Columbia's Final Minutes

[Bob Hubbard]

Columbia's Final Minutes
The second-by-second account of the shuttle's last minutes

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hscov0127,0,442476.story?coll=ny-health-headlines


Very sad info in there....

What I found interesting is that while both Challenger and Columbia had no chance, they're learning alot, and believe with only minor modifications that the crew modules can be improved to allow a chance for survivability in even such an extreme disintegration.

 

[arnisador]

Thanks for posting this. It's sobering to see it in such clinical detail.

 

[Makalakumu]

and then there is this...

http://www.assassinationscience.com/columbiamystery.pdf

Enjoy

 

[Shodan]

Pretty interesting stuff........which to believe?!

:asian: :karate:

 

[michaeledward]

Wow .. what a wacky *** theory spouted out there.. the one by Jim Fetzer.

While I think he is correct in his assessment of the Bush administration, I think he has no understanding of the physics during lift-off. That he could spin such a yarn based on the report of some photographs is very impressive. Somehow, I think a styrophone tile striking the wing at 650 mph could do enough damage to cause the shuttle to break up upon re-entry.

It seems to be reaching into the realm of psuedo science ... what more could we expect from a PHILOSOPHY professor.

In his credit, I will not that his article was published less than two weeks after the Columbia's break-up. Since then, we have learned a great deal more about the events based on good solid science.

Mike

(edit) P.S. The first report shows a collision speed of "more than 500 mph". I thought I had seen an mathematical calculation that reported the 650 mph speed I mention above ... either way ... Ouch! (end of edit)

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Conspiracy theorists are pretty good yarn spinners.

I strongly suspect that Fetzer is doing this for fun and profit. Supposedly he has a degree in the philosophy of science, so he may be writing stuff like this as part of some research on the propogation of a meme. In any case, I'm sure his book sales are thriving.

If he's serious , then he's likely got some issues with paranoia.

One wonders with conspiracy theorists:

1. How, in light of the fact that they've exposed these insidious plots by these powerful forces of evil, that the conspiracy theorists are still alive? Were Fetzer "on to something", I would think that the plotters would kill him.

2. How super secret organizations can be so inept as to let their secrets out so as to be pasted across the web by ordinary people.

3. How these quite common folk (the conspiracy theorists) could be so incredibly competent, intelligent, and heroic in unearthing such evils. They're the Frodo and Sam's of our age, aren't they?

This last point is, I think, key...they want some sort of meaning attached to their lives. So they buy into or create little pseudo-intellectual fictions to make themselves feel as if they're gifted. They further have a sense of purpose in their otherwise dreary world.

A conspiracy theory over Columbia might be fun and nifty for some...but it minimizes the deaths of the crew by drawing attention away from the true cause of the crash--INCOMPETENCE. If the Space Program is to survive, we need to avoid distractions and tend to the business of making the program safer. We don't need conspiracy chimeras to blame. We know where to point the finger.

As for the Columbia crew, I hope they died quickly and painlessly. I suspect they did. Mach 18 and decompression likely made it swift.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

The answer is simple! Conspiracy theorists are part of the conspiracy! They divert attention away from the real plot...

 

[RCastillo]

that NASA get's complacent about it's work, along with the governments need to have things go on schedule as planned.

We've all seen that "quality control" will fail them from time to time.

 

[michaeledward]

The complacency in NASA was a major contributor, unfortuneately. The engineers knew the foam broke away from the shuttle and struck the wing. Some very basic mathematics (for the engineers anyway) could have informed them of the potential damage. It was also possible to get images of the shuttle while still in space from some of our satellites, which would have indicated the problem. Senior management did not allow the re-aiming of the satellite.

The sad part is, even if they did image the shuttle during orbit, would we have been able to do anything about it?

* Park the shuttle at the ISS?
* Send up a second shuttle and transfer the crew? Landing the Columbia by auto pilot?
* Send a Russian craft to act as a lifeboat? (The ISS is still using a Russian craft for the life boat, isn't it? ... the US has to get its vehicle up there.)

I'm not sure there were alternatives. Yes it was tragic. And I would go tomorrow, risks and all (the same thing I said on 1/29/1986)

Mike

 

[arnisador]

It's not clear that a rescue mission could have been mounted, though for the future they're talking about an on-board repair kit for this type of thing.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Yep, Michael, I agree---remarkable that They could be at once so ingenious and so incompetent. Personally, if I were all-powerful and wanted to wipe out the Columbia...I can think of about forty-eleven ways to do it without bothering with a particle weapon.

Last conspiracy I read about that made sense to me was in Burroughs' "Nova Express," or Pynchon's, "Gravity's Rainbow," or Moore's "Watchmen."

Hell, the PUBLISHED stuff--look at the DOE's release of info about radiation experiments on terminally-ill children at Oak Ridge is a helluva lot scarier than any of these Big Secrets.

And, sorry, but I suspect at times that some folks espouse these conspiracies because they prefer to see something other than those stats that say stuff like, as Americans, we have 7% of the world's population hoovering up well over 40% of the world's resources.

In other words, blaming They helps us to overlook the extent to which, for the considerable majority of the world's people, WE are They.

Pogo was right.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

In other words, blaming They helps us to overlook the extent to which, for the considerable majority of the world's people, WE are They.

Robert,

I think it depends on the nature of the cospiracy buff. Some are scapegoating the Jews. Those with more of a right wing slant (and there are some left wing slants) tend not to be concerned for the majority of the world's populace.

But you are correct that for a majorit of the world, we are "they". I haven't confirmed this, but someone wrote that if an American earned $43,000/year, they were in the top 1% when it camed to income.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
But you are correct that for a majorit of the world, we are "they". I haven't confirmed this, but someone wrote that if an American earned $43,000/year, they were in the top 1% when it camed to income.

I've seen that figure before and it really makes it hard to justify our standard of living. I grew up in a family that lived a pretty hard life - poverty - I guess, but even then, nothing I experienced compares to what the majority of the world experiences. Yet there are places in this country where people live that poorly. Pine Ridge in South Dakota for instance...

 

[rmcrobertson]

Look up the money thing on globalrichlist.com.

They're a charity, so they hit you up for money. They also tell you fund things like: I am among the 0.839% richest people in the world, and 5, 949, 632, 435 people have a lower yearly income than I do.

Then there's that whole thing with the European and First World bias of Mercator projection maps...

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I've seen that figure before and it really makes it hard to justify our standard of living.

The issue isn't justifying OUR standard of lving. There is no need to justify it or feel guilty about it.

The issue is justifying THEIR standard of living. It isn't justifiable. This is what needs to be corrected.


Regards,



Steve

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
The issue isn't justifying OUR standard of lving. There is no need to justify it or feel guilty about it.

When you walk into Wal-mart and you know that half the crap in there was made in a sweatshop by a child laborer who got paid a pittance and worked for 16 hour days with a guy holding a submachinegun staring over their shoulder. And then you walk out of that hole with that item because it was cheap...

I object to that and I think that people should feel guilty for it. Our standard of living, forces them to live the way they do. Their options are dictated by our wants. If the US wants cheap, the US ships the guns to the dicators and we get cheap.

Sounds like a "free market" eh?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
When you walk into Wal-mart and you know that half the crap in there was made in a sweatshop by a child laborer who got paid a pittance and worked for 16 hour days with a guy holding a submachinegun staring over their shoulder. And then you walk out of that hole with that item because it was cheap...

It can't be very cheap if each child has his own armed guard standing behind him--those don't come quite so cheap.

 

[Bester]

Out of curiosity, what does child labor, WallyMart, and the rest of this have to do with Columbia? Are the paranoid conspiracy nuts now implying that the shuttle was shot down by some redneck with a phaser, or is it just that people are unable to leave one topic here untainted by massive off-topic drift?

Nice show of respect.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Eight, sir
Seven, sir
Six, sir
Five, sir
Four, sir
Three, sir
Two, sir,
One

Tenser, said the Tensor
Tenser, said the Tensor
Tension, apprehension and dissension
Have begun

 

[hardheadjarhead]

This probably needs to be moved to its own thread.

I object to that and I think that people should feel guilty for it. Our standard of living, forces them to live the way they do.

No, it does not.

This is tantamount to saying that impoverished nations would thrive if we did not thrive, or that they would thrive if the system were such that it didn't take advantage of them. Businesses are moved to these countries (Japanese businesses to Indonesia, American businesses to Mexico and elsewhere) because the standard of living is low and labor is cheap.

I don't deny that sweat shops exist in the Third World, or that products are sold in America from them. I'd happily boycott a product or distributor if I was presented with believable evidence that they sold such items. I'll write my Congressman. I'll work the Internet. I'll speak openly and loudly against such injustices... when provided specifics of same.

But I will not feel a sense of guilt because I was born in a wealthy country and was afforded opportunities that others lack. I'm not going to get into that breast-beating "mea culpa" angst that so many of my fellow liberals seem to have.

I'm more than happy to work to rectify any wrongs of the past, be it against Native Americans, blacks, hispanics, Jews...but I won't feel guilt for the transgressions against those people. Sorry, but the sins of the father do not transmit to the son unto any generation.

If I work to change the world its because the world needs to be changed and because I identify myself as an agent of that change...not because I geel guilty for the color of my skin or the size of my bank account. Nor will I feel guilty because of the geographical location of my birth. Guilt such as this robs altruism of its dignity. It is neurotically co-dependent, disingenous and self serving in its narcissism. It is also useless.


Regards,


Steve