Certification in Multiple Organziations

Azulx

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
659
Reaction score
215
Does your organization offer a way for black belts from other organizations to get black belt certification from yours, without starting all over again as a white belt?
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,363
Reaction score
9,102
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Sure. Sort of. They'd still have to learn the entire curriculum from white belt, but if they wanted to wear their belt from their other system, that's fine.
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,322
Reaction score
281
I purchased a school from a KKW grandmaster a number of years ago. As part of the agreement, he helped me gain KKW certification for myself so the transition would be seamless for the students.

Since then I have accepted a number of black belts from other TKD systems as members of the dojang. I will likewise help them gain KKW certification when they can perform the KKW forms to my satisfaction along with a few other local dojang requirements I have set.

I generally support attaining certification from a large and credible organization whenever possible. That said, I do think the benefits of it for most students (those that do not go on to have careers in TKD) are way overstated as a marketing ploy for schools that can and do offer it.
 

jondoe297

White Belt
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
19
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
When I was actively instructing, I would always honor a new student's rank if they were coming from another school/organization. I even honored rank from schools/organizations that I had little to no respect for. It has always been my personal feeling that not doing so marginalized or trivialized the student's prior achievements. However, as Dirty Dog said, they would have to learn the entire curriculum. I would require that before considering them for promotion.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
They'd have to learn the curriculum and retest for their 1st poom/dan, but sure. We've had a few people with 1st poom/dan or danbo in non-KKW TKD or TSD join, and that's how we've handled it.
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,275
Reaction score
9,390
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Years ago a Judo school wanted me to teach taijiquan at their dojo. The only way that could happen was if I was covered by their insurance. He was going to get me certified as a brown belt in Judo though his organization so I would be covered..... never trained Judo in my life. I had trained Japanese Jiujutsu..... about 15 years prior and done none since..... did not like the concept and I decided I was not going to do that so I never taught there.

Point is if he could do that then I am guessing a lot of organizations can do the same if they are so inclined
 

Kinghercules

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
259
Reaction score
7
Location
Washington DC
Sure. Sort of. They'd still have to learn the entire curriculum from white belt, but if they wanted to wear their belt from their other system, that's fine.
Thats how it should be. If a person walks in with a BB from somewhere else you say ok no problem you just have to learn the curriculum. I guess thats why I never took a BJJ class. Cause they want you to start as a white belt and I always say no.
LOL!
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
Thats how it should be. If a person walks in with a BB from somewhere else you say ok no problem you just have to learn the curriculum. I guess thats why I never took a BJJ class. Cause they want you to start as a white belt and I always say no.
LOL!

BJJ is an entirely different style. You should start there as a white belt, because your TKD training will provide little or no help there.

What we're talking about here is if, say, you wanted to join a KKW school. You'd have to learn the Taegeuk forms and Olympic-style sparring, but your general knowledge of TKD would carry over, so if you applied yourself you could probably be ready to test for KKW 1st dan in a matter of months.
 

jondoe297

White Belt
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
19
Reaction score
4
Location
Virginia
My opinion on the matter is that style is largely irrelevant to maintaining rank. Gene Lebell summed up my feelings on the matter in an interview years ago (where he talks about Chuck Norris showing up to his school wearing a white belt):
"In my schools or wherever I teach, I strongly advocate cross training. I believe if a martial artist comes in, especially a black belt, he or she can teach their techniques to other people that might want to learn some of their moves. In my opinion, if a person is actually a black belt, I feel they should wear their black belt even if they are not training in the style they are trying to learn."
When I was still teaching, I taught Tang Soo Do, and for students who wanted to compete, I taught olympic TKD. If someone came in with rank in a completely unrelated style (say, Judo for example), they would continue to wear that rank. They earned it. Their knowledge of a different way of doing things was also something valuable that they brought to the table.
Of course, we all do things differently, and that's A-OK.
 

Kinghercules

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
259
Reaction score
7
Location
Washington DC
BJJ is an entirely different style. You should start there as a white belt, because your TKD training will provide little or no help there.

What we're talking about here is if, say, you wanted to join a KKW school. You'd have to learn the Taegeuk forms and Olympic-style sparring, but your general knowledge of TKD would carry over, so if you applied yourself you could probably be ready to test for KKW 1st dan in a matter of months.
Nah.....I was taught it don't work like that. I've trained in Kung Fu and Aikido and none of them asked me to wear a white belt. They excepted me as I am.

I don't do Olympic TKD. So everytime a BJJ person tries to take me dwn the **** don't work. I tell BJJ ppl all the time that I don't have to go to the ground to defeat you.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
926
If you want to learn new stuff it's best to adopt the white belt mindset of being hungry for knowledge. Watching an interview with the Gracies discussing Rhonda Rousey's training with them, they lauded her for being a Black Belt with a white Belt mind set.

People may accept you as whatever. However, if you want to impress upon them that you are there to learn and your cup is empty, show up with a white belt on and let them tell you to where something else.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
If you want to learn new stuff it's best to adopt the white belt mindset of being hungry for knowledge. Watching an interview with the Gracies discussing Rhonda Rousey's training with them, they lauded her for being a Black Belt with a white Belt mind set.

People may accept you as whatever. However, if you want to impress upon them that you are there to learn and your cup is empty, show up with a white belt on and let them tell you to where something else.

100% agree. When learning a totally new thing, you need to go into it as a beginner. If you go in thinking you know already, you won't learn or grow. Forget about your past belts and accomplishments, they'll only hold you back.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,363
Reaction score
9,102
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Thats how it should be. If a person walks in with a BB from somewhere else you say ok no problem you just have to learn the curriculum. I guess thats why I never took a BJJ class. Cause they want you to start as a white belt and I always say no.
LOL!

I think that since azulx has a TKD avatar, is asking in the TKD sub-forum, and practices TKD, we've pretty much been responding to the inherent implication that the question related to people transferring between different TKD systems.

Were I to be a student in a totally unrelated art, such as BJJ, I would feel quite the fool wearing my TKD rank. Because there is simply no way in hell I could perform at that level of skill in a system so totally removed from TKD.

When I started joined the Moo Duk Kwan, I strapped on a white belt, even though both Master Valdez and the KJN said it wasn't necessary. For the same reason. I'd feel a fool standing up in the top ranks when I didn't know the curriculum for this system. Sure, since I was coming from a related background, it didn't take long to learn the curriculum, but as I've said many times, I'd rather wear a white belt and have people wonder why than wear a black belt and have people wonder why.

As I said, we will allow transfer students to wear their rank from other systems, if it makes them feel better. But it's been my personal experience that those who do so tend to have too much ego invested in that belt. Let's face it, when you go to a BJJ class, you are a white belt, regardless of what your ego tells you.

I can sort of see it, when they're transferring from a closely related system (say, ATA or ITF TKD), but certainly not if they are coming from something as totally different as BJJ.
 

Kinghercules

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
259
Reaction score
7
Location
Washington DC
I think that since azulx has a TKD avatar, is asking in the TKD sub-forum, and practices TKD, we've pretty much been responding to the inherent implication that the question related to people transferring between different TKD systems.

Were I to be a student in a totally unrelated art, such as BJJ, I would feel quite the fool wearing my TKD rank. Because there is simply no way in hell I could perform at that level of skill in a system so totally removed from TKD.

When I started joined the Moo Duk Kwan, I strapped on a white belt, even though both Master Valdez and the KJN said it wasn't necessary. For the same reason. I'd feel a fool standing up in the top ranks when I didn't know the curriculum for this system. Sure, since I was coming from a related background, it didn't take long to learn the curriculum, but as I've said many times, I'd rather wear a white belt and have people wonder why than wear a black belt and have people wonder why.

As I said, we will allow transfer students to wear their rank from other systems, if it makes them feel better. But it's been my personal experience that those who do so tend to have too much ego invested in that belt. Let's face it, when you go to a BJJ class, you are a white belt, regardless of what your ego tells you.

I can sort of see it, when they're transferring from a closely related system (say, ATA or ITF TKD), but certainly not if they are coming from something as totally different as BJJ.
I trained with Saotome in Aikido and he told me that I was a white belt in his system but that doesnt that my skills are null and void. But they excepted me as a black belt and recognized me as a black belt even though I was at a white belt level. I didnt walk around with a chip on my shoulder cause I knew that they had something I could learn. Im not denying that I would have a white belt level skills in BJJ if I took the class. Of course I would. But again that dosent negate all the years of training that I have accumulated to get my black belt. I dont care about BJJ. Im not impress by BJJ. I dont have to go to the ground to defeat a person. But anyway.......

I would think that excepting someone from a different school of TKD or style wouldnt be a big deal. Especially now a days. When you can just Google ppl. I seen that issue 1st had. There some guys I know that work for US Chung Do Kwan Association and the USCDKA didnt wanna except their 4th Dan certificate because it didnt come from the KKW or the USCDKA. They came from a different Chung Do Kwan school. I told them thats BS. I think thats disrespectful. Just my thoughts
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,337
Reaction score
8,070
Yeah. I could fo kudo. Show i have the basic concepts. Flog everybody in the room and get a black belt.
 

RTKDCMB

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
736
Location
Perth, Western Australia
No, when a black belt from another org comes to us they are learning a different system and they have to earn a black belt from us. Starting as a white belt is a test of character, shows humility and does not take away their previous accomplishments. If they have skills from previous training then they may progress more quickly. We have had black belts from other TKD styles that were not much more skilled than color belts.
 

Jaeimseu

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Messages
923
Reaction score
271
Location
Austin, Texas, USA
I'd allow anyone from another TKD/TSD style to wear their black belt, but like others stated, I wouldn't allow them to test for promotion until they learned our curriculum and adapted our way of doing techniques. If someone came from another style altogether, I'd start them at white belt, though if their previous style was a striking style and they picked things up exceptionally quick I'd allow quicker progression through the ranks.

I'd frankly be shocked if someone came in from judo or BJJ asking to start TKD and wear a black belt. I would never wear my TKD black belt for BJJ practice. One, because I'm not a BJJ black belt, and two, because I'd look pretty silly getting tapped out by all the "lower" ranking students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Wilde

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
In our Association, if you are already a black belt in another art, you can train in taekwondo or hapkido without having to go through the colored belts.

Easy way to say it is; you have one black belt and you want another, so you can train in hapkido or taekwondo for a year or more to black belt level and test for First Dan. Only draw back, you must where that style's colored belt uniform and a white belt while training.
 

Latest Discussions

Top