Captured Leaves

[donald]

Anyone familar with this technique? It seems to me to be one of the most improbable situational responses this side o'da mighty Mississippi. I would be especially interested in its origin. I have a theory, and would like to check it against its actual beginings. Thanks to all helpful parties.
Salute in Christ,

 

[Nightingale]

If I'm remembering this one correctly (and its been a while, so probably not), the attack is some kind of strange aikido police hold...

 

[jfarnsworth]

It's a right flank right two finger lock.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[phoenix]

Now, I havn't seen 'The Perfect Weapon' in a while, so I could be wrong on this. Isn't there a scene where someone grabs Jeff's shoulder, and he grabs their hand and rotates it up into what is basically the attack for Captured Leaves?

See, if only the bad guy knew Captured Leaves, it could have been a much shorter movie!

Sean

 

[donald]

Thanks for the input everyone, but where did this technique originate from? For example; I remember being told a story regarding the beginnings of "flashing mace". In part, Mr.Parker was leaning on a wall with his arm up high etc.,etc., and he fell into the technique from that position. I apologize for my ambiguity in the first post. Regarding what I was looking for. The reason for my interest is that I have a hard time seeing myself in this situation. Unless of course it is a response coming from an attempted lock of some sort? The way we've always practiced it, is'nt shall we say, condusive to understanding. Admittedly as a class we never stopped, and gave it a good going over. It just seemed to me to be one of those techniques you just shut up, and do...

Salute in Christ,
:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Hmmm, I was up in your area again over this past weekend I should have let you know in advance maybe we could have gotten together for lunch or something before I headed home. Anyway, I was going to post earlier that I believe this technique attack was a miss for some other attack. At the moment I'm drawing a blank on what it was supposed to be. From what I recall it may have been some kind of arm lock.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Michael Billings]

I have always done it as a defense against any come along techniques using finger locks.

Tom Kelly Sr. has an interesting story about his actually using the finger lock in question, very successfully many moons ago. Mr. Parker used to "problem solve" attacks brought to him by his "guys" back in the '60's, and someone may have actually had something like this tried on them ... or used it, then wanted to figure out how to get out of it?????

-Michael
UKS-Texas

 

[Kirk]

We had a discussion in my class about it, and I was told that
there's been some argument here and there over the years
relating to it.

As written, the attacker has your two fingers, and is standing
directly in front of you. Most people wonder how dumb you have
to be to let someone just walk up to you in the street grab your
two fingers as they lay at your sides, step back, and apply the
lock before you poke out his/her eye.

 

[WilliamTLear]

Somebody's not just going to walk up and do the finger grab to you on the street. It is a compliance grab that I have seen done many times by bouncers at nightclubs though.

There are two ways that I have seen it done. The finger grab is either prefixed by an attack, or a second person is distracting you while the primary attacker initiates the grab... In either case, knowing how to get out of that situation is a good thing. We aren't all supermen, are we? At least I know I'm human! And after a few beers, and kissing the bouncer's girlfriend (without knowing she was his girlfriend, ofcourse )... Who knows what could happen?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

Somebody's not just going to walk up and do the finger grab to you on the street. It is a compliance grab that I have seen done many times by bouncers at nightclubs though.

There are two ways that I have seen it done. The finger grab is either prefixed by an attack, or a second person is distracting you while the primary attacker initiates the grab... In either case, knowing how to get out of that situation is a good thing. We aren't all supermen, are we? At least I know I'm human! And after a few beers, and kissing the bouncer's girlfriend (without knowing she was his girlfriend, ofcourse )... Who knows what could happen?

Thanks for the info. I don't like repeating myself, but I also like
it known that I'm aware of how early I am in my journey. I don't
question squat, as far as "why do I hafta learn this?" ... I don't
like coming across like I'm an expert in anyway. Thanks for
responding to my curiosity.

 

[pablo]

This is a good technique for a come along. Coming up from someone's right flank, their arms swinging as they walk, and take hold, with your palm facing foreward, of their index and middle fingers, raising them up as you walk faster than him, the momentum of you passing him and raising his arm becoming the lock. This is why he must step to 2 oclock to cut off your advance. I think the tech calls for a knife hand between your wrist and his to break the lock. This works well to go between the wrists and counter-grab his wrist and suck your elbows in with his wrist, thus applying a counter lock as his wrist is also also pointing skyward, allowing a lock. This, when practiced correctly, is a very easy lock to apply, which makes it easy for law-enforcement to use for control as usually their techniques are not too-too involved or a major part of their training.
Does this make sense?

 

[GaryM]

You guys REALLY need to see Prof Wally Jays' Small circle jujitsu tapes. I gaurantee they will give you insites and enhance the Kenpo. G

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by donald
Anyone familar with this technique? It seems to me to be one of the most improbable situational responses this side o'da mighty Mississippi. I would be especially interested in its origin. I have a theory, and would like to check it against its actual beginings. Thanks to all helpful parties.
Salute in Christ,

It's an old DanZan Ryu Jiu-jitsu control hold quite common in the islands. Wally Jay uses it all the time. You should know how to counter it. The attack is from the flank.

 

[sumdumguy]

Originally posted by donald
Regarding what I was looking for. The reason for my interest is that I have a hard time seeing myself in this situation. Unless of course it is a response coming from an attempted lock of some sort? The way we've always practiced it, is'nt shall we say, condusive to understanding. Admittedly as a class we never stopped, and gave it a good going over. It just seemed to me to be one of those techniques you just shut up, and do...

Salute in Christ,
:asian:

I understand that you are looking for a bit of history to this technique, I believe Doc answered that one. So in my opinion the more important question is "what tools (principles and concepts)" does this technique aid us in understanding? Do the techniques "motion" really have to exist for any other reason than to teach us principles of motion that go far beyond the base technique and even the basic System of American Kenpo?
Have fun!!

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by GaryM
You guys REALLY need to see Prof Wally Jays' Small circle jujitsu tapes. I gaurantee they will give you insites and enhance the Kenpo. G

I concur, Dan Zan Ryu is great for your kenpo.

 

[sumdumguy]

fully understanding the elements with in the techniques will benefit you far greater. The one thing that everyone does is immediately (if they don't figure it out) is go to someone else (another system) to try to learn it... Use the Information your given to figure it out first then compare it with what the others have... Just my opinion..
have a nice Day!!:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by sumdumguy
fully understanding the elements with in the techniques will benefit you far greater. The one thing that everyone does is immediately (if they don't figure it out) is go to someone else (another system) to try to learn it... Use the Information your given to figure it out first then compare it with what the others have... Just my opinion..
have a nice Day!!:asian:

Happy birthday doornob!