back off the luny homeless person that lived on the docks and cared for over forty strays came around the corner with twelve more dogs and a bucket of fish bait. He scolded the dogs for being impolite and left. I heard later he ran for mayor and nearly won. Fortunately I don't think I seriously hurt any of the dogs.

 

[rompida]

I can speak of some personal experience here, although not on mutliple dogs. I was attacked by a pitbull-rottweiler mix a few years ago. I was completely caught off guard.

I went to a girl's house to borrow her notes from our psych class. When I knocked, she cracked the door and said "hi, just hold on a minute". Meanwhile, the dog had shoved his nose in the crack, so in order to get him back, she had to open the door slightly more. He didn't back up though. Instead, he muscled his way past her and lunged at my neck. I instinctively threw my arms in front of my face and he got ahold of my elbow instead. She grabbed the dog's hindquarters and pulled him back, but again he got free and came at me. This time I was a little more ready, so roundhouse kicked him in the head as hard as I could. The dog shook this off and came for more, this time getting a bite on my forearm. She finally got the dog off of me and managed to get him in the house. This dog took quite a chunk of skin and flesh off of my elbow. Bottom line.........don't underestimate the dog to run away from you.

Against multiple dogs, if they want you - there is a good chance they can get you. Hope you have pepper spray. My father has a 200 acre farm in SC. There are wild packs of dogs that have been abandoned and formed packs. They have taken down chickens, goats, beavers, and anything else (including other wild dogs) that they could find. They've been conditioned to run from us now (we've shot and killed a few) but I wouldn't want to run up on them without a shotgun.


p.s. Anyone still interested in the dog story........ I was the 4th person this dog had bitten. The second person had to have facial reconstructive surgery. Makes you wonder how this freakin dog was still alive to bite me. I was the last. He was put down shortly after by order of Animal Control.

 

[mandirigma]

Two dog incidents posted from the past year. Dogs can be TOUGH!
#1:
"Dog Attack:
"A colleague suffered a serious dog attack last week. He was a member of a bond enforcement team (bounty hunters) attempting to arrest a local bail jumper. He and two metro police officers went to the back of the house where the bail jumper was living to cut off escape routes, while the rest of the team went to the front door. As he moved around the house to the rear, the suspect opened the back door and released a large pit bull. The dog immediately charged across the back porch and, without hesitation, leapt directly at my colleague's throat!
The dog struck his raised left arm, fell to the ground, bounced back up, and, once more, lunged at his throat. He punched the dog in the head, knocking it back to the ground. He punched him down several more times, as he moved backward. Finally, the dog settled for a less advantageous line of attack and firmly attached his jaws to his right shin. He finally drew his SIG220 (230gr Speer Gold Dot), and shot the dog in the neck and shoulders four times in rapid succession. The dog let go, backed off, and then came at him again! My colleague, using his sights, immediately fired two more shots, this time into the head of the charging animal. The dog, struck in the head and face by both rounds, staggered and fell, DRT.
All six of the rounds found their mark. Five bullets stopped, fully expanded, in the dog. One, fully expanded, went through and through. The one that went through and through, exited (mostly spent) and then struck my colleague's right leg just above the in the ankle. The wound was not serious but did require surgery.
Metro officers who witnessed the event were amazed at the speed of my colleague's reaction. The first four rounds were fired so fast, witnesses all thought there were only two!"
Lesson: Most dog attacks end only when there is a fatality, yours or the dog's! It is no time for half measures. When tangled up with a dog, it is not hard to imagine getting a body part on line with a potential bullet exit point. No matter what happens, you have to keep fighting. As my friend and fellow instructor, Keith Jones, is fond of saying, "Pistol fights resemble fist fights much more than they do tactical, nuclear attacks!" When fighting in an emergency we must:
1) Distract our enemy's focus
2) Disrupt his plan
3) Disable his body
4) Destroy his will to fight
In the case of a pit bull, point four is accomplished only with the death of the animal."


#2:
"8 Sept 02

Shooting incident details from a friend on the East Coast:

"Our sheriff's department had its first shooting last week. It involved a dog, not a person.

Two of our deputies were executing an order of eviction on a residence. When no one responded to their knocks and calls, they had a local locksmith open the door. As the deputies entered the house, a 160 lb German Shepherd (which had remained silent) ran at the first deputy and leaped at his throat. Our deputy yanked his head aside in the nick of time. The dog's teeth closed on his shoulder instead of his throat. Our deputy performed a classic ‘shove/shoot' (which we train). He drew his G22 and fired a total of five shots (40 S&W 180-grain Gold Dot). All five bullets struck the dog's torso. None of the bullets exited the dog. All transverse penetrated and stopped, fully expanded, just under the dog's skin on the opposite side of its body. Because of his position, the second deputy was unable to shoot.

After being struck, the dog let go and ran outside, where he promptly attacked the locksmith's car! After running another hundred meters, the dog finally collapsed. He was DRT.

Our deputy's injuries were not serious, and, fully recovered, he is back on duty."

Lessons: Even the best pistols and ammunition provide only marginal protection against a determined attack by a person or an animal. We must all be fully prepared to strike the target multiple times in rapid succession when required.

In an emergency, you will do what you've been trained to do. If you haven't been trained at all, you'll likely panic and subsequently die in amazement."


Scenarios like this also show how valuable a good dog on your side can be!

Have a great day!
:asian:

 

[someguy]

So basiclly if I have to deal with multiple dogs either get lucky show no mercy and maybe win or lose and die. Fun fun fun.
Now what tecniques would a person use?
Grappleing is probably a bad idea I'd guess.

 

[kenpo12]

Oh My God! this again?! If you get attacked by multiple dogs you better just drop into a fetal position and hope they get bored.

Loki - Pepper spray only works on humans, you need OC spray for animals. But if you have a "pack" of dogs attacking you the pack mentality will take over and the discomfort of the spray will more than likely not stop them.

TonyM.- Sorry but it's kinda hard to figure out which dog is the alpha while you're trying to survive. In the case of the 14 dogs that attacked you and your chow, it doesn't sound like they were very committed because if they were I don't think you'd be worrying about if other dogs were injured.

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka - I know you aren't this ignorant, are you? A punch to the head of dog? Please! You will get maimed, if you're lucky, trying that.

mandirigma -Thank you for those stories. Like I always try to tell people, if you don't have a weapon against a dog and the dog is determined, alot of luck. Even a stick or pepper spray will only stop a half hearted attack, but if the dog is committed you have a serious problem.


If you see a pack of dogs; get up in a tree, into your house, into your car, grab a big stick and if none of those are an option and they do attack you, cover your vitals curl up in a fetal position and hope they get bored.

 

[RHD]

Multiple dogs? Do you have a living will? How about life insurance? Against one dog I would say use your voice first, and a basebal bat second. Multiple dogs...you're screwed.
Mike

 

[RCastillo]

Bring Animal Control with you. How can be any different that having Master Frank Trejo with you? :rofl:

 

[Buran]

We used to have a BIG, SWEET German Shepherd; I tried my wrestling moves on him. There's a kind of half-nelson/bear hug thing that worked on him. Later I met a friend that had a pit. That trick didn't work - I became convinced that animal was uncontrollable. They're just different.

What would I do? Probably run while taking off my belt, then whacking it several times with the buckle. You'd see me take a wall or tree if I had time...?

 

[Shotochem]

Against multiple beasties escape is the best course of action. If a single one attacks and you have no weapontry available. JAM you fist right down its throat and keep jamming it down until it chokes to death. I know it sounds quite brutal and disgusting. This technique was told to me by an old disabled vietnan vet friend. :ak47:

 

[kenpo12]

Against multiple beasties escape is the best course of action. If a single one attacks and you have no weapontry available. JAM you fist right down its throat and keep jamming it down until it chokes to death. I know it sounds quite brutal and disgusting. This technique was told to me by an old disabled vietnan vet friend. :ak47:

Won't work. You'll be pulling back a bloody stump if you try that, especially against a determined dog.

 

[clapping_tiger]

Kind of interesting thread, not really a common type of threat, but anything can happen. I think it would all be in the your mindset. If you freak out, which most of us would do, you still would have to realize that in a case like this it is your life or that of the dog/dogs. Animals have no remorse, or emotion like that, that would prevent them from not killing you. So no matter if it was one dog or multiple dogs, if you don't have pepper spray, or some other type of weapon you are going to have to hurt them bad, or kill them. You also have to realize that you are going to get pretty hurt yourself, but no matter what, you are going to be the one to come out alive. Dogs will always protect their throat, and that is also their main target that they will go for. If you can, try to boot them there as hard as you can. Or grab their throat and hold on for dear life. Whatever you do, DO NOT RUN AWAY. Instead if you can, back away. If you turn tail and run, that triggers the dogs instinct to chase you down, kind of like if they were hunting prey. Turning and running is probably the worst thing you could do in a dog attack situation. You have to establish dominance or the dog will think either you are prey, or you fall below them on their dominance scale.

 

[Gaidheal]

One dog? Kill it. Multiple dogs? Kill one, then the next, the next.. likely get hurt, but it's your best chance. Don't run, as is said above they will chase you down and they are always faster than you, unless it's a tiny dog.. in which case why are you running? Never hesitate. Once it's defence time, it's dead doggy time. Eyes is useful, just like with people. Crush the trachea if you can ('windpipe'), strikes to it will 'worry' the dog as well, possibly making it back off, probably making it slow down even if it keeps at it. If you get it right you can kick a spot on the ribcage that will always (assuming a minimum but easily achievable level of power) fold the ribcage and kill it within a minute (a minute during which it won't be doing anything but dying). However, I am not sure I can accurately describe where, I could show you, if you know what I mean.

Oh, as is clear, I don't like dogs. But with any animal attack; kill it, it's not a time to be even slightly soft.

John

P.S. Cats rule.

P.P.S. Someone asked "..how will they [a pack] attack?" they will encircle and dash in one at a time until one of them gets a good grip on you then all will "pile in" and take you down. They're just bastardized wolves (who are extremly unlikely to attack humans, by the way).

 

[RHD]

if [/B] you can ('windpipe'), strikes to it will 'worry' the dog as well, possibly making it back off, probably making it slow down even if it keeps at it. If you get it right you can kick a spot on the ribcage that will always (assuming a minimum but easily achievable level of power) fold the ribcage and kill it within a minute (a minute during which it won't be doing anything but dying). However, I am not sure I can accurately describe where, I could show you, if you know what I mean.

P.P.S. Someone asked "..how will they [a pack] attack?" they will encircle and dash in one at a time until one of them gets a good grip on you then all will "pile in" and take you down. They're just bastardized wolves (who are extremly unlikely to attack humans, by the way).

Oh boy...someone doesn't know jack about dogs...
Sorry man, this ain't going to work. But hey, I'd love see you try. On second thought, no I wouldn't.
Mike :roflmao:

 

[Marginal]

Never hesitate. Once it's defence time, it's dead doggy time. Eyes is useful, just like with people. Crush the trachea if you can ('windpipe'), strikes to it will 'worry' the dog as well, possibly making it back off, probably making it slow down even if it keeps at it.

What are these dogs doing? Crush their throats, gouge their eyes? Is this while they're lunging at you? That's an amazing demonstration of speed to get at the eyes without getting mauled. (Much less the throat.) Dogs are agile enough to alter the vector on their bites as they come to the point that taking them head on is really stupid. Especially the larger 100lb+ breeds.