Cult of Personality in Taekwondo

[mastercole]

I am curious what other Taekwondo practitioners think about this subject, and do they feel it is common, or not so common?

A Taekwondo instructor who sets the stage for his own glorification, creating a cult of personality around himself, by either his own actions or by the actions of his students. Students who incessantly carry out the glorification of this type of instructor, even after the instructors death. These students proclaiming him the greatest, toting that other practitioners and instructors are somehow less of everything.

What is all this about?

What are some of the examples of things their followers do that seem "overboard."

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I personally havent seen this, but I have no doubt it does go on.

 

[elder999]

I personally havent seen this, but I have no doubt it does go on.

Tae Yun Kim.

 

[andyjeffries]

Am I the only person that thought of Choi Hong-Hi?

 

[elder999]

Am I the only person that thought of Choi Hong-Hi?

Probably not.........

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Personally, I feel that when things like this go on, it is placing the person above the art. My sahbumnim always stressed that no one is above the art. When ego comes into play (and is put before chain of command), there will always be problems. Perversion of the moral and philosophical teachings of TKD (either by conscious perversion or because they did not fully understand it to begin with and are promoting what they believe to be the true teaching).

I believe that as long as we put the highest emphasis on the art and not any one person and we follow chain of command (although this is assuming that the KJN also puts the teachings of the art of their own ego), the cultish feeling will be a non-issue.

I have witnessed instructors who have a twisted idea/definition of what they were taught, and their twisted ideas of the art are being passed on to their students (and their students' students). They feel that everyone else is off base, which validates/reinforces the pedestal they have put their instructor on (because obviously their instructor is the only one that possesses the correct ideology/knowledge).

This may not be where Master Cole was headed with his question, but this has been my personal experience on the topic.

Maintaining an open mind and empty cup, particularly with seniors, will help to dampen the cultish tendencies. However, that requires interaction outside your "cult," which may not be something that is encouraged.

 

[d1jinx]

EGO. its all about ego and the need to feel important. In some cases its a compensation for thier inability to exsist socially within the real world.

 

[miguksaram]

Am I the only person that thought of Choi Hong-Hi?

Actually I was thinking Tae Yun Kim more than Choi, Hong-hi.

 

[andyjeffries]

Actually I was thinking Tae Yun Kim more than Choi, Hong-hi.

Once someone mentioned Tae Yun Kim I thought of her, but given that I'm not in America her practices/name don't spring to mind as easily for me. I know her and have read lots of opinions about her group, but she just doesn't pop when I think of bad practices.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Like it or not we are in a "Personality Driven Business". I have seen great technicians and instructors not have a large number of students because their were personality issues. I have seen thse who were not great technicians or instructors but good business people with magnetic personalities that have large numbers of students.

FWIW General Choi does mention a comparison between a martial art and a cult in his book. I have seen some of his students and followers do what I and others vehemently opposed due to an excessive cult like nature which is to now have his photo at certain ITF V events (can't speak for other groups) and bow to the photo.
Have been with other groups who did this as well with their deceased leaders / founders. Maybe it's a cultural thing but I find it distateful. Others may just consider it a sign of respect / ackmowledgement.

 

[terryl965]

Ego's have all but ruined the art and I mean all arts. So many instructor forgot the word Humble and so it will always be.

 

[Zenjael]

Frankly, a person's ability and words should speak enough for themself. If I find a master to not be that, or a teacher to not actually be so, I stop attending their classes and avoid their students when possible. That's not martial arts, why should I pay to glorify someone more interested in themself, than actually teaching.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Frankly, a person's ability and words should speak enough for themself. If I find a master to not be that, or a teacher to not actually be so, I stop attending their classes and avoid their students when possible. That's not martial arts, why should I pay to glorify someone more interested in themself, than actually teaching.

And yet you've managed to collect all these dan rankings in so many different styles. Why is that?

 

[Zenjael]

I find life to be very limited, and as such, if I'm to learn as many styles as possible, for the sheer enjoyment of the knowledge and art, then I change schools often. I tend to also keep ties with the schools. I'm hoping, in time, to unify martial artists in my area under an organization to better represent us. Cause there are a LOT in the Washington area, surprisingly. You can find as many styles here as SanFran and New York.

I have never stopped training in the style I began with, Moo Duk Kwan, but I have opted to learn from different schools.

I had the misfortune of being present at two schools when they shut their doors, and to have my own master in Baguazhang pass away, but that is only a small reason why I chose the path I have. What can I say, I'm the slut of martial arts I get around in this area.

I still speak with about 3/4ths of the teachers I've trained under, and that's cross-state, and country.

If you have any more questions pertaining to my background, or skepticism toward me, I would prefer you PM me. No reason for there to be contention on the public boards, I think.

 

[dancingalone]

I have seen some of his students and followers do what I and others vehemently opposed due to an excessive cult like nature which is to now have his photo at certain ITF V events (can't speak for other groups) and bow to the photo.
Have been with other groups who did this as well with their deceased leaders / founders. Maybe it's a cultural thing but I find it distateful. Others may just consider it a sign of respect / ackmowledgement.

It is a cultural thing. It's not uncommon within Japanese dojo to have a picture of the deceased founder such as Ueshiba OSensei of aikido at the shomen, roughly 'front'. The class starts with a bow in in the direction of the shomen. I believe it's a carry over from Shinto, but no one is thinking of worship in rei. It is an acknowledgement and thanks to OSensei as we ready our minds for practice.

 

[puunui]

I have seen great technicians and instructors not have a large number of students because their were personality issues. I have seen thse who were not great technicians or instructors but good business people with magnetic personalities that have large numbers of students.

I prefer the great technician/instructor over the one with the magnetic personality, although I have to say most of my teachers had both.

 

[puunui]

It is a cultural thing. It's not uncommon within Japanese dojo to have a picture of the deceased founder such as Ueshiba OSensei of aikido at the shomen, roughly 'front'. The class starts with a bow in in the direction of the shomen. I believe it's a carry over from Shinto, but no one is thinking of worship in rei. It is an acknowledgement and thanks to OSensei as we ready our minds for practice.

I've seen a picture of Kano Sensei in judo dojo and also Tohei Sensei's picture in Ki Society dojo. Some hapkido dojang put photos of GM Ji and GM Choi up on the wall as well. My original hapkido teacher had a big picture of himself up on the wall of his dojang in Korea, and then here. When he retired, he gave me that portrait, which other students really want. He gave me all his stuff really and there is still more he said I have to pick up. I don't have any negative feelings about hanging portrait photos of one's teacher on the walls of the school.

 

[Buka]

Tae Yun Kim.

I owe you a debt of thanks. A serious debt of thanks.

I have told a story for over thirty five years, never once knowing the name of the person I was speaking of.
Back in the seventies, I was at a tournament somewhere in New England. I forget where, I went to several hundred of them. There was a woman Master there, with about a hundred of her students. All I knew was their school was from Vermont.

I had never seen true cult behavior before. Read about it, sure. Seen it on TV, of course. But I had never seen it first hand. Until that tournament. A woman, a short Korean woman with high heels, was standing on a table with a hundred of her students sitting around her. They were all in gi, she was in white and red clothes. (the heels were red) She was stomping on the table and speaking to them like a TV evangelist, hands gesticulating wildly, a smile as big as as a politicians on election day. Her students were mesmerized, swaying too and fro, chanting and cheering. It seemed like I was watching the filming of a really bad movie. But not a Martial Arts movie, more like a "I'll drink the cool aide" movie. It was kind of scary. No, check that, it was really fricken scary. (and I was a cop) I have always told people that is was the strangest thing I have ever seen in Martial Arts. Hell, it was the strangest thing I've ever seen anywhere.

But I didn't know who it was. Until your post. I Googled her name, thinking, "Nah, it couldn't be her, could it?"
And there she was. For I could never forget that face. Not in a million years.

My deepest thanks for your post.

One other thing....
Her students couldn't fight worth a lick. They could chant their asses off, but that was it.

 

[Twin Fist]

WTeverlovingF is THAT all about?

Tae Yun Kim.

 

[ATC]

Tae Yun Kim.

Wohh!!!!