Can you PREDICT your opponent?

[Jenna]

Coucou y’alls Is it possible to predict your opponent?

And I am not talking bout FAST REACTION to an existing strike. No, I have been wondering can we forsee a strike in that fraction when the opponent has made their mind to move and but the signal-to-muscle is still en route. I do not mean this in a big mystical way either. Is it possible to anticipate your opponent’s first move or next move just that fraction before he physically moves? Or can we at best react with a great speed? I think there is a difference. And I think an advantage to us exists if prediction of some kind is possible.

Me, I know it is not the same thing and but I can often predict next move in a chess match though only by opponent’s pattern of deployment or by virtue of opponent being a known quantity. I have read Bruce’s Tao of JKD and methods of interception, and but I do find it a little confusing in places. I have maybe a little adeptness with my hand already on an opponent, and it is then just possible to feel the balance change before uke deploys in earnest. I think I am reasonably fast at moving from stance to technique and can close distance or evade with a little speed. And but I cannot properly anticipate a free-standing opponent with no contact between us. React fast, yes. Anticipate, nope not quite. Can you do this? Is this even possible? If so, what are the cues to watch for, particularly:

~ how can you spot a simple jab-type punch before it is thrown?
~ how can you spot a simple front kick or side kick before it launches out?

If that is all rubbish or theoretical, pffft.. then I apologise in advance I am just asking. I would be very open to any opinions.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[terryl965]

I believe over time one can fore see what is coming next by body mechanics dueing your time of training. I know I can almost always see it before they throw it but only on certaiain occassion that I am able to beat them to the punch or kick mainly when I feel a sense of damage coming from it.

 

[stickarts]

you can tell how someone positions their body what their most likely strike(s) will be. For example, someone in a side stance has one set of likely strikes whereas someone standing facing you with toes pointing straight ahead has other techniques that are more likely. I think many of the greatest fighters become very good at reading the opponents body position and what will likely follow.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If your opponent is very poorly trained they will in many cases telegraph their intentions by body language. This is where experienced fighters 'see' the others moves before they even really start to do them.

The body language, called telegraphing or tells, may be such crude things swinging their arms 'wonder woman' fashon, or dropping their sholders before certian punches, or shifting their hip before doing a sidekick, or, well many other ovious tells.

Other include eye shifting, or holding their breath, hunching shoulders, moving their punching arm backwards before throwing the punch, etc...

Now more subtile ways is to sense when the other guy is imbalanced. When their footwork is out of time and for a second you can see they are about to not have a balances stance (and thus you attack when that occurs.)

Even more subtle ones are like when you can sense their will or their concentration has fallen off. That will lead to slow refleaxes if you attack.

There are many others but yes you can read your opponent if the skill level between opponents is great.

Deaf

 

[Rich Parsons]

Coucou y’alls Is it possible to predict your opponent?

And I am not talking bout FAST REACTION to an existing strike. No, I have been wondering can we forsee a strike in that fraction when the opponent has made their mind to move and but the signal-to-muscle is still en route. I do not mean this in a big mystical way either. Is it possible to anticipate your opponent’s first move or next move just that fraction before he physically moves? Or can we at best react with a great speed? I think there is a difference. And I think an advantage to us exists if prediction of some kind is possible.

Me, I know it is not the same thing and but I can often predict next move in a chess match though only by opponent’s pattern of deployment or by virtue of opponent being a known quantity. I have read Bruce’s Tao of JKD and methods of interception, and but I do find it a little confusing in places. I have maybe a little adeptness with my hand already on an opponent, and it is then just possible to feel the balance change before uke deploys in earnest. I think I am reasonably fast at moving from stance to technique and can close distance or evade with a little speed. And but I cannot properly anticipate a free-standing opponent with no contact between us. React fast, yes. Anticipate, nope not quite. Can you do this? Is this even possible? If so, what are the cues to watch for, particularly:

~ how can you spot a simple jab-type punch before it is thrown?
~ how can you spot a simple front kick or side kick before it launches out?

If that is all rubbish or theoretical, pffft.. then I apologise in advance I am just asking. I would be very open to any opinions.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

What is the saying BeetleJiuce three times calls someone? Well here goes. Dan Anderson, Dan Anderson, Dan Anderson, Let us see if he shows up.

I say this as he teaches a sparring seminar to help people "read" the opponent when they face off to spar. It is about body mechanics and understanding what can be done with the weapons at hand.

Now for me, I can many times predict where the opponent will be based upon knowing my open areas. I try to move to cover them, as I expect others to read my openings and to react to them. This is reactive or counter fighting in defense which can lead you to being able to time your counter strike.

 

[Kacey]

Depends on the opponent. As Deaf said, less-trained or untrained opponents are much more likely to telegraph their movement; more trained opponents are less likely to do so. There are situational factors as well. There's no straight, single answer to this question.

 

[punisher73]

In simple terms, "yes".

If you look at how your opponent is standing, how he is holding his hands and what he is presenting you will know which body weapons he is most likely to use.

Now, if you take a look at how you are standing what are you presenting as a target to them?

Then it becomes a matter of experience of looking at how the body moves. If they are REALLY going to throw a punch there will be movement prior to that. If they are very good at throwing a technique the movement will be minimal and also the time before the technique is launched/lands will be minimal as well.

The more experience you have the better you can read your opponent.

Although, I think we have all had an experience that we can't consciously explain where "we just knew" beforehand.

 

[Sukerkin]

In MJER, a great deal of the partner work is specifically targeted on strengthening the abilty to determine the intention of an attacker and reducing the 'signals' you give off about what you're going to do.

It's all part of zanshin and is why it is developed as a general awareness of the person in front of you rather than a strong focus on any one part of them.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Yes. As others have said body langauge is a great indicator.

If it is predicting on probability than it is a math formula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

 

[jarrod]

ok, i'm a little hesitant to tell this story for fear of ridicule, but here goes.

my kickboxing coach is also a high level kung fu & wu style tai chi practitioner. i've never trained kung fu with him but the brief time i spent studying tai chi with him has been very influential.

during tai chi practice, he would often emphasize feeling the "strings" of energy. i.e., as your right hand moves, a string of chi pulls the left one along behind it, as if the left is not moving but following a path. he told me that after quite some time in tai chi, he could feel his opponent's strings "pushing" before they moved. i tend to believe him, because he has amazing defense. (during the last full-contact fight i saw him in, his opponent didn't land a single blow in three rounds. he was 50 years old at the time).

anyway, he has a very powerful, off-tempo straight blast. i'll be sparring with him, next thing i know i feel like a freight train stopped just in front of me. one time we were sparring, & i swear to god i saw a flash of white light come from him. i thought "here it comes" & circled to his off-side just in time to see him go blasting by me. it only happened that one time, but it was enough to give me a very healthy respect for the martial applications of internal training.

 

[Shotochem]

In simple terms, "yes".

If you look at how your opponent is standing, how he is holding his hands and what he is presenting you will know which body weapons he is most likely to use.

Absolutely, by keeping at a specific angle and distance you can limit the options of your opponent.


Now, if you take a look at how you are standing what are you presenting as a target to them?

Baiting your opponet especially a lesser skilled or untraind one works quite well.

Then it becomes a matter of experience of looking at how the body moves. If they are REALLY going to throw a punch there will be movement prior to that. If they are very good at throwing a technique the movement will be minimal and also the time before the technique is launched/lands will be minimal as well.

The more experience you have the better you can read your opponent.



I can see many things coming at me I still get hit.


Although, I think we have all had an experience that we can't consciously explain where "we just knew" beforehand.

We all get lucky sometimes if we play the percentages.

 

[Jenna]

I believe over time one can fore see what is coming next by body mechanics dueing your time of training. I know I can almost always see it before they throw it but only on certaiain occassion that I am able to beat them to the punch or kick mainly when I feel a sense of damage coming from it.

Hey Terry I think it is interesting that you mention an impending "sense of damage". I have definitely become aware of a sharpening of the senses when I feel in most danger. I'm still not sure though about the actual specific body mechanics you mention. I mean, sure some crazy, drunken pub carpark punches have a big flag raised before they are thrown and but if you are faced with one of your TKD guys, in a simple front kick say, what moves first? Does he shift balance? Can you tell from his eyes? I am just intrigued at the possibility of being able to forsee in these terms. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

you can tell how someone positions their body what their most likely strike(s) will be. For example, someone in a side stance has one set of likely strikes whereas someone standing facing you with toes pointing straight ahead has other techniques that are more likely. I think many of the greatest fighters become very good at reading the opponents body position and what will likely follow.

Hey Frank Yes I see that. I see if your opponent is in a certain position then only a subset of his moves can be performed (like chess again). And but still, even if he is presenting his left leading side, he can still throw left or right punch and right kick etc.. What I wonder Frank, is what part of him moves first. What are the cues that he is about to let something loose?
Thank you,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

When their footwork is out of time and for a second you can see they are about to not have a balances stance

Hey Deaf Smith I found this statement intriguing and maybe if you call in again you would maybe have a little more to add?? Can you really pick up on out of time footwork? Is that possible? I am guessing that takes a lot of dedicated training?? Thank you

Now for me, I can many times predict where the opponent will be based upon knowing my open areas.

Hey Rich Do you ever deliberately leave areas open (like the chess pawn) hoping to draw your opponent in there? Yes, that is risky, but would help in predicting.. and though it is more of an entrapment scenario I think.. Thank you my friend

If they are REALLY going to throw a punch there will be movement prior to that.

Hey punisher73 thanks for your input. Can you tell me anything about the specific movements you might expect to see immediately before the punch or kick?? I would be interested to learn these things. Thank you again

Yes. As others have said body langauge is a great indicator.

If it is predicting on probability than it is a math formula.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

Hey JcA Thank you for this. I have read a little into kinesiology and kinesics and but again, can you tell me what in particular YOU would look for or expect to see in an opponent once they have decided to move, but have not quite moved.

Though I am avid for my mathematics, I am happy to leave the statistics (they usually only tell me I will lose!) Thank you again! You help is most welcome.

he told me that after quite some time in tai chi, he could feel his opponent's strings "pushing" before they moved.

Hey jarrod that is a cool retelling. And thank you for it!

It's all part of zanshin and is why it is developed as a general awareness of the person in front of you rather than a strong focus on any one part of them.

Hey Sukerkin my friend Do you have a concrete notion of what is meant by "a general awareness"? I am wondering what you would be looking for? I wonder by the time we see the opponent break into his move, did we simply miss the cue that preceded that move? If so, I wonder what was that cue? Can it be spotted prior to the move being made? I know all moves might surely have different prior flinches or whatever that is why I was just wondering about straight non-telegraphed punches or non-flamboyant kicks. Thank you again for your help with this

Thank you to all again I am endebted as always
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[terryl965]

Hey Terry I think it is interesting that you mention an impending "sense of damage". I have definitely become aware of a sharpening of the senses when I feel in most danger. I'm still not sure though about the actual specific body mechanics you mention. I mean, sure some crazy, drunken pub carpark punches have a big flag raised before they are thrown and but if you are faced with one of your TKD guys, in a simple front kick say, what moves first? Does he shift balance? Can you tell from his eyes? I am just intrigued at the possibility of being able to forsee in these terms. Thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Jenna position and angle of feet and wieght swfting at the hips are some sure tells for TKD people. Your body can only go so many direction and like in Basketball where the hips goes so does the rest of the body. Stand in a normal fighting stance and have apartner throw various kicks and punches at you and see how many time you can predict what is coming by simple body movements, before to long you will see it before they throw it. Try it and get back with me.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Things I look for depend on the situation of course.

If you are fighting someone who is holding a weapon than the chances go up on the probability of the opponent using the knife.

If the person is with a friend chances go up the friend will enter the fight.

All of these are methods of predicting. By noticing defaults or strenghs in an opponent we can predict how he will shield it or use it to his advantage.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hey Rich Do you ever deliberately leave areas open (like the chess pawn) hoping to draw your opponent in there? Yes, that is risky, but would help in predicting.. and though it is more of an entrapment scenario I think.. Thank you my friend

Thank you to all again I am endebted as always
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Jenna,

Yes, I leave myself open all the time. I do it for those I am training with so they can learn to read and take advantage. Once they take advantage I then cover it up and give them something else. To do this is hard, one has to consciously choose to do it and recognize it or it may become a "Bad Habit".

I also use it to bait people.

Thanks

 

[diamondbar1971]

IMO, i think that being able to predict is an absolute addition to ones personal arsenol, and this will become more obvious as we get older and need to compensate for that little half step we all will eventually lose...

 

[tshadowchaser]

Is it possible for me to anticipate my opponents moves? YES, but I have been reading body movement for a long time now. Dose that mean I will always be fast enough to avoid the movement? NO, I have gotten older and slower

 

[Jenna]

Jenna position and angle of feet and wieght swfting at the hips are some sure tells for TKD people. Your body can only go so many direction and like in Basketball where the hips goes so does the rest of the body. Stand in a normal fighting stance and have apartner throw various kicks and punches at you and see how many time you can predict what is coming by simple body movements, before to long you will see it before they throw it. Try it and get back with me.

Hey Terry Thank you very much for this. I have tried what you suggested and but I still wonder if the best that can be achieved is a very fast reaction to a punch or kick that is ALREADY out there?? And which is not quite the same as predicting just that moment before it goes. Maybe I just do not have the skill for it. I tried something recently and I wonder have you ever had your training partner fake a move to see if you could predict what he was planning. I found leading-hand jabs impossible to recognise. For other moves I have noticed slight hip movements and was at least able to foresee which side the shot was coming from. Best I seem to be able to do is to have my training partner to fake a move and then manage to point to the correct limb that he was thinking of launching out! And I am at best, 50% accurate. Tell me you can predict more accurately and I will take heart that I am not wasting my time with this...
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna