OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #21
Then dont go to that thread.
I rarely if ever go to the MMA thread because I dont want to read whats going on there.
I havent missed yet.
Credentials and exposure - Was: Is MT friendly as in the TIN?
Then dont go to that thread.
I rarely if ever go to the MMA thread because I dont want to read whats going on there.
I havent missed yet.
OP
Kirk
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #22
understood .. still .. nothin' but love ya!
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
Thats cool. I got nothin' but love for me too!
And RSK.....I would rather in future you qoute the whole thing.....Cuz when you put it like that it misses what I was trying to get across :asian:
Well I have to congradulate RyuShiKan for having the courage to stand up and tell it like it is.
Rank, prestige, respect, recognition, are all things that are earned thru many, many years or decades of hard work. Not purchased from diploma mills, or thru self promotion. The internet has been a great vehicle for the myriad of so called, self promoted "Soke, Grandmaster, Masters" to spread their lies and deceit, for a price of course.
If message boards like this do not expose these phony's who take advantage of the uneducated, than who will?
By allowing these phony's to spew their lies without challenge, we are just helping them deceive the others who don't know better.
Rank, prestige, respect, recognition, are all things that are earned thru many, many years or decades of hard work. Not purchased from diploma mills, or thru self promotion. The internet has been a great vehicle for the myriad of so called, self promoted "Soke, Grandmaster, Masters" to spread their lies and deceit, for a price of course.
If message boards like this do not expose these phony's who take advantage of the uneducated, than who will?
By allowing these phony's to spew their lies without challenge, we are just helping them deceive the others who don't know better.
OP
KenpoDragon
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #25
I know that I haven't been here as long as some of you guys, but I find the environment very friendly. I have seen some pretty heated arguments, and some challenges, but that does happen everywhere. This forum is one of the LARGEST I've ever seen, people all over the world are a part of this forum, all styles, all races. With every barrel there are a few bad apples, if you don't want to hear their arguments and b.s then don't talk to them. Avoid the fight, as all martial artists should do, if possible. I personally am amazed that the moderators allow a lot of the stuff that I've seen here, most other forums they would remove your posts and possibly remove you. There is a lot that is allowed here, you guys should appreciate it, not insult it. I would rather talk to a legitimate martial artist, as opposed to a fraud or fake. I personally love this forum, my attendance in "other" MA forums has dropped considerably, because I prefer it here. I think it is pretty simple, if you can't play by the rules, then you don't play at all. Just my opinion though.
:asian:
:asian:
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Confucius said "to see the right thing, and fail to do it, is to want of courage."
If someone does not "out" the frauds, who will? How will the unsuspecting and ingnorant public, on whom the frauds prey, know any better? Do we simply wait it out and hope beyond hope that they will have an epiphany and realize they are being scammed? How long do we wait? How much money do we allow the unsuspecting student to shell out before we step in and provide the benefit of our own experience and knowledge?
If I am paying a fraudulent doctor for medication you know will not help me, and you stand by and say nothing, how should I feel about you, the doctor, or medicine in general? What if I die as a result of that doctor's poor treatment?
Same thing here. There are plenty of insecure victims that seek out martial arts as a method by which to shore up their flagging self-image and esteem, and some who attend classes because they have a genuine need to protect their own skin. If we allow the frauds to meander about unchecked, touting titles and histories that are more at home in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon than they are in the real world, scamming helpless ignorant people, then who is to blame when that student gets injured or killed due to piss poor instruction? Really, who is to blame? The fraudulent teacher who taught the student crap techniques, or worse yet the practitioner that knew better and said nothing...
Please... You can't tell someone they are a fraud in a "nice way."
Riiiiight...
Martial Talk is the best BBS out there. I hardly ever visit E-budo, I have stopped going to KFO, and only rarely do I visit Cyberkwoon. Friendly? You bet MT is. But since this place is getting more word of mouth reference, it is also going to draw the freaks like mosquitos to a bug light.
Sometimes it'll get nasty, just like the ground under the bug light after a nice warm night. The rest of the time, it'll still be the best place to come have a chat...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
If someone does not "out" the frauds, who will? How will the unsuspecting and ingnorant public, on whom the frauds prey, know any better? Do we simply wait it out and hope beyond hope that they will have an epiphany and realize they are being scammed? How long do we wait? How much money do we allow the unsuspecting student to shell out before we step in and provide the benefit of our own experience and knowledge?
If I am paying a fraudulent doctor for medication you know will not help me, and you stand by and say nothing, how should I feel about you, the doctor, or medicine in general? What if I die as a result of that doctor's poor treatment?
Same thing here. There are plenty of insecure victims that seek out martial arts as a method by which to shore up their flagging self-image and esteem, and some who attend classes because they have a genuine need to protect their own skin. If we allow the frauds to meander about unchecked, touting titles and histories that are more at home in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon than they are in the real world, scamming helpless ignorant people, then who is to blame when that student gets injured or killed due to piss poor instruction? Really, who is to blame? The fraudulent teacher who taught the student crap techniques, or worse yet the practitioner that knew better and said nothing...
Please... You can't tell someone they are a fraud in a "nice way."
Riiiiight...
Martial Talk is the best BBS out there. I hardly ever visit E-budo, I have stopped going to KFO, and only rarely do I visit Cyberkwoon. Friendly? You bet MT is. But since this place is getting more word of mouth reference, it is also going to draw the freaks like mosquitos to a bug light.
Sometimes it'll get nasty, just like the ground under the bug light after a nice warm night. The rest of the time, it'll still be the best place to come have a chat...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
There has to be a balance. On the one hand useful info. must get out, but on the other hand it needn't be repeated ad infinitum.
Remember, there are many fora here for many arts, and I read pretty much all of them. Most of this place is still very friendly. In spots there are some more heated threads.
Remember, there are many fora here for many arts, and I read pretty much all of them. Most of this place is still very friendly. In spots there are some more heated threads.
OP
fringe_dweller
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #28
My opinion on the matter...
I think that exposing these guys as frauds is most definitely an important thing, but once done, it's done. I don't mind reading a single thread that has a heated argument about the burden of proof and all the rest, but when 70% of threads all end up trailing off on to that it gets a bit much.
Obviously the latest example of fraudulent claims comes to light around Paihequan. I didn't mind reading one thread which debunks this guy, but if every time he posts a thought he gets jumped on then things will get a little ridiculous. How can you ask a guy to turn over a new leaf when he never gets a chance to offer any thoughts apart from defence?
RSK, your threads are most enlightening and your knowledge is without question. When I first registered here you made heaps of valuable posts regarding technique and training methods etc. You and the yiliquan guys provide a lot of great material. Of late though it seems that you spend more time yapping at these guys heels.
If you wish to show these guys up, then you are doing a great job, however I would much rather hear your thoughts on how we can better ourselves as martial artists - something to which you can and have contributed greatly in the past.
Hope I'm getting my message across the way I intend...
Respectfully,
I think that exposing these guys as frauds is most definitely an important thing, but once done, it's done. I don't mind reading a single thread that has a heated argument about the burden of proof and all the rest, but when 70% of threads all end up trailing off on to that it gets a bit much.
Obviously the latest example of fraudulent claims comes to light around Paihequan. I didn't mind reading one thread which debunks this guy, but if every time he posts a thought he gets jumped on then things will get a little ridiculous. How can you ask a guy to turn over a new leaf when he never gets a chance to offer any thoughts apart from defence?
RSK, your threads are most enlightening and your knowledge is without question. When I first registered here you made heaps of valuable posts regarding technique and training methods etc. You and the yiliquan guys provide a lot of great material. Of late though it seems that you spend more time yapping at these guys heels.
If you wish to show these guys up, then you are doing a great job, however I would much rather hear your thoughts on how we can better ourselves as martial artists - something to which you can and have contributed greatly in the past.
Hope I'm getting my message across the way I intend...
Respectfully,
Fringe,
You said it wuite well. 1 thread is ok...but when -every- thread someone is involved in becomes a series of claims and denials and questions etc, it gets insane.
Thats why we've had a lot more lockdowns as of late.
I expect our official notice will be out shortly.....
You said it wuite well. 1 thread is ok...but when -every- thread someone is involved in becomes a series of claims and denials and questions etc, it gets insane.
Thats why we've had a lot more lockdowns as of late.
I expect our official notice will be out shortly.....
OP
sweeper
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #30
I tend not to read bloated threds of personal attacks.. It's not realy worth my time. There are plenty of god threds on here, if it turns into a flame fest just don't read that thred anymore.
But I would point out it is rather hard to have a dialog with two seperate perspectives on a topic without it seeming confrontatios. And if you try to point out anything you disagree with or dislike of another perspective it will end up seeming aggressive. The line between contribution and pointless flamming is kind of thin in my opinion and to much sensoring well have you throwing out the baby with the bath water.
But I would point out it is rather hard to have a dialog with two seperate perspectives on a topic without it seeming confrontatios. And if you try to point out anything you disagree with or dislike of another perspective it will end up seeming aggressive. The line between contribution and pointless flamming is kind of thin in my opinion and to much sensoring well have you throwing out the baby with the bath water.
My Personal Opinion.
It should be friendly. If you do not like the request then leave.
Fraud Busting, as stated before, no one really likes them. Yet, to have every thread turn into this attack, this is cyber stalking in my mind. And when you get a group of people to all attack amd split hairs it can get confusing, on who said what. I also did not likie the fact that I was explicitly told that it would stop yet teh horse was still being beaten by both sides. I also did not like the fact that my questions were not answered. Yet, it was fundamental that everyone else answer to them. It seemed to me that the Fraud busters would change the subject every time I asked for an answer. If you really want me to list teh examples, then I will go dig them up, yet I think enough is enough on that subject. I just brought them up here to show how it was taken as unfriendly and not being a postive member of this society.
Challeges, well I wanted to answer a challenge, yet someone else told me they were going to, so I let them, since it was more of a direct attack on them and a secondary attack on American practitioners. It happens, yet just like the fraud busters, they want data to show what you have claimed. To back it up. Well when it goes to a certain point people ask for it to be backed up. Personally, the next person that wants to fight me, or insult me, can look me and let me know when they are in a day's drive and I will meet them. Just remember this is not sparring, for everyone wants reality. You see, I had enough of violence, yet every now in then you have to show you can to let people know.
Oh Yeah in the part of the world where some of the challenges are being issued, it is their fall, and the testerone level rise in the fall. Obviously they has no outlet for this issue.
Thread counts, well Gee I bought a new Motorcycle and on nice days I am outsde taking care of my lawn or riding my bike. NAd soon some friends will have their jet-skis running and I will be out on them. Oh Yeah I have a new job, on top of the old job, and been busy there also. And to be serious, if something borders on being rude or insulting, I just close the windows and go do something else. The Internet is not my life. I keep busy, and teach MA for fun also. Even some private lessons now that the weather is warmer.
Growing Pains, yes this site will have its' growing pains. I believe from the rules here that this site is trying to make it available to all not just to a select few.
None of what I said is meant as a personal attack, only comments. I am far to busy to take any of this too serisously, and get upset over it. Just remember I might need a few days or weeks notice if you are looking for me, since I do travel for Work and Training.
Have a nice day everyone I know I had an excellant one!
It should be friendly. If you do not like the request then leave.
Fraud Busting, as stated before, no one really likes them. Yet, to have every thread turn into this attack, this is cyber stalking in my mind. And when you get a group of people to all attack amd split hairs it can get confusing, on who said what. I also did not likie the fact that I was explicitly told that it would stop yet teh horse was still being beaten by both sides. I also did not like the fact that my questions were not answered. Yet, it was fundamental that everyone else answer to them. It seemed to me that the Fraud busters would change the subject every time I asked for an answer. If you really want me to list teh examples, then I will go dig them up, yet I think enough is enough on that subject. I just brought them up here to show how it was taken as unfriendly and not being a postive member of this society.
Challeges, well I wanted to answer a challenge, yet someone else told me they were going to, so I let them, since it was more of a direct attack on them and a secondary attack on American practitioners. It happens, yet just like the fraud busters, they want data to show what you have claimed. To back it up. Well when it goes to a certain point people ask for it to be backed up. Personally, the next person that wants to fight me, or insult me, can look me and let me know when they are in a day's drive and I will meet them. Just remember this is not sparring, for everyone wants reality. You see, I had enough of violence, yet every now in then you have to show you can to let people know.
Oh Yeah in the part of the world where some of the challenges are being issued, it is their fall, and the testerone level rise in the fall. Obviously they has no outlet for this issue.
Thread counts, well Gee I bought a new Motorcycle and on nice days I am outsde taking care of my lawn or riding my bike. NAd soon some friends will have their jet-skis running and I will be out on them. Oh Yeah I have a new job, on top of the old job, and been busy there also. And to be serious, if something borders on being rude or insulting, I just close the windows and go do something else. The Internet is not my life. I keep busy, and teach MA for fun also. Even some private lessons now that the weather is warmer.
Growing Pains, yes this site will have its' growing pains. I believe from the rules here that this site is trying to make it available to all not just to a select few.
None of what I said is meant as a personal attack, only comments. I am far to busy to take any of this too serisously, and get upset over it. Just remember I might need a few days or weeks notice if you are looking for me, since I do travel for Work and Training.
Have a nice day everyone I know I had an excellant one!
OP
RyuShiKan
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #32
I would rather spend time posting more about the technical training side as well................however as Yiliquan1 stated.........
"to see the right thing, and fail to do it, is to want of courage."
It seems I have to spend more time weeding those people out than doing what I actually like........which sucks........but since I am the one that knows or has found out about their shinanigans I am obliged.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Just for kicks, I opened another browser and did a quick review of every other forum, just to get an idea of what the conversations ongoing were about.
Several fora haven't had a new post in weeks. No big deal, they are specialized fora with smaller readership than others.
Several fora appear to exist to provide their adherents with mutual support, a la "we really are the best, aren't we!?" The posts are either along the lines of topic specific (e.g. specific techniques and such that are unique to that particular art form), or about how everyone outside of that art genre is on a lower rung of the martial arts ladder than they are.
Whatever.
The threads where fraud-busting have occurred were posted in high traffic fora, places that have a higher readership and volume of postings than other fora. This leads me to believe that, like a large city, the higher the population, the higher the percentage of running into someone weird...
The challenges laid down, and I'm talking about specific challenges, not back and forth "my dad's tougher than your dad" schoolyard threats, have occurred in one specific forum, in one specific thread...
So the idea that the assumption of the entire board having become "less friendly" seems absolutely ridiculous to me... There are plenty of threads ongoing to satisfactorily outnumber the 3 or so that have been locked, the couple ongoing where tensions are high, or the one wherein the challenge was levied...
I think folks need to check their facts more fully before stirring the pot this way... (*hint, hint there MOB*)
Gotta say that with the activity of late, both good and bad, for and against, I am really reconsidering how I spend my off time... :idunno:
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Several fora haven't had a new post in weeks. No big deal, they are specialized fora with smaller readership than others.
Several fora appear to exist to provide their adherents with mutual support, a la "we really are the best, aren't we!?" The posts are either along the lines of topic specific (e.g. specific techniques and such that are unique to that particular art form), or about how everyone outside of that art genre is on a lower rung of the martial arts ladder than they are.
Whatever.
The threads where fraud-busting have occurred were posted in high traffic fora, places that have a higher readership and volume of postings than other fora. This leads me to believe that, like a large city, the higher the population, the higher the percentage of running into someone weird...
The challenges laid down, and I'm talking about specific challenges, not back and forth "my dad's tougher than your dad" schoolyard threats, have occurred in one specific forum, in one specific thread...
So the idea that the assumption of the entire board having become "less friendly" seems absolutely ridiculous to me... There are plenty of threads ongoing to satisfactorily outnumber the 3 or so that have been locked, the couple ongoing where tensions are high, or the one wherein the challenge was levied...
I think folks need to check their facts more fully before stirring the pot this way... (*hint, hint there MOB*)
Gotta say that with the activity of late, both good and bad, for and against, I am really reconsidering how I spend my off time...
:idunno:Gambarimasu.
:asian:
MartialTalk Policy updates and changes:
In the past few weeks several things have happened on this board that have caused concerns among both the staff and our members. These concerns cover a wide range of things. This is our attempt to address them.
First, a point of history.
MartialTalk.com was originally setup in August of 2001 to serve as a discussion forum for a regional web portal. It was never in my wildest dreams that it would be as popular as it is, and go truly world wide. In fact, it has long since outgrown and absorbed its parent site.
MartialTalk is for the friendly discussion of martial arts. The key here is this exact phase. My mental image of MartialTalk is a big living room, everyone relaxing with a cool beverage, chatting about their arts, swapping stories, news, techniques and info.
It is not a place to puff your chest, flex your muscles, get on the soapbox and rabble rouse. Nor is it the place to expose your dirty laundry, spread rumors and lies, stab in the back, and run smear campaigns.
It is not the place for egos, attitudes and agendas.
We have seen the following problems over the recent few weeks flare up greatly. It is our growing concern that left unchecked, these issues will seriously damage, possibly destroy all the hard work we have all put into this site.
1: Off Topic posts, and major thread drift.
We have specific forums for specific areas. Please, use them. As our post count climbs higher, it is harder and harder for our staff to keep up with policing everything. We need your active- help. Please post on topic to each thread. If it starts to drift, help steer it back on track by a: -politely- bringing up the original topic and b: starting a new thread for the tangent.
2: Fraud Busting.
Every art has its frauds, fakers, and plain misguided folks. Some of them are obvious, some are not. The purpose of MartialTalk is not- to be the place thats the master list of who is legit and who is not. We have -one- forum target at the Bad Budo idea. If you have specific information on such things, post it there. The constant jumping from forum to forum and thread to thread of this desire by several well meaning folks to cleanse the arts and others who constantly feel the need to defend from attacks that often times arent even there is causing us to lock down an excessive number of threads. This cannot be allowed to continue.
Effective immediately, fraud busting outside of the realm of the Bad Budo forum will result in administrative actions against those involved when it disrupts the smooth operation of this forum. If you have concerns about someones rank/status it is to be handled via PM or email. You may post the results of that research in the Bad Budo forum if warranted. Educated martial artists will see the fraud for what he/she is and should just ignore them. This board was set up for friendly discussion of martial arts, not as a soapbox for people's personal crusades.
If you have questions, concerns, etc about someone or their 'qualifications', post it in the 'Bad Budo' forum and address it there -within our guidelines-. Interrogator type posts will not be tolerated any further. Post your questions, and give the others time to answer. The non-responsivness of an individual should be enough.
3: Lack of respect or tolerance for differing opinions.
Frankly, we are tired of the arguments about gender, race, nationality, etc. We are tired of those supposedly educated, experienced, trained martial artists, who tend to regress to school yard bully mentalities and tactics.
Effective immediately, we will begin removing those members who disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. If you cannot follow our rules, if you cannot leave your attitude at the door, we do not want you here.
There is a difference between a debate and an argument. We welcome debate, as long as it is within our posted guidelines. Take your argument and flames elsewhere.
The harassment of members, the hiding behind the youre not an XXX so you wouldnt understand, the you master sucks, etc. stuff will stop. Now. I dont care if he thinks hes a Sith-Lord and you know he is nuts. It will cease, immediately.
4: Adult Content / profanity
Recently, many posts have skirted the line on mature content. Let me be very specific. If its of a sexual nature it is probably too far. If you cant say it with out cursing like a truck driver, it is probably too far. If you have to reedit your post as its got lots of *** in it, its too far, and if you change all the *** stuff so that your words mostly show up, you will be booted. Circumventing the filters is a suspendable offense, and will be more strongly enforced in the future. We have at least a 5-10% membership under the age of 14.
5: The General forum is not the everything goes here forum.
If it does not involve martial arts, it goes in the locker room, unless it is a joke, in which case it goes in the humor forum. If you need help, post it in the support forum, not buried 50 posts deep in a thread wondering why we don't reply.
We are working to find ways to resolve the issues that have been brought to our attention. This will take time, and it will require the assistance of our members. 1500 members, 10 mods. Theres a lot more members than staff.
This forum and its features is here for your use and enjoyment. It is up to you on how you behave here. You can treat it as a prized resource, or a toilet. Those who do the latter will rapidly be removed.
My staff and I are your hosts. You are all our guests. We expect you to behave as such. We will remove at our discretion any and all those who we feel are not behaving by our rules. This will be done regardless of rank, title, previous contribution or political alignment. If you cannot follow our rules, the door is there. Dont let it hit you in the *** on your way out. We will honor ALL- remove my account requests immediately from this point on. No saves, no pauses. If you are suspended and whine, you will be banned. It is fair to ask why, but once told, take it like a grown up.
Before someone say this is singling out anyone in particular, it is not.
Any questions?
In the past few weeks several things have happened on this board that have caused concerns among both the staff and our members. These concerns cover a wide range of things. This is our attempt to address them.
First, a point of history.
MartialTalk.com was originally setup in August of 2001 to serve as a discussion forum for a regional web portal. It was never in my wildest dreams that it would be as popular as it is, and go truly world wide. In fact, it has long since outgrown and absorbed its parent site.
MartialTalk is for the friendly discussion of martial arts. The key here is this exact phase. My mental image of MartialTalk is a big living room, everyone relaxing with a cool beverage, chatting about their arts, swapping stories, news, techniques and info.
It is not a place to puff your chest, flex your muscles, get on the soapbox and rabble rouse. Nor is it the place to expose your dirty laundry, spread rumors and lies, stab in the back, and run smear campaigns.
It is not the place for egos, attitudes and agendas.
We have seen the following problems over the recent few weeks flare up greatly. It is our growing concern that left unchecked, these issues will seriously damage, possibly destroy all the hard work we have all put into this site.
1: Off Topic posts, and major thread drift.
We have specific forums for specific areas. Please, use them. As our post count climbs higher, it is harder and harder for our staff to keep up with policing everything. We need your active- help. Please post on topic to each thread. If it starts to drift, help steer it back on track by a: -politely- bringing up the original topic and b: starting a new thread for the tangent.
2: Fraud Busting.
Every art has its frauds, fakers, and plain misguided folks. Some of them are obvious, some are not. The purpose of MartialTalk is not- to be the place thats the master list of who is legit and who is not. We have -one- forum target at the Bad Budo idea. If you have specific information on such things, post it there. The constant jumping from forum to forum and thread to thread of this desire by several well meaning folks to cleanse the arts and others who constantly feel the need to defend from attacks that often times arent even there is causing us to lock down an excessive number of threads. This cannot be allowed to continue.
Effective immediately, fraud busting outside of the realm of the Bad Budo forum will result in administrative actions against those involved when it disrupts the smooth operation of this forum. If you have concerns about someones rank/status it is to be handled via PM or email. You may post the results of that research in the Bad Budo forum if warranted. Educated martial artists will see the fraud for what he/she is and should just ignore them. This board was set up for friendly discussion of martial arts, not as a soapbox for people's personal crusades.
If you have questions, concerns, etc about someone or their 'qualifications', post it in the 'Bad Budo' forum and address it there -within our guidelines-. Interrogator type posts will not be tolerated any further. Post your questions, and give the others time to answer. The non-responsivness of an individual should be enough.
3: Lack of respect or tolerance for differing opinions.
Frankly, we are tired of the arguments about gender, race, nationality, etc. We are tired of those supposedly educated, experienced, trained martial artists, who tend to regress to school yard bully mentalities and tactics.
Effective immediately, we will begin removing those members who disrupt the smooth operation of this forum. If you cannot follow our rules, if you cannot leave your attitude at the door, we do not want you here.
There is a difference between a debate and an argument. We welcome debate, as long as it is within our posted guidelines. Take your argument and flames elsewhere.
The harassment of members, the hiding behind the youre not an XXX so you wouldnt understand, the you master sucks, etc. stuff will stop. Now. I dont care if he thinks hes a Sith-Lord and you know he is nuts. It will cease, immediately.
4: Adult Content / profanity
Recently, many posts have skirted the line on mature content. Let me be very specific. If its of a sexual nature it is probably too far. If you cant say it with out cursing like a truck driver, it is probably too far. If you have to reedit your post as its got lots of *** in it, its too far, and if you change all the *** stuff so that your words mostly show up, you will be booted. Circumventing the filters is a suspendable offense, and will be more strongly enforced in the future. We have at least a 5-10% membership under the age of 14.
5: The General forum is not the everything goes here forum.
If it does not involve martial arts, it goes in the locker room, unless it is a joke, in which case it goes in the humor forum. If you need help, post it in the support forum, not buried 50 posts deep in a thread wondering why we don't reply.
We are working to find ways to resolve the issues that have been brought to our attention. This will take time, and it will require the assistance of our members. 1500 members, 10 mods. Theres a lot more members than staff.
This forum and its features is here for your use and enjoyment. It is up to you on how you behave here. You can treat it as a prized resource, or a toilet. Those who do the latter will rapidly be removed.
My staff and I are your hosts. You are all our guests. We expect you to behave as such. We will remove at our discretion any and all those who we feel are not behaving by our rules. This will be done regardless of rank, title, previous contribution or political alignment. If you cannot follow our rules, the door is there. Dont let it hit you in the *** on your way out. We will honor ALL- remove my account requests immediately from this point on. No saves, no pauses. If you are suspended and whine, you will be banned. It is fair to ask why, but once told, take it like a grown up.
Before someone say this is singling out anyone in particular, it is not.
Any questions?
OP
J-kid
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #35
Well first off i would like to note that this is one of the most friendly boards there are.
Do i believe we have arguments. Yes and they should be expected they add controvesy and make this a intresting site the last thing i want is this a site that is safe for anyone 2 and up.
If you cant handle a little heat every once and awal then maybe the internet isnt the best place for you. Sometime people on this site takes this far to seriously and it really weirds me out from time to time. Also do not confuse controvesy with harrasment there is a big diffrence all out attacks on people aka trolling is not cool and usally is lame and dumb that is what should be cracked down on.
As for fraud i believe frauds must be exposed and that it will help fix a major problem in the martial art world. There is a site that is all about that www.bullshido.com but i believe you should be able to talk about it freely here as well.
I find it shocking how the whip is being cracked down for almost no reason and the fact is that childish rules are being added i dont know if it is to protect the website from being sued for poeple branding other people mcdojos but those rules are limiting are discussions on martial arts.
I believe the old rules were good enough how they weir.
Do i believe we have arguments. Yes and they should be expected they add controvesy and make this a intresting site the last thing i want is this a site that is safe for anyone 2 and up.
If you cant handle a little heat every once and awal then maybe the internet isnt the best place for you. Sometime people on this site takes this far to seriously and it really weirds me out from time to time. Also do not confuse controvesy with harrasment there is a big diffrence all out attacks on people aka trolling is not cool and usally is lame and dumb that is what should be cracked down on.
As for fraud i believe frauds must be exposed and that it will help fix a major problem in the martial art world. There is a site that is all about that www.bullshido.com but i believe you should be able to talk about it freely here as well.
I find it shocking how the whip is being cracked down for almost no reason and the fact is that childish rules are being added i dont know if it is to protect the website from being sued for poeple branding other people mcdojos but those rules are limiting are discussions on martial arts.
I believe the old rules were good enough how they weir.
What I would like to see is a simple policy proposal. You say it, you prove it. That's it. Nothing difficult. Just a policy where the people who make claims have to provide proof of it when challenged by other people. If they can not, then their post is deleted, and they are never again allowed to mention that fact again. Several claims being made, all unsubstantiated, result in the person being suspended.
You cannot accuse someone without bringing up proof to back it up. You cannot brag about something without being prepared to trot out the proof so that anyone can see it.
Do you want every Ashida Kim, Sato-sensei, Jack Stern type to start showing up here puffing up their chest as they try to convince newbies just how wonderful they are? This does not have to be a screaming match. If the moderators will just coldly and calmly enforce this rule then those that need to brag about things they did but can't prove will find other places to show up at. If you do not, then I suspect that this place will start looking like rec.martial.arts with all of it's self-important masters and super SEAL commandos.
Someone makes a claim. Someone else challenges it. The challenger is not allowed to scream, yell or insult at the other person. But the person who made the claim now has to back it up. If he can't, black mark and he is looking at possible suspension from the board if keeps up this pattern of behavior.
I personally do not feel the need to state things about myself or my experiences too much. I see many other people who post usefull information that does not rely on their word. If we accept this simple policy, which is really a kind of common sense, the frauds and people who disrupt boards with their ego agenda will find it too tough to get by and honest, friendly discussion can take place.
You cannot accuse someone without bringing up proof to back it up. You cannot brag about something without being prepared to trot out the proof so that anyone can see it.
Do you want every Ashida Kim, Sato-sensei, Jack Stern type to start showing up here puffing up their chest as they try to convince newbies just how wonderful they are? This does not have to be a screaming match. If the moderators will just coldly and calmly enforce this rule then those that need to brag about things they did but can't prove will find other places to show up at. If you do not, then I suspect that this place will start looking like rec.martial.arts with all of it's self-important masters and super SEAL commandos.
Someone makes a claim. Someone else challenges it. The challenger is not allowed to scream, yell or insult at the other person. But the person who made the claim now has to back it up. If he can't, black mark and he is looking at possible suspension from the board if keeps up this pattern of behavior.
I personally do not feel the need to state things about myself or my experiences too much. I see many other people who post usefull information that does not rely on their word. If we accept this simple policy, which is really a kind of common sense, the frauds and people who disrupt boards with their ego agenda will find it too tough to get by and honest, friendly discussion can take place.
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #37
Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Just for kicks, I opened another browser and did a quick review of every other forum, just to get an idea of what the conversations ongoing were about.
Several fora haven't had a new post in weeks. No big deal, they are specialized fora with smaller readership than others.
Several fora appear to exist to provide their adherents with mutual support, a la "we really are the best, aren't we!?" The posts are either along the lines of topic specific (e.g. specific techniques and such that are unique to that particular art form), or about how everyone outside of that art genre is on a lower rung of the martial arts ladder than they are.
Whatever.
The threads where fraud-busting have occurred were posted in high traffic fora, places that have a higher readership and volume of postings than other fora. This leads me to believe that, like a large city, the higher the population, the higher the percentage of running into someone weird...
The challenges laid down, and I'm talking about specific challenges, not back and forth "my dad's tougher than your dad" schoolyard threats, have occurred in one specific forum, in one specific thread...
So the idea that the assumption of the entire board having become "less friendly" seems absolutely ridiculous to me... There are plenty of threads ongoing to satisfactorily outnumber the 3 or so that have been locked, the couple ongoing where tensions are high, or the one wherein the challenge was levied...
I think folks need to check their facts more fully before stirring the pot this way... (*hint, hint there MOB*)
Gotta say that with the activity of late, both good and bad, for and against, I am really reconsidering how I spend my off time...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Actually Matt (If I am allowed to call you that) my first post was all my opinion and observations. I never claimed to offer you cold hard facts about the world of Martial Talk. I disagree this post is out of line.....Read some replys like Fringe_Dweller.....They all talk about the fraud busting and the way it spreads from thread to thread. This IMO sets off a string of unfriendly posts. I can see why your not complaining, being part of RSK fraud busting clique. This thread was my opinion....And I wanted to see if any members had noticed or felt there had been a change recently. If thats my opinion and you claim it out of line then this place really has gone down the drain.......
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Feel free...
No, actually you did... You attempted to cite the decrease in posts and made a general statement about other members holding certain perceptions about the board currently... These sound a lot like attempts at offering cold, hard facts, though they fall short...
I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your own opinion - far from it. Rather, that your opinion needn't necessarily be aired if you haven't fully explored the accuracy of it. There have been times when I had an opinion, and wanted to vent it, but thought better of it and kept it to myself until the opinion was fully formed and thought out.
The threads and members in question are a distinct minority. Some of them do account for a large number of posts, but the activities you cite are an incredibly small number of the posts being made or threads being contributed to.
Just my opinion... Sometimes just because we can do a thing, doesn't mean we should do a thing. And this, enigmatically, is offered up for digestion on many different levels...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
I disagree this post is out of line.....Read some replys like Fringe_Dweller.....They all talk about the fraud busting and the way it spreads from thread to thread. This IMO sets off a string of unfriendly posts. I can see why your not complaining, being part of RSK fraud busting clique. This thread was my opinion....And I wanted to see if any members had noticed or felt there had been a change recently. If thats my opinion and you claim it out of line then this place really has gone down the drain.......
[/B][/QUOTE]
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #39
My apoligys....I didnt read my first post carefully enough (I have just woken up
). Although you may say its not bad etc I would have to disagree and from the looks of the poll up there......there are those who agree with me....and those who dont. But unlike the Fraud Busting threads we have all managed to get them across nicely in this one Anyways, I got the kind of response and action I wanted by bringing up this thread.....However Matt if you still feel it is "Way out of line" then I trust your judgement enough to give you permition to ask a mod or admin to delete this.
Thanks for listening :asian:
OP
yilisifu
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #40
Argh! I work midnights for a day or two and look at what I miss...
Let me say simply that I feel Martialtalk is very freindly but with it's popularity growing, it's bound to attract a fair share of frauds and BS artists. I think it is fortunate that we have members who are willing and able to shoot down those who would prey on the unsuspecting.
I realize that it usually results in some heated discussions, but there's really no way to politely or respectfully call someone a "fraud." And most frauds don't respond respectfully when they're exposed.
I think we need to focus on quality rather than quantity - I've left numerous other boards because they were primarily interested in the latter and I tired quickly of listening to BS artists spout their wares and tout their endless knowledge of martial arts.
If we try to maintain some semblance of standards, we may lose a few - but then, you have to ask yourself why they left in the first place?
Let me say simply that I feel Martialtalk is very freindly but with it's popularity growing, it's bound to attract a fair share of frauds and BS artists. I think it is fortunate that we have members who are willing and able to shoot down those who would prey on the unsuspecting.
I realize that it usually results in some heated discussions, but there's really no way to politely or respectfully call someone a "fraud." And most frauds don't respond respectfully when they're exposed.
I think we need to focus on quality rather than quantity - I've left numerous other boards because they were primarily interested in the latter and I tired quickly of listening to BS artists spout their wares and tout their endless knowledge of martial arts.
If we try to maintain some semblance of standards, we may lose a few - but then, you have to ask yourself why they left in the first place?
