V
verbatim19
Guest
guys can everyone on this forum write what they personally think is the best way to close the gap in a fight. Please i would really like to learn how to close the gap.
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Low jump kicks I find useful. The problem is that they telegraph (coung nhu talk for you can see it coming). If you practice keeping you head low (at the same level before and during) it will be harder to notice. Also measure the range (space that you need to cover) by your back leg. That makes it so that your opponent will not have as much time to respond. Some how it makes it faster. Another good way I use is to keep your head at the same level and creep in. just kinda slide your feet in degrees of less then an inch. Then when youre where you want to be attack. Practice these two things in sparring or the free style you school does, and also practice in static drills. Some good ways to work it is get sparring gear and have you just use one or the other, with your opponent just defending against it. Since they kit's coming every one time you get it in, is probably about 3 times in normal free style/fight. By the way if you use the jump kick, a target to aim for is the floating rib or stomach, and then follow up with hand strikes to the head. In a fight, your opponent is probably looking at a few broken ribs, a ruptured kidney, a ruptured lung, or the wind knocked out of him/her depending on the amount force the strike hit with and if it was successful. Even if not they will most likely be to busy with your kick to notice punches or what have you to head or be able to do much about them. In sparring at a tournament, well the same principal applies; they can defend themselves from one, but not both. If your style doesn't do much kicking then you'll have to go with creeping in. and since it takes longer it'll be more noticeable. Good luck with that.
Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,
John
Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,
John
verbatim19 said:
Are you talking more about finding ways to cose the gap to allow you to be able to reach with strikes or to clinch? Setting them up with combos is a good way. Give them something to keep them on the defense. If you're talking more about a clinch, think back to Royce Gracies fights. He would throw what appears to be a low front kick. This 'kick' was more of a gauge for distance than an actual strike. When he was close enough to reach the person, he knew he'd be close enough to clinch.
Mike
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
OK, maybe a silly question but what does this really mean in terms of self-defense? (Since this is a self-defense form, after all). By that I mean, closing the gap is, I asume, a movemtn in to an attack which I wonder if is advisable. There are, I believe, legal ramifications if you are seen as the attacker. I suppose if you are in a 'street fight' and you just want to beat the other guy up then it makes sense, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea for a martial artist defending himself to initiate the action. So I admit that in a self-defense context, I can't envision a context where this is really a good idea, morally or legally.
Nevertheless, assuming that it's a good idea. I think it really depends on your art, or at least the techniques you want to attack with. The 'gap' is going to be different between someone who wants to kick (big gap) someone who wants topunch (medium gap) and somone who wants to grapple (small gap). Nothing wrong with any of them, just different approches. What might seem 'outside the gap' for someone may seem 'pretty close, within striking distance' for someone else. If you are facing someone who likes to kick, you might be thinking you need to close the gap only to find out that you have already crossed that gap, to them, and are about to get struck.
Anyway, how I usually see the gab crossed, from the perspective of an art that wants to kick a lot, is a) deception and b) foot work. Deception is simply to make a motion that simulates an attack to get the opponent to react to the fake but then to come through with an attack from a different attack or angle. For example, assuming you are in a 'fighting stance', you can drive the back leg forward like you are going to kick, but then roll your hips over and kick from the other leg. I know in a different thread bout jabs it was mentioned faking with a jab and coming through with a reverse punch. Same idea, come in with a fake attack to get them to react and use this forward motion to bring you into range for the real attack. I know in another line of thinking there was the idea that is you are going to shoot in for a takedown, you start out by faking a hand attack up to distract and unbalance the opponet. Either way, how you fake depends on what you really want to attack with. The other is footwork. I know from TKD that many kick attacks are intiated with foot movement that brings you into range for the attack. It can be as simple as a slight shuffle forward. One thing I like to do on spinning kicks is to drive the lad foot forward a few inches and turn it as it helps get me rotating and also brings me close enough to be in range. A switch stance with a slight forward motion can initiate an attack.
I guess just thinking of TKD there are too many ways to describe of using footwork to bring you in closer as you start an attack so...each art is going to have their own ways of coming in close as part of an attack technique so...
...it really depends on how you are trying to attack
Nevertheless, assuming that it's a good idea. I think it really depends on your art, or at least the techniques you want to attack with. The 'gap' is going to be different between someone who wants to kick (big gap) someone who wants topunch (medium gap) and somone who wants to grapple (small gap). Nothing wrong with any of them, just different approches. What might seem 'outside the gap' for someone may seem 'pretty close, within striking distance' for someone else. If you are facing someone who likes to kick, you might be thinking you need to close the gap only to find out that you have already crossed that gap, to them, and are about to get struck.
Anyway, how I usually see the gab crossed, from the perspective of an art that wants to kick a lot, is a) deception and b) foot work. Deception is simply to make a motion that simulates an attack to get the opponent to react to the fake but then to come through with an attack from a different attack or angle. For example, assuming you are in a 'fighting stance', you can drive the back leg forward like you are going to kick, but then roll your hips over and kick from the other leg. I know in a different thread bout jabs it was mentioned faking with a jab and coming through with a reverse punch. Same idea, come in with a fake attack to get them to react and use this forward motion to bring you into range for the real attack. I know in another line of thinking there was the idea that is you are going to shoot in for a takedown, you start out by faking a hand attack up to distract and unbalance the opponet. Either way, how you fake depends on what you really want to attack with. The other is footwork. I know from TKD that many kick attacks are intiated with foot movement that brings you into range for the attack. It can be as simple as a slight shuffle forward. One thing I like to do on spinning kicks is to drive the lad foot forward a few inches and turn it as it helps get me rotating and also brings me close enough to be in range. A switch stance with a slight forward motion can initiate an attack.
I guess just thinking of TKD there are too many ways to describe of using footwork to bring you in closer as you start an attack so...each art is going to have their own ways of coming in close as part of an attack technique so...
...it really depends on how you are trying to attack
lonecoyote
Brown Belt
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I'd probably blitz (shoot your lead foot back, step your rear foot up, and let your body's momentum thrust you forward) from way off or step through, punching as I do so as not to get caught from a little closer to get to punching range. If someone is hitting and taunting you, and you can't get to them, lead them with deception until you can get them trapped by a fence, wall, or corner.
Shaolinwind
2nd Black Belt
verbatim19 said:
A valuable and seldom defeated method I have in sparring is a simple jump. Both knees high, hop straight into their face.. Do whatever hand technique you please before you fully land.
It always confounds 'em.
The Jab.
Don't try anything fancier, The jab is going to be your entry 90%+ of the time. And learning to properly use the jab will take a long time.
But, there is a reason for the saying "If you can't jab you can't box", and that's partly because it provides the entry, to everything else
Don't try anything fancier, The jab is going to be your entry 90%+ of the time. And learning to properly use the jab will take a long time.
But, there is a reason for the saying "If you can't jab you can't box", and that's partly because it provides the entry, to everything else
The jab is great for controlling range in many ways.
I agree with the earlier point that in a self-defense situation this is less common than in sparring/dueling, though I think it can still be relevant in self-defense.
I really struggles with this as a beginner. Now I tend to feint a low kick or mid-level jab and make up some distance as I do that. Better yet if I can get them moving backward and rush in while they're doing so and can't defend well.
Of course, with a stick it's a similar problem but the techniques change somewhat!
I agree with the earlier point that in a self-defense situation this is less common than in sparring/dueling, though I think it can still be relevant in self-defense.
I really struggles with this as a beginner. Now I tend to feint a low kick or mid-level jab and make up some distance as I do that. Better yet if I can get them moving backward and rush in while they're doing so and can't defend well.
Of course, with a stick it's a similar problem but the techniques change somewhat!
Basically to get in you need to stick something out there that they have to deal with, preferably in there face so that they don't hit you as you come in 
Sticks are the same, you need a jab, not neccessarily a thrust, but that works. But a quick hit that occupies there stick so that it is not wacking you as you move in, so that you can wack the other guy.
Sticks are the same, you need a jab, not neccessarily a thrust, but that works. But a quick hit that occupies there stick so that it is not wacking you as you move in, so that you can wack the other guy.
Paul Genge
Green Belt
- Joined
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- 147
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Fighting and sparring are two different things. In fights they usually start with threats ect. During this phase it is natural for the antagonists to get literally in each others face. In fact in LEO circles alot of time is spent on recognising and maintaining some distance.
In this situation bridging the gap is not a problem because you are already near. If not keep talking and move closer before using a pre-emptive move.
In a situation where punches and kicks are already being thrown remember it is not a sport. You are under no presure to score points and hit the other guy. Relax and let him come to you. Trust me if he is serious about hurting you he has to get closer enough to do this.
In the situation where the attacker throws uncommitted jabs ect to fend you off, hits to the punching arms and legs create openings that you can move into.
Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
In this situation bridging the gap is not a problem because you are already near. If not keep talking and move closer before using a pre-emptive move.
In a situation where punches and kicks are already being thrown remember it is not a sport. You are under no presure to score points and hit the other guy. Relax and let him come to you. Trust me if he is serious about hurting you he has to get closer enough to do this.
In the situation where the attacker throws uncommitted jabs ect to fend you off, hits to the punching arms and legs create openings that you can move into.
Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk
bcbernam777
Brown Belt
Use your feet, control the fighting distance, then when he has made his move intercept on either the initiation or retratction of his tools, even if he is using a combo, there will be an end to it, find the end, you will find your beginning.
Andrew Green said:
This is what I would say to use myself. The jab mixed with good footwork is perfect for controlling the distance between you and an opponent. It does not have to be hard, but you need to be able to throw it hard. It can knock them otu or be like a swarm of nats.
Great advice, Mr. Evans!!!
searcher said:This is what I would say to use myself. The jab mixed with good footwork is perfect for controlling the distance between you and an opponent. It does not have to be hard, but you need to be able to throw it hard. It can knock them otu or be like a swarm of nats.
Great advice, Mr. Evans!!!
Who?
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
On several occassions I will take baby-steps forward as I shuck and jive. Mixed with off-center movement to the right and left you'll be amazed how close you can 'sneak' in.
Is that for sparring and competition? Or for self-defense/combat? I'll admit that for a street encounter I'm a bit skeptical of the idea of 'shuffling' in to close distance unawares because based on what I've seen in video of street fights, the type of standing there and sizing up the opponent and preparing an entry doesn't seem to happen. There doesn't seem time that your opponent is going to give you to close in like that. For sparring, yes, there is the time to shuffle in and 'sneak' in and end up closer than your opponent thinks/expects. But for self-defense...I admit that I don't think it's going to work. A quick movement to get your opponent focused one way and to react as you close, followed by another quick movement to actually 'engage' (whether strike or takedown or whatever) as you slip passed their reaction to your first movement seems to me to be what it takes to close in a street encounter.
Is that for sparring and competition? Or for self-defense/combat? I'll admit that for a street encounter I'm a bit skeptical of the idea of 'shuffling' in to close distance unawares because based on what I've seen in video of street fights, the type of standing there and sizing up the opponent and preparing an entry doesn't seem to happen. There doesn't seem time that your opponent is going to give you to close in like that. For sparring, yes, there is the time to shuffle in and 'sneak' in and end up closer than your opponent thinks/expects. But for self-defense...I admit that I don't think it's going to work. A quick movement to get your opponent focused one way and to react as you close, followed by another quick movement to actually 'engage' (whether strike or takedown or whatever) as you slip passed their reaction to your first movement seems to me to be what it takes to close in a street encounter.
Icewater
Orange Belt
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I was referring to sparring for the 'sneak' in. The only thing I can tell you about real altercations is that I have never been in two that are the same. In a real fight I just react as best I can to whatever the guy trying to hurt me brings (and in retrospect those reactions were never picturesque). I have not found an instance where I thought '... if I could only close the gap I could take this guy out.' In fact, I typically don't have much of any thought until the fights been on for a few seconds. And by then I'm just trying to figure out how to get out unscathed. However, I can tell you that stepping off the line of attack and not just backing up is a good idea.
Icewater
Icewater
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I was referring to sparring for the 'sneak' in
Ahh...since this thread was posted in the "General Self Defense" forum I assumed the context was a self-defense situation and not a sparring/sport competition
Ahh...since this thread was posted in the "General Self Defense" forum I assumed the context was a self-defense situation and not a sparring/sport competition
In real basic terms you need to have a good grasp of timing and distance. For instance, you should be able to feel (not have to think about it) the distance to where you are just out of range, but close enough the attacker feels they can get you. Then provide them a target. This way you know where it will likely come from. To the casual observer, you are reacting, but in reality you are acting and your attacker is reacting to cues you provide, or more specifically, you are controlling the situation. So if they are reacting you already have the advantage. Then just slip it and your in. I hope I haven't given away any secrets Of course, now you have to figure out what kind of training is going to teach you that.
Of course, now you have to figure out what kind of training is going to teach you that. FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Bigshadow, that's a great idea because it avoids the legal danger of beeing seen to be the attacker
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
i think the number one thing that prevents most people from defending themselves effectively is the fear of that first hit.
from my perspective, i work in 2 modes, 100% escape (as in evasion and getting the heck outta there), or 100% offense (which i can use evasion skills and angles to create opportunities for attack).
you need to be 100% commited to defending yourself in a situation gone bad.
like Bigshadow said, you need to lead the dance and get your attacker to "chase" you. By doing this, they will cover the distance needed in order for you to strike, kick, lock or throw them.
from my perspective, i work in 2 modes, 100% escape (as in evasion and getting the heck outta there), or 100% offense (which i can use evasion skills and angles to create opportunities for attack).
you need to be 100% commited to defending yourself in a situation gone bad.
like Bigshadow said, you need to lead the dance and get your attacker to "chase" you. By doing this, they will cover the distance needed in order for you to strike, kick, lock or throw them.
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