Dash Cam: Canton PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk / Threatens

[Archangel M]

I find the tendency to make sweeping statements about law enforcement based on one video clip of one officer out of thousands..on one call out of hundreds of thousands problematic. If it were race or religion we were discussing instead of profession I wonder what the tone would be?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've got no problem with a professional law enforcement officer taking reasonable legal precautions for his or her own safety.

See the other video where the officer was polite and professional in the face of someone being a bit of a jerk in a carry situation.

Where I have a problem is with a hot heated bully, over reacting, throwing their "authority" around like a little Cartman, and making very unprofessional threats.

This *** hat is a "Cartman".

He needs a new profession.

 

[Tez3]

"you don't like" is indicative of an active personal aversion which is indicative of a very base mind, I neither like nor dislike police, I really don't care about them either way.

I do however see a problem with the general sheepish behaviour of the majority of society due to the blind acceptance that police always know best and can magically tell who the bad guys are. Most people are stricken by fear and dare not speak out against in-justice when it surfaces.

While you are not really asking what I believe and you probably don't really care what I believe, since I'm in the mood I shall tell you. I believe those that are not stricken by fear have a responsibility to speak up in an effort to help curtail the dangerous "above the law" and "I am always right" attitudes which can be so damaging to innocent people caught up in the middle of the war between Police and criminals.

The problem innocent civilians face is that real criminals take active steps to protect themselves from prosecution and police need to work very hard to pin them down whereas the majority of society rely on the foolish blind faith that because they are innocent they will saved from in-justice when in reality it merely leaves them more vulnerable. With innocent civilians naiveity compounded by the efforts needed to pin down real criminals, for the most part real criminals evade justice while the innocent are lambs to the slaughter.

You are correct. I don't care. Tarring everyone with the same brush doesn't interest me, nor does an attitude that you know better than everyone else, 'innocent, naive' public and 'big bad cops and robbers', pull the other one sunshine.

 

[Tez3]

"you don't like" is indicative of an active personal aversion which is indicative of a very base mind, I neither like nor dislike police, I really don't care about them either way.

I do however see a problem with the general sheepish behaviour of the majority of society due to the blind acceptance that police always know best and can magically tell who the bad guys are. Most people are stricken by fear and dare not speak out against in-justice when it surfaces.

While you are not really asking what I believe and you probably don't really care what I believe, since I'm in the mood I shall tell you. I believe those that are not stricken by fear have a responsibility to speak up in an effort to help curtail the dangerous "above the law" and "I am always right" attitudes which can be so damaging to innocent people caught up in the middle of the war between Police and criminals.

The problem innocent civilians face is that real criminals take active steps to protect themselves from prosecution and police need to work very hard to pin them down whereas the majority of society rely on the foolish blind faith that because they are innocent they will saved from in-justice when in reality it merely leaves them more vulnerable. With innocent civilians naiveity compounded by the efforts needed to pin down real criminals, for the most part real criminals evade justice while the innocent are lambs to the slaughter.

Double post lol, it wasn't interesting enough to warrent that!

 

[Brian King]

Bob,
The second video is of a different incident. Reading between the lines the officer made a stop, had a car full of people and while interviewing a passenger (drives position unoccupied door open and one subject (the driver) being escorted off screen in cuffs) saw a gun on the floor by the feet of one of the vehicles passengers. LOL this will usually raise the level of interest on the part of the officers involved. You can hear it in the officers voice as he asked dispatch to send another car as he has a gun in a vehicle full of people. As he is calling in one of the suspects moves prompting a forceful "don't move don't even fart wrong or something like that. You have an officer now having to watch the unsecured weapon that is very near a multiple people )"don't either of you move", while watching all of the people AND the neighborhood around them. Knowing that people who carry one weapon usually have more than one on them, and have shown a propensity for and perhaps a willingness to use weapons induces extreme caution and already having made an arrest of at least one vehicle occupant makes this an extremely dangerous situation. When dealing with idiots you often have to repeat several times in a language that they will understand that you will use force if need to. Using direct and personal language conveys not only the certainly that the office will use force but lets the suspect know that the force will be used on them. Watching the video you see the car bounce a bit and I assume it is as the one of the suspects nearest the gun is pulled from the vehicle, you hear the office say "give me a hand with this guy Joe" to another officer who hurries across the screen to the officers aid. This implies that the suspect is resisting. You have an officer asking for help, multiple armed resisting subjects. Use of force is justified. The officer you see not in a hurry has already seen multiple officers on the resisting subject (off camera) who is likely now in cuffs and disarmed. In fact you see an officer come into the screen with the firearm and lay it on the hood of the patrol car.

I have no problem with the video.

The officer's use of words would offend my grandmother (RIP) but not most felons who understand it. The officer is working in a very high crime area (not too many departments have seasoned officers riding together unless the area routinely calls for multiple eyes and 'guns' on stops. He seems to have a nose for picking out those that do not belong, are armed and breaking the law. Seems like a good street cop that needs to work on presentation. For his own health he needs to help in learning how not to personalize the idiots idiocy, and really needs to work on his professional comportment and letting go of upsets. No one is perfect and all can constantly improve. It is far easier teaching a good street cop how to cope than trying to teach a milk toast how to become a good street cop.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ahh, that perspective thing. I'll accept the bits of egg wash.:sp62:

 

[Brian King]

No need for eggs or penalty box Bob, in the first video the office was a jerk. No need to be such a jerk especially when the subject is cuffed and in the car. It is a temptation to lecture and it is a method of dealing with stress and adrenaline dumps but it is not a healthy release for the officer nor professional. In fact as civilians we have to watch getting blabber mouth (talking too much) when dealing with officers LOL they can only take notes so fast and we can talk ourselves into trouble.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This nominee for "Law Enforcement Officer of the Year" in the asshat category is at it again.

Canton Police Officer Daniel Harless scored a hat trick Thursday when a third dash cam video emerged showing him threatening to kill a citizen during a traffic stop.
The threats begin at 4:40 in the video where he eventually tells a citizen, "If you scratch you balls wrong, I’m going to pull my gun and I am going to shoot you.”


http://www.pixiq.com/article/canton-cop-threatens-to-kill-citizen-in-third-dash-cam-video

Here are some statements from the internal affairs report obtained by Canton Rep.

“Officer Harless’ conduct ... has brought disrepute upon himself and the Canton Police Department,” concludes a report by the internal affairs division, which the Law Department released to The Repository on Wednesday following a public records request.
“The volatile attitude that Officer Harless displays (during the traffic top) ... has gained negative national media attention towards these officers and the Canton Police Department,” the report adds.
“The Canton Police Department’s operation and efficiency has been impaired due to negative phone calls and emails that have been fielded by its members (regarding the case),” the report says.
​

Harless will face a hearing on September 7 that will determine his fate.

If past investigations are indicative of the trend in Canton, it'll involve sitting in a corner and holding the wrist that was just slapped.

 

[JohnEdward]

I would never want to be a cop in Canton Ohio, and work in the area Harless does. I do see Harless's situation. I understand why he behaved they way he did. He isn't not giving traffic tickets to speeders in high end neighborhoods. From both videos he is dealing with criminals in a high crime area. Criminals, druggies, etc. are stupid. What is this guy doing carrying a concealed weapon in a car with a pimp and a prostitute? Think about it, that is pretty stupid. The "john" the driver probably isn't new to hiring a street prostitute. You have to look at the whole picture. Also. I agree you have to talk to low lives and handle them in a certain way, in their language, in a way their world works so they understand you, and will respond and respect you. You can't let them think they have control or you are controllable. Low life criminals do play games, they do lie and are unpredictable and dangerously stupid, they don't want to get caught. Harless does tell the prostitute he will give her lumps, he is speaking to her in a way she is accustom to. And he does that during the whole incident. He is clearly upset that a "john" who has in his car both the pimp and the prostitute carrying a legal conceal weapon, and rightfully so. Why is the "john", the driver, have a gun while picking up criminals? Did the pimp and the prostitute know he had a concealed gun? What was the intention of a man hiring a street prostitute in a bad part of town leaving the house with a gun? Who allows the pimp as well in the car. That is stupid. If Harless didn't stop them, would he have come across any of them later shot to death? Again Harless isn't dealing with a stressed out soccer Mom running late to her kids game who broke the speed limit by 5 miles an hour in they best part of town. Harless is in a whole different and more dangerous stupid world, a world I won't be caught dead in. I don't admonish Harless, or see him as an SOB out of control, unless he acted that way to the example of a soccer Mom speeding in the good part of town. Now I could be wrong and Harless does work in a low crime area, and that changes everything. Second thought maybe not. Unless his trying to keep scum out of a good place to live. It is a hard call.

 

[JohnEdward]

Now if Harless was a TSA agent or a flight attendant....ship his butt off to making license plates. :lol2:

 

[Mark L]

19 posts later and the bottom line is, officer safety first, next, if you have a license for anything, know the law pertaining to that license. "I didn't see the stop sign", will not grant you a free pass. An officer telling you to shut up is an order to obey. Having a loaded firearm on your person and not telling them over the order to shut up is stupid. Stupid anything, can get you, or someone else hurt. The thing that frost me is the fact, there are people carrying guns around, that don't have a clue how, when, and where to use that firearm. Officers are people and people make mistakes. I am not condoning this in any way, but the officers have a job to do, and when stopped for what ever, help them do their job by you helping them to feel as safe as possible. Points back to first sentence, officer safety first. This my friend is as much you're job as it is theirs. Officers screwed up on this stop and acted unprofessional "yes", lessons to be learned from this, "double yes".

I disagree. Officer safety is the responsibility of the Officer, protecting our rights as citizens to not suffer this kind of abuse is as much our job as it is theirs.

 

[JohnEdward]

I have another thought, I am willing to bet the "john" needed to go through the experience with Harless, to re-think his stupid behavior. I am betting the drive got carried a gun around with him because he frequently engaged in criminal activity, and thought by getting a legal permit he could carry a gun for that purpose legally. Just because you have a concealed weapon's permit, it is doesn't mean you can be irresponsible, reckless or stupid. The driver must have missed that day in the course. My issue how do you not issue conceal carry permits to jackwagons and criminals (those not caught) like the driver. Really, that was a real stupid thing to be in a car with a gun, prostitute and a pimp. Again with Harless your environment dictates your behavior, in both instances on video Harless dealing people who have adopted criminal behavior and lifestyles. Who speak and live the street. I can't judge him until I walk in his shoes. Again Harless isn't TSA taking to passengers that way. I am reserving judgement on Harless. I hope he scared straight that "john" because sadly that what it takes for some people to stop doing stupid things, or deadly things.

 

[MA-Caver]

Neither officer stated an intent or desire to shoot the driver.

At 8:21 of the video the cop said: "Right now, the **** you just pulled I could blast you right in the mouth" , 8:51 "I am so close to caving in your goddamned head", 9:07 Do you want me to pull mine and stick it to your head?", 13:30 "I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I shoulda taken two steps back, pulled my glock 40, and just put ten bullets in your *** and let you drop.", 13:53 (referring to the other officer) "And he would've been a nice witness as I executed you, because you're stupid.". So my question is that while it's not a direct threat does that negate the potential of an implied threat? The man is handcuffed (hands in the rear as SOP calls for) and in the backseat of the cruiser and his own weapon is on the trunk of his car. Someone (cop or not) angrily shouting at you and making implied "would, could, should've" threats... while basically defenseless is a pretty scary situation.
Granted the guy was lying out of his *** about being in the area and why he was with those two people. Harless recognized the woman and knew her vocation. The guy simply was trying to get out of a illegal solicitation of prostitution charge (or however it's worded). Thus I agree he was rightfully detained. As noted it was stupid to obey the "shut-up" command given by the other officer and clearly and loudly state that he had a CWP and was armed.
Still the aggravated officer was unable it seems to get himself under control and verbally abused the "suspect".
I will also agree that sometimes you have to "speak their language", cursing, and being aggressive to ensure that there is no loss of control of the "situation" but not of one's self.
I do appreciate that the officers were hyped up/high alert given the area they were in. (Street) prostitutes aren't known for working nice areas of town in any city.
The guy was wrong for not asserting himself to ensure the officers were notified quickly of his CWP and armed status, disobeying the command to silence.
As to why he was armed in a bad neighborhood and consorting with criminals... well, common sense says better to be armed than unarmed when in a potentially dangerous area. But common sense says much better altogether NOT to be in those areas, particularly after dark.

He needs a new profession.

And pray tell what profession would that be? Hopefully you're not thinking anything involving "public relations."

The officer's use of words would offend my grandmother (RIP) but not most felons who understand it. The officer is working in a very high crime area (not too many departments have seasoned officers riding together unless the area routinely calls for multiple eyes and 'guns' on stops. He seems to have a nose for picking out those that do not belong, are armed and breaking the law. Seems like a good street cop that needs to work on presentation. For his own health he needs to help in learning how not to personalize the idiots idiocy, and really needs to work on his professional comportment and letting go of upsets. No one is perfect and all can constantly improve. It is far easier teaching a good street cop how to cope than trying to teach a milk toast how to become a good street cop.
Regards
Brian King

Agreed. Just sad that the video went viral and casts a very bad light on a lot of good cops.

I would never want to be a cop in Canton Ohio, and work in the area Harless does. I do see Harless's situation. I understand why he behaved they way he did. He isn't not giving traffic tickets to speeders in high end neighborhoods. From both videos he is dealing with criminals in a high crime area. Criminals, druggies, etc. are stupid. What is this guy doing carrying a concealed weapon in a car with a pimp and a prostitute? Think about it, that is pretty stupid. The "john" the driver probably isn't new to hiring a street prostitute. You have to look at the whole picture. Also. I agree you have to talk to low lives and handle them in a certain way, in their language, in a way their world works so they understand you, and will respond and respect you. You can't let them think they have control or you are controllable. Low life criminals do play games, they do lie and are unpredictable and dangerously stupid, they don't want to get caught. Harless does tell the prostitute he will give her lumps, he is speaking to her in a way she is accustom to. And he does that during the whole incident. He is clearly upset that a "john" who has in his car both the pimp and the prostitute carrying a legal conceal weapon, and rightfully so. Why is the "john", the driver, have a gun while picking up criminals? Did the pimp and the prostitute know he had a concealed gun? What was the intention of a man hiring a street prostitute in a bad part of town leaving the house with a gun? Who allows the pimp as well in the car. That is stupid. If Harless didn't stop them, would he have come across any of them later shot to death? Again Harless isn't dealing with a stressed out soccer Mom running late to her kids game who broke the speed limit by 5 miles an hour in they best part of town. Harless is in a whole different and more dangerous stupid world, a world I won't be caught dead in. I don't admonish Harless, or see him as an SOB out of control, unless he acted that way to the example of a soccer Mom speeding in the good part of town. Now I could be wrong and Harless does work in a low crime area, and that changes everything. Second thought maybe not. Unless his trying to keep scum out of a good place to live. It is a hard call.

The guy driving the car was an idiot for putting himself in that situation with the pimp and hooker in that neighborhood and after dark. That I will not dispute. Yet Harless' attitude and lack of professionalism was uncalled for. You can be firm and strong without yelling and cussing and throwing implied threats at someone. The uniform and vehicle and badge should automatically give you the authority you need to control the situation. Granted some folks don't see it or recognize it or will submit to the authority presented by the badge/uniform/vehicle. Those can be dealt with in a likewise professional calm but firm manner.
I can appreciate the harshness of the job and the tension one feels walking up to an unknown during a traffic stop and seeing lots of red-flags everywhere. Still.

Harless has been investigated by IA 18 times. I dunno if that is a lot or if it's a small number, yet it does speak volumes to me, an average citizen that a "good cop" is investigated by the department 18 times.
Still final judgement is and should rightly belong to the Canton OH. police department.

 

[JohnEdward]

MA-Carver and those you PM me, I appreciate your good and insightful comments. I can't argue Harless wasn't unprofessional, maybe he was and you both make valid points and can't argue. I think I sure would lose me temper up on reading the situation of the first video. And Harless may have been on the job too long and it got to him. I don't know. But he was in a bad place, with stupid people that could have become dangerous. I think Harless was really rattled seeing that prostitute again after dealing with her and having a history with her. I think because he was rattled, it caused him stressed and confusion, and he didn't allow the "john" to inform him of the concealed weapon. I don't know how long the concealed weapon law was in effect and how familiar to the procedure Harless was and didn't default and ask if anyone in the car had a weapon. It seemed he assumed at first this was a low level threat situation. Where he spanked everyone in the car, sort to speak. Then finds out the drive has a gun. Harless being rattled and not focus, it seems to this lay person, puts Harless at risk. I know mother's who lose it constantly getting after kids who just don't listen and they have enough. That example shows the same thing happened to Harless. He lost it. He was over taxed that night with dealing with petty criminals laying and playing games such as the prostitute, and put himself at risk. I am just trying to point out, the criminal world cops have to work in very sophisticated and dangerous, and as a society we have allowed it. We have high expectations of our police behavior, but little for citizens who disregard the laws, and have no respect for the law. As society we don't socially condemn their behavior strong enough, or work to limit it. We as a society must stop pointing fingers just at the police, and sympathizing with those we feel where victimized by the police. It would be very easy to condemn Harless' behavior if there wasn't such a strong criminal world functioning out there disregarding and disrespecting the law.

 

[Rich Parsons]

If we're lucky these 2 cops will be fired. This is a perfect example of 2 people that should not be cops. Given the fact that there were 2 officers, you'd think one would talk to the female while the other is dealing with the driver. Yes, I understand that traffic stops are dangerous, and going on what is said in the clip, this may not be the greatest area, but you have to be professional. I've been stopped a few times at night, and each time, I was asked if I had any weapons in the car, to which I said no.

I think the biggest problem here, is that this was never established from the beginning. Had he asked the driver the necessary questions, he may've established a weapon was in the car. But he was more concerned with going thru the car. I'd imagine its protocol to remove all people from the car before a search, no?

While I agree it looks bad, a full review and the process should be followed.

That being said until recently with video camera's and taking pictures of police has there been any proof of such behavior. When I talked about this in the past, many police officers assume the problem is me. They assume that there cannot be a police agency that allowed such or would condon such actions. And Good officers need and should think like that, but they also should be open minded enough to understand that they do exist and they exist in places one is not expected, and it is a cancer and if allowed to grow in a department it takes over.

I know from personal experience that these two are lucky, as I was beat and shoved between officers taking short shots and puching me back at the others, while personally kept my hands behid my back as I was grabbing one with the other. I was afraid to raise my hands to defends myself with blocks as that could be taken as being offensive. I have had officers grab me through the window before any words have exchanged. I have officers tell me to my face with 100 plus witnesses that the gun pointed at my head was fake as they did nto want to file the reports.

So good people get mistreated.

Then Good police defend bad cops.

And people wonder why some seem to have an issue. The issue is that if more admitted there was a problem and that sometimes the general population has a point and also the right ro defend themselves even from bad cops. Then maybe people like me who have had issues would not constantly bring them up at times like this. I am not looking for every officer to apologize for the past. Just stop blindly defending each other and look at the data and the situation.

 

[jks9199]

I know from personal experience that these two are lucky, as I was beat and shoved between officers taking short shots and puching me back at the others, while personally kept my hands behid my back as I was grabbing one with the other. I was afraid to raise my hands to defends myself with blocks as that could be taken as being offensive. I have had officers grab me through the window before any words have exchanged. I have officers tell me to my face with 100 plus witnesses that the gun pointed at my head was fake as they did nto want to file the reports.

So good people get mistreated.

Then Good police defend bad cops.

Rich, I don't think I've ever suggested that nothing happened, nor have I automatically defended cops. I think this particular officer has a problem; too much is coming up, even allowing for working a rough area, and being the target of a witch hunt. Is there room to try to give him a little break? Yeah. But his rant in the video that started this crossed the line into unprofessional behavior. The rest? Just add to the case.

I don't know what's going on with the guy. Could be a lot of things, could be nothing and just a winning personality. (Most agencies have at least one guy who you know is going to piss of just about everyone he talks to...) Maybe he needs a vacation. Maybe he needs some counseling. Maybe just some refresher training. Or maybe he needs to be terminated and to find a new job. Don't know. That's for his bosses and him to work out.

 

[JohnEdward]

I want to let everyone know who has posted that I respect their views and opinions. The situation leads to allot of needed discussion - check and balance. We can't have rogue cops abusing their authority, but on the other hand we can't emasculate police powers. It is a delicate and difficult balance. But I don't think this video would be drawing the public's attention or being discussed here. It wasn't for the Ohioans for Concealed Carry (OCC) using the video for political purposes. I think that if I was the decision maker for that group, I would look for another angle and video for making a point. It seems the organization isn't concerned with the cop's behavior if a concealed gun was involved. They portray the "john" carrying the gun as a law abiding gun carrying citizen harassed by a rogue cop. That is only what the organization is only concerned about pointing everything in that direction with bias. I am pointing out the slight nudge of misdirection that is intended to make us sympathetic for the victim and more outraged by Harless' behavior and tactics in order to support the organizations politics. Am not defending Harless' actions, am trying to keep it in perspective. He didn't assault physically the "john," or anyone else, he didn't randomly harass or beat on an innocent law abiding citizen. He didn't act in a racist or bigot manner. No one was falsely arrested. He lost his wits and temper. For some acted unprofessionally. The OCC wasn't concerned about that, they were only concerned that Harless failed to follow procedure concerning a concealed weapon, and used Harless' behavior to discredit cops in favor of gaining more favor for concealed carry. If moron's like the "john" in the video are allowed to concealed carry, then I can't think that Ohio is not ready for concealed carry. I think that is also an issue that should be debated too.

 

[oftheherd1]

... and as a society we have allowed it. We have high expectations of our police behavior, but little for citizens who disregard the laws, and have no respect for the law. As society we don't socially condemn their behavior strong enough, or work to limit it. We as a society must stop pointing fingers just at the police, and sympathizing with those we feel where victimized by the police. It would be very easy to condemn Harless' behavior if there wasn't such a strong criminal world functioning out there disregarding and disrespecting the law.

Very good point, except there is nothing wrong with pointing fingers at cops (if we think they are violating laws or ethics) and sympathizing with those who are wronged (if we truely believe they were).

But I get your point about everybody needing to be held accountable, not just police. I think that is a big problem in the USA. I think it is time to understand that by the time a person has been a jerk (and lawbreaker) for 18 to 20 years, or more, a gentle admonition to do better isn't going to work. Nor is one or even two times providing a chance to do better. It just isn't in their mental makeup at that point to do so. Is prison the best place to rehabilitate them? I don't think so. Nor do I think we can really rehabilitate most of them. I think the only people who can be helped are those who really wish to change. It can't be forced.

 

[Balrog]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, police are part of the problem not the solution.

Suggestion: stop saying it, because it isn't true.