Creating Forms?

Kwanjang

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First, Hello everyone especially my TKD friends! Have any of you ever created a poomsae with or without weapons? I know there are some people- like me, that are OCD about form. If you have created a form, What was the pattern, Was it an H pattern or a + type pattern?

I have created a couple of forms, one with a staff...It's called Beautiful Morning.

Is it that we don't really ceate, but rather re-assemble things we have been taught by our Seniors?

What do you think? Terry, Exile, Iceman, Stuart, Sjon, Miles, Bluekey, Youngman, Def
 

dancingalone

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I'm really of two minds about the idea of creating new forms. It can certainly be useful... for example if you do TKD, it's likely that your form set (Pyung Ahn, Chang Hon, Palgwe, Tae Geuk) contains relatively few kicks within it and they're not the high flying fanciful ones we think of when TKD comes to mind. This does seem at cross purposes with the art of taekwondo, especially if you are one of the majority of schools out there that do not teach applications from forms, other than the obvious (and likely unrealistic) ones. In this case, I would support creating new forms that directly support a framework of TKD as a true kick-oriented martial art. Many of us like to knock the ATA, but their forms actually mirror their perspective that kicking should be the top method one uses when fighting.

On the other hand, if you are in applications camp as I am, there's really not much of a reason to create your own until you master the lessons contained within the classic forms. Heck, I'm still working on the concept of stomping to increase power in your upward strikes contained within Pinan Godan, and I've been working that kata for 16+ years now... Same thing with the actual applications contained with the forms I know. I've written down about 100 'hidden' applications I know, practice, and teach with my students. My own teacher tells me I'm missing another 400 he has cataloged himself, and I'm sure other teachers have their own slate. It's safe to say I don't need to create my own - I just need to learn the ones I do know better!

I will confess I play frequently with physical motion. I've been fortunate enough to have been exposed to a handful of different arts from truly outstanding masters. I've taken something away from all of them and I try to at least get my body to remember vaguely what they were trying to teach. It could be as simple as a counter-rotation on the heel or the practice of looseness in the wrists and shoulders to create whipping power in your strikes. My students always think I am practicing some secret form, when I'm actually just stringing together some random movements that exhibit the qualities I am trying to manifest. Who knows, perhaps that is how traditional forms started in the first place?
 

granfire

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Well, it's like trying to re-invent the wheel. There are basic moves that just are, not much you can change about it.

Points to ponder when doing forms:

it is not to much the whole as the sum of all parts. Each element (should) serve a purpose. Rushing through one to get to another should be considered false.

Forms have never been a static thing. There is a lot of myth involved in the teaching of them. Fact is that they have changed over time, from master to master etc to help them do what they have been designed for: Practice individual techniques to their fullest potential (that does also mean one has to put some effort in it like he/she actually means it, a strike is a strike and a block is a block etc)

So, that brings me to making your own.

I made one a couple of years back, set to music.
It is not so easy as it seems. you naturally incorporate parts from forms you have done up till then. You just can't help it. But you do get to take all elements from all forms and pick the ones you like best, that suit your abilities best (if you want to showcase the form in a competition) on the other hand you can pick the elements that trip you up and combine them. Maybe they are not in that way in a form.

In the ITA we can compose a freedesign from rank of brown belt on and compete with it. I never had the time before I got my Black belt, with every 2 month testing, every 4 a new form....

And still the form is - though written down, and named, not finished. maybe because I didn't come up with the last part till the night before the competition...

You can do many things with a form, even take an existing form and mirror image it.

One benefit of doing forms is to ingrain the move into muscle memory. Another is to develop more and new brain connections (Dr Moshe Feldenkrais said so, not me, but it makes sense) by doing the un-accustomed moves. As this form can be therapeutic and meditational and definitly worth making your own.
 

wade

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Ummmm, maybe I am wrong but granfire and dancingalone, I don't think kwanjang actually asked for your opinions. If you look at his post he was very particular on who he wanted responses from. If I am wrong then I most humbly apologize. :angel:
 

granfire

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awe, he didn't want to hear from us.....

we answered anyway...you know what they say about opinions...
 
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Kwanjang

Kwanjang

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Ummmm, maybe I am wrong but granfire and dancingalone, I don't think kwanjang actually asked for your opinions. If you look at his post he was very particular on who he wanted responses from. If I am wrong then I most humbly apologize. :angel:

Thanks Wade. The question is about creation of your own. Anyone can commment as long as they stay on topic! with a response to each question,
:)
 

dancingalone

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Ummmm, maybe I am wrong but granfire and dancingalone, I don't think kwanjang actually asked for your opinions. If you look at his post he was very particular on who he wanted responses from. If I am wrong then I most humbly apologize. :angel:

Well, I've never been shy about offering my opinion. That can be a plus in some professions. :mrtoilet:
 

StuartA

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I know a couple of guys that have created forms. One guy basically put things he felt were more useful to self defence into a couple of forms, but they were basically moves already in the forms in his system (he wasnt TKD btw).

Another created a small set of forms that were more related to fighting. Ie blocks were parries, not static punches (all jabs/crosses/hooks etc) it was all flowing and continually moving and looked pretty decent. A TKD'er btw

Finally, a TKD guy I know, whos excellant, created a set of forms to work difficult techniques better, create more flow and also serve as a workout. They were very energetic, involved quite a few jump kicks etc.

The first one I mention I cannot say how amny of the moves were original or not. the last two did them for their students because they felt they better followed what they wanted to teach/train. They both did them along side traditional forms, but the middle one dropped original forms originally and create about 20 of his own for varying levels.

I think cutting and pasting standard forms is a waste of time, but doing what these guys did is beneficial if thats your vision.

Stuart
 

granfire

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I forgot to add (sry Wade, me again) though we do practice fancy kicks a lot, in forms the emphasis is on the hand techniques. As a guide 70% hands, 30% kicks.
 

bluekey88

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While I've personaly never flet a burning need to create my own forms...ti has been a requirment of many of my intermediate pre-2nd dan tests. Either we have to create a kicking combination (my last one was 6 moves...I'll have to put an 8 move one together for my Ee dan test).

I also had to creat a 12 move poomse and will have to create a 20 move poomse for my Ee dan test.

If it weren;t a requirement, it would not have crossed my mind to do this.

That being said, I don;t believe in doing something just to get it out of the way. SO, when I do one of these creations, I start from a point of answering a few basic questions:
1. what do I need to work on?
2. What kind of "theme" should underly this form?


For my first 4 move kick technique...I focused on putting together a basic self-defense sequence that made sense...starting with a jab-cross hand combo no less and then a low Thai-style roundhouse aimed at he knee/thigh...

For my next sequence, I needed to work on WTF sparring combos...specifically a raster side step and double roundhouses. so I did a lot directional changes.

For my 12 move poomse, I wnet with the theme of realistic boonhae...and also exploring my MA background. So I thought about how 4 different arts that I've studied (TKD, Karate, Wing chun and Aikido) might deal with a haymaker attack. I limited each defense to three moves with the idea of stoppign the attack, unbalancing and then tearing apart the attacker.

It was pretty neat. I called it poomse pu pu platter. :)

I'm not sure where I'll go with the 20 move poomse I need to do...I have to approximately October to get it together.

All in all, these excercises have been fun, but I'm jsut as happy working on the traditional poomse/kata...more than enough material there to keep one busy.

Peace,
Erik
 

IcemanSK

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I've never created a form, either. I'm not the creative type. I have trouble enough with the ones other's have made.
 

terryl965

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KJ I have never created a form or poomsae, mainly because it was never part of my Instructor criteria. I believe we must work to perfect the poomsae we have and that is a lifetiem of work for some of us.
 
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