Chuck Norris and TKD

Dirty Dog

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I would have to check but none of my WT(F) documents/certificates have anything to do with rank. They are for competitions/levels and tourney contributions.

Well that makes perfect sense. Because WT isn't an art. It's a sports governing body.

I think if the "honorary" BB were given to someone skilled who never officially studied the art, that would make sense.

If you say so, but to me... not so much. They don't know the art. I feel the same way about honorary doctorates and such. If it's not earned, it's silly. Just give them a Certificate of Appreciation or some such.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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If you say so, but to me... not so much. They don't know the art. I feel the same way about honorary doctorates and such. If it's not earned, it's silly. Just give them a Certificate of Appreciation or some such.

For the sake of brevity, I deleted part of my initial comment before posting.

If Harvard Business School gave Bill Gates an honorary MBA, I'd be hard pressed to disagree. Similarly, giving Chuck Norris an honorary BB in TKD, in the alternate scenario that he never tested for it, would seem perfectly fine to me.
 

_Simon_

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He's also an avid proponent of the Total Gym (commercial came on this morning) :p
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Equilibrum32

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"A acuaintance of mine that is with Mr. Norris's organization. Say's, the kukkiwon has given him certification like clockwork for many year's".

No reflection on Mr. Norris intended here, but to me that stinks. How can the Kukkiwon justify awarding ranking to a non TKD practicioner? I can imagine that TKD practicioners that can't afford or find someone to sign off on their application for promotion would be kind of ticked off big time.

He IS a TKD practitioner. Is it so hard to google? "It was in the Air Force, while stationed in Korea, that Chuck was introduced to martial arts. In a statement from his publicist to 35th Air Defense Artillery Public Affairs, Chuck Norris confirmed that Grand Master Mun, the tireless Tae Kwon Do instructor at the Osan Gym, was one of his teachers many years ago"

Chuck also considered himself a student of both General Choi of ITF and Jhoon Rhee.
 

dvcochran

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He IS a TKD practitioner. Is it so hard to google? "It was in the Air Force, while stationed in Korea, that Chuck was introduced to martial arts. In a statement from his publicist to 35th Air Defense Artillery Public Affairs, Chuck Norris confirmed that Grand Master Mun, the tireless Tae Kwon Do instructor at the Osan Gym, was one of his teachers many years ago"

Chuck also considered himself a student of both General Choi of ITF and Jhoon Rhee.
While Norris has practiced and is belted in TKD and TSD he started his own style, Chun Kuk Do.
Kukkiwon has regularly awarded rank to higher ranking people of others styles if the conditions warrant it.
 

Earl Weiss

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Taekwondo. He learned the forms from Gen. Choi.
Sir, Please check on time line. GM Lee was a Chung Do Kwan Product. (Which was TSD) I believe he adopeted the Chang Hon patterns for a time after he came to the USA similar to Jhoon Rhee and He Il Cho.
 

Balrog

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Sir, Please check on time line. GM Lee was a Chung Do Kwan Product. (Which was TSD) I believe he adopeted the Chang Hon patterns for a time after he came to the USA similar to Jhoon Rhee and He Il Cho.
My timeline is correct. GM Lee learned the forms from Gen. Choi. His handwritten notes are on display in the ATA museum. He taught the forms until 1983, when he started developing his own style (Songahm) and teaching the new forms.
 

Earl Weiss

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My timeline is correct. GM Lee learned the forms from Gen. Choi. His handwritten notes are on display in the ATA museum. He taught the forms until 1983, when he started developing his own style (Songahm) and teaching the new forms.
Sir, I am aware he learned the forms from General Choi and was part of the ITF for a time. I believe prior to learning the forms (Like Jhoon Rhee and He Il Cho) he was a Chung Do Kwan student.
 

Earl Weiss

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Earl Weiss

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Okay. Thanks for documenting that what I said was correct.
Sir, Apparently we are not communicating. My question and point was that in Korea HU Lee was a CDK student and that is where Chuck Norris trained with him. The CDK was doing TSD not TKD. As per the linked information. It was not until HU Lee was in Omaha that he met and learned from General Choi learning those forms and like so many other CDK products switched to TKD. Or are you claiming that TSD and TKD are one and the same?
 

Earl Weiss

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Sir, Apparently we are not communicating. My question and point was that in Korea HU Lee was a CDK student and that is where Chuck Norris trained with him. The CDK was doing TSD not TKD. As per the linked information. It was not until HU Lee was in Omaha that he met and learned from General Choi learning those forms and like so many other CDK products switched to TKD. Or are you claiming that TSD and TKD are one and the same?
Also of interest may be that in Chuck Norris' first book he states that what e ;earned was TSD. In a later book he refers to it as TKD.
 

isshinryuronin

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Also of interest may be that in Chuck Norris' first book he states that what e ;earned was TSD. In a later book he refers to it as TKD.
I don't follow Korean karate, but have a couple old personal anecdotes. I heard Chuck Norris (and others) refer to his style as TSD in the years surrounding 1970. Also in this time frame was a former Korean champion and teacher I was acquainted with (Young Ik Suh) who called his art TKD.

These two men had VERY different fighting styles - Norris' was fast, short combos, Suh's was more rangy, powerful kicks (although Norris, unlike Suh, was an American open tournament competitor, so this may have had some influence. But their forms reflected this difference as well.) It was common belief (at least amongst us non-Korean stylists) that TSD and TKD were two distinct styles.

Norris' 2nd book you referred to may reflect (just conjecture on my part) the fact that TKD had become more firmly established and was much better known to the public than TSD, so the terminology may have been "adjusted" to take advantage of this popularity.

As I said, I'm no Korean MA authority by any stretch, but I was on the scene during those exciting years and my observations may provide some interesting perspective.
 

Earl Weiss

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Norris' 2nd book you referred to may reflect (just conjecture on my part) the fact that TKD had become more firmly established and was much better known to the public than TSD, so the terminology may have been "adjusted" to take advantage of this popularity.
My conjecture as well.
 

InfiniteLoop

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Also of interest may be that in Chuck Norris' first book he states that what e ;earned was TSD. In a later book he refers to it as TKD.

Chuck Norris is of the opinion that Tang Soo Do is a form of TaeKwonDo, as shared by Pat Johnson, his partner in Korean Karate schools.

You can hear Pat name Tang Soo Do as a form of TaeKwonDo in the intro here.
 

InfiniteLoop

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Or are you claiming that TSD and TKD are one and the same?

Chuck is:)

2:18: "It was called Tang Soo Do, now it's called TaeKwonDo"


You can't use the argument that it's not TKD due to different patterns, since many TKD rebranded places did not to switch to TKD forms even when General Choi had created his Chang Hon forms. So Chucky is well within his rights to call Tang Soo Do a form of TaeKwonDo.

The free sparring of Tang Soo Do is essentially the same as ITF.
 
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InfiniteLoop

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Sir, Apparently we are not communicating. My question and point was that in Korea HU Lee was a CDK student and that is where Chuck Norris trained with him. The CDK was doing TSD not TKD. As per the linked information. It was not until HU Lee was in Omaha that he met and learned from General Choi learning those forms and like so many other CDK products switched to TKD. Or are you claiming that TSD and TKD are one and the same?

Not sure what your point is here.... There is no TKD black belt back then who is not traced back to either Karate/Shotokan or Tang So Do, including General Choi who did Shotokan in Japan...

You seem to make a bigger deal out of labels and katas more than Chuck is..
 
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